Obama Death Panels

[Ms Tree]

Yes it is and it existed before the national health care bill was passed and this still has nothing to do with your statement that no one dies in this country because of lack of money. Two people have died due to lack of money. Nothing you have said proves other wise.

 

[dapoes]

Yes it is and it existed before the national health care bill was passed and this still has nothing to do with your statement that no one dies in this country because of lack of money. Two people have died due to lack of money. Nothing you have said proves other wise.

I already admitted you were right. 2 people died due to socialized health care. Its a damn shame it happens but thats what you get when you depend on the gov for your every need.

Is that not what you have been championing for? Seriously you really need to figure out what side of the fence you are on.

 

[Ms Tree]

That's not what you said and I am tired of arguing with you.

 

[dapoes]

That's not what you said and I am tired of arguing with you.

You should have thought a litter deeper before you posted the article. You read it as US healthcare bad rah rah. In reality it shows what happens under socialized medicine. Its not surprising, stuff like this happens all the time at county hospitals, etc. And yet you are a big cheerleader for more of it?

 

[dapoes]

 

[Veritas]

The real death panels are in states with Republican administrations such as Arizona and Indiana.

Washington Post

In Arizona, the government headed by Gov. Jan Brewer summarily stopped approving Medicaid payments for many organ transplants in October; one man had a liver virtually snatched away while he waited to go into the operating room. He couldn't get it unless he came up with $200,000 to pay for the procedure.

In Indiana, the state Medicaid program denied a lifesaving operation last year to a 6-month-old boy who lacked a thymus gland, which generates cells that the body uses to fight infection. The Indiana Family Social Services Administration said the procedure was "experimental" - even though it had been successful in 43 of the 60 cases in which it had been applied. The state twice denied the family's appeals, but fortunately the publicity caused by this case prodded two health-care companies to pay for the $500,000 operation.

These are real death panels. They are far from the Affordable Care Act's provision for end-of-life counseling for families to enable them to make rational decisions about their loved ones outside of the awful stress in a hospital or hospice.

 

[dapoes]

The real death panels are in states with Republican administrations such as Arizona and Indiana.

Washington Post

Again as a result of socialized medicine (Obamacare). The fed isnt going to send them anymore money, the states are broke, so there you have it.

This is your future under Obamacare and socialized medicine.

 

[Ms Tree]

We have one of the more advanced health care systems in the world yet it is becoming more and more difficult to obtain service from this system if one has no insurance and no funds for emergency, much less preventive care.

I think there is a possibility that the more cases such as the ones posted above that come up, people may start to realize that people are dying because of a health care coverage catastrophe. There are not too many people who have $200k sitting around for a rainy day.

Cost has to be the next thing Congress deals with in terms of health care. There is no reason a person should not receive life saving measures due to lack of funds. When more and more people die as a result of being to poor to afford care, may be people will wake up.

 

[dapoes]

We have one of the more advanced health care systems in the world yet it is becoming more and more difficult to obtain service from this system if one has no insurance and no funds for emergency, much less preventive care.

I think there is a possibility that the more cases such as the ones posted above that come up, people may start to realize that people are dying because of a health care coverage catastrophe. There are not too many people who have $200k sitting around for a rainy day.

Cost has to be the next thing Congress deals with in terms of health care. There is no reason a person should not receive life saving measures due to lack of funds. When more and more people die as a result of being to poor to afford care, may be people will wake up.

Its already happening as a result of Obamacare. Doctors are leaving the industry, Hospitals are shutting down, longer wait times for procedures.

Happy now?

 

[dapoes]

Obamacare to Result in HMO-Style Care

According to her bio, Caroline Poplin is a physician, a health care policy expert, and a visiting fellow at the liberal Center for American Progress. In the journal Health Affairs, she argues that the end result of Obamacare is likely to be an increase in the amount of medical care done by hospital-affiliated medical groups, and reduced access to a personal doctor. This is a result of a greater focus on the bottom line, and greater effort to cut costs:

In the future envisioned by the health policy community, including the leadership of the Amercian College of Physicians and the American Medical Association, patients who want a personal physician, someone they know and trust, who understands and cares about them as individuals will have to pay extra for “concierge” care. Everyone else will migrate to team care from large “Accountable Care Oranizations” (accountable to whom, one may ask—certainly not the patients). These teams may well improve patients’ blood pressures, glucose control, lipid panels, maybe even weight, and indeed improve the outcomes of patients whose outcomes can be improved. Their care will be efficient: providers (yes, providers) who do not see enough patients, whose patients do not improve adequately, who order too many tests, do not meet the fifteen criteria for meaningful use of EHRs, or do not continuously pursue quality improvement projects, will see their incomes fall…

I am a Board-certified general internist. I worked for many years for just such an Accountable Care Organization. It was factory work: we were interchangeable cogs in a vast machine. The people who saw patients, especially “primary care providers” like me, were at the base of the pyramid and the bottom of the pecking order.

The future is clear. The management of the ACO — professional administrators, and physicians who see few if any patients — will schedule every moment of every primary provider’s day, critique every decision, continually scrutinize and evaluate every aspect of one’s practice. At my ACO, yes, we were on teams, but given no time to communicate with one another. We were forced to complete clunky electronic records we had no time to read. Despite years of training and experience, we had no input to the system that controlled our lives. We were not respected as professionals. It was demoralizing.

If one is concerned about a “shift work” mentality in medicine, surely it develops not in residents who get more sleep, but in physicians who can only survive by meeting ever-higher “performance goals” set by others.

When Congress passed Obamacare, they didn’t advertise that this would be a likely outcome.

 

[southwind]

But Obama knows people with real "Lab Coats" !

 

[Ms Tree]

I guess now we will see if the republicans can come up with ideas to fix the health care system as opposed to just trying to repeal the changes and go back the tbe broken status quo. Time to put the ideas on the table.

 

[delldude]

The real death panels are in states with Republican administrations such as Arizona and Indiana.

Washington Post

Nice try but however you want to gloss over the issue.....your pukes on your side of the aisle are already on record supporting rationing of health care options to save money which is what the death panel issue is all about on the Federal level. Nice try though.

 

[Ms Tree]

Nice try but however you want to gloss over the issue.....your pukes on your side of the aisle are already on record supporting rationing of health care options to save money which is what the death panel issue is all about on the Federal level. Nice try though.

Can you please post those records. I am pretty sure I missed those comments and if any of them are in my district, I want to make sure I do not vote for them.

 

[delldude]

Here's some the clowns in the administration:

Donald Berwick has expressed his support for a health care plan which “redistribute wealth from the richer among us to the poorer”; he does talk about how he’s “romantic” about Britain’s National Heath System; he expresses his strong support for “rationing with our eyes open.” In fact, in quoting at length trying to provide some wiggle room or context for these quotes, MMFA actually makes Berwick seem worse!

You may recognize the name, and not know why. The MMFA author, who evidently didn’t, quotes at length from Dr. Singer’s piece in support of health care rationing in the New York Times: “The debate over health care reform in the United States should start from the premise that some form of health care rationing is both inescapable and desirable. Then we can ask, What is the best way to do it?”

Dr. Singer is, of course, most well known for his support of non-voluntary euthanasia and infanticide for disabled infants, or just because the parents feel like it. I’m not exaggerating — he makes no bones about his support for infanticide and has written multiple books and essays on the subject, arguing essentially that while animals are self-conscious beings, newborns and people who suffer from diseases such as Alzheimer’s aren’t — so they lack the quality of personhood which prevents us from killing them. In Singer’s 1993 book, he wrote:

To take the lives of [self conscious people], without their consent, is to thwart their desires for the future. Killing a snail or a day-old infant does not thwart any desires of this kind, because snails and newborn infants are incapable of such desires.

In Singer’s 1996 book, he wrote:

Human babies are not born self-aware, or capable of grasping that they exist over time. They are not persons. Hence their lives would seem to be no more worthy of protection than the life of a fetus.

My link

From Obama's top health care adviser:

One of their most-cited examples is a 1996 article Dr. Emanuel wrote in the bioethics journal Hastings Center Report. Exploring which medical services should be guaranteed to all Americans, Dr. Emanuel cited an approach that would favor active people, adding, "An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia."

From the present administration:

The White House forcefully defends Dr. Emanuel, saying he is an academic who explores tough questions surrounding life and death.

Of course, Emanuel with his back to the wall now claims he didn't mean none of that.

My link

Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman was on The Week with Christiane Amanpour and spoke out on what was needed to solve the US debt crisis.

Some years down the pike, we're going to get the real solution, which is going to be a combination of death panels and sales taxes. It's going to be that we're actually going to take Medicare under control, and we're going to have to get some additional revenue, probably from a VAT. But it's not going to happen now."

The Obama healthcare plan passed by Congress in 2010 includes government-run healthcare committees with sweeping powers, including the power to engage in competitive pricing and cost analysis, a system Britain uses that has led to rationing of medical care for the elderly. - Newsmax.com

Continue reading on Examiner.com: Nobel Prize winning economist Krugman stands up in support of death panels - National Finance Examiner | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/finance-examiner-in-national/nobel-prize-winning-economist-krugman-stands-up-support-of-death-panels#ixzz1BIoBISC9