Obama Death Panels

[Ms Tree]

Donald Berwick

"The decision is not whether or not we will ration care, he told an interviewer according to the Associated Press. "The decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly."

Does not seem to support what you are implying. Care is already rationed by insurance companies. All he seems to be saying is that we need to examine the way they are doing it and make it far more egalitarian and rational. With that I agree. It remains to be seen how it is going to be implemented.

Dr Singer

Not sure what his status is in the US legislature or administration. I have not seen any legislatures or congress members supporting such ideas. Just because someone speaks out in support of someone else does not mean that the support is desired or agreed with. I would imagine there are some serous nut jobs who support republican ideals but these people are not representative of the republican party as a whole. The abortion doctor killers come to mind.

Ezekiel Emanuel

I did hear about him. Seems like he is posing questions that need to be addressed. As mentioned above rationing is already being done. Two people have already died due to rationing of funds. We may not like it but he does make a valid point. There are finite resources in terms of funds and organs. We do need to establish a better priority and use of the funds. We may not like to speak of death but if someone is terminal, are we going to use precious resources or use those resources on some one who has a future? Those are very hard questions to ask.

Paul Krugman

He is a talking head. He has spoken out in favor of sweat shops as opposed to unemployment, spoken out against min wage to name just a few things. I am not clear what he has to do with this conversation.


So you found two so far that are advocating that we need to look at how health care is administered. The implication of the 'death panles' that the opposition seems to advocate is not what these folks are advocating at all. There are finite resources and they need to be managed better.

 

[delldude]

So you found two so far that are advocating that we need to look at how health care is administered. The implication of the 'death panles' that the opposition seems to advocate is not what these folks are advocating at all. There are finite resources and they need to be managed better.

No...there's quite a bit more than two. I just get tired of continually spoon feeding you.
You live in a cave or something?

 

[Ms Tree]

No...there's quite a bit more than two. I just get tired of continually spoon feeding you.
You live in a cave or something?

No I do not live in a cave. People are talking about how to better manage our failing health care system. There comes a time in a persons life where they cannot be cured. It happened to my mother and to my wife's mother. Hospitals keep wanting to try and fix what cannot be fixed because they get money for it. With my mom, it came to the point where we said no. You are not going to keep throwing test after test, procedure after procedure when it will do not good and reduce her quality of of life. We had to let her go. We made her comfortable and let her go. My wife was not so fortunate. Her father never asked the questions that needed to be asked, the hospital and doctors never said hey look, none of this will work. Her systems are failing and there is nothing that can be done. She suffered till the end and that was uncalled for.

No one is advocating any type of death panel. No one is saying we are just going to off people randomly because we do not want to give them care. People are talking about making decisions based on what is best for the individual. The term death panels and all the BS that is going with it is just that BS and fear mongering.

We can deny there is a problem with the health care system in this country all we want but at some point we will need to address it. Hopefully it will not be too late. Look at the number of people taking surgery vacations. It is increasing every year. People are doing that for a reason.

Dell, do me a favor and back off on the jabs. We already have one such individual on this board who makes the veiled insults and jabs who I have chosen to ignore. We have a difference of opinion, no reason we cannot be civil and respect each other. OK?

 

[dapoes]

No I do not live in a cave. People are talking about how to better manage our failing health care system. There comes a time in a persons life where they cannot be cured. It happened to my mother and to my wife's mother. Hospitals keep wanting to try and fix what cannot be fixed because they get money for it. With my mom, it came to the point where we said no. You are not going to keep throwing test after test, procedure after procedure when it will do not good and reduce her quality of of life. We had to let her go. We made her comfortable and let her go. My wife was not so fortunate. Her father never asked the questions that needed to be asked, the hospital and doctors never said hey look, none of this will work. Her systems are failing and there is nothing that can be done. She suffered till the end and that was uncalled for.

No one is advocating any type of death panel. No one is saying we are just going to off people randomly because we do not want to give them care. People are talking about making decisions based on what is best for the individual. The term death panels and all the BS that is going with it is just that BS and fear mongering.

We can deny there is a problem with the health care system in this country all we want but at some point we will need to address it. Hopefully it will not be too late. Look at the number of people taking surgery vacations. It is increasing every year. People are doing that for a reason.

Dell, do me a favor and back off on the jabs. We already have one such individual on this board who makes the veiled insults and jabs who I have chosen to ignore. We have a difference of opinion, no reason we cannot be civil and respect each other. OK?

Translation: I will have to ignore you when I have nothing to defend my socialists-liberal-progressive-nihilist views. Sniff sniff.

 

[delldude]

It is going to come down to money and the ability to pay for services/treatments.

The government will not waste money on various procedures. Obama is already on record with such things as "grandma can take a pill" regarding hip surgery or " we will have to make a democratic decision" like its time to die.
Many older people will have life extending treatments available but will be denied due to their age and their ability to contribute to society.
Do some research into progressives and how they see things.

Progressives see older people as not contributing but taking from society....burdens on society. All the young smacks are all for that.......now.

All this info is out there if you want to look for it. (jab)

 

[Ms Tree]

And conservatives only wany grandma to get the new hip if she can pay for it. I think it is more accurate to say that progressivs want eveyone to have access to life saving measures but realize that resources are limited. Some folks have to be denied service and rathr than base acess on the abiliy to pay, it should be based on need and viability.

 

[Ms Tree]

And conservatives only wany grandma to get the new hip if she can pay for it. I think it is more accurate to say that progressivs want eveyone to have access to life saving measures but realize that resources are limited. Some folks have to be denied service and rathr than base acess on the abiliy to pay, it should be based on need and viability.

 

[delldude]

And conservatives only wany grandma to get the new hip if she can pay for it. I think it is more accurate to say that progressivs want eveyone to have access to life saving measures but realize that resources are limited. Some folks have to be denied service and rathr than base acess on the abiliy to pay, it should be based on need and viability.

You have a strange way of looking at the issue. Elderly do not contribute to the collective good for the betterment of the masses, instead they draw down on the resources available for the working/contributing class that deserves quality HC because they will continue to contribute to the betterment and collective good of the working class, that is until they too become a burden on the resources.

Wake up.

You have no idea what a true progressive is.

 

[Ms Tree]

I never said that. If you have one pair of lungs and you have a healthy 18yr old and a healthy 60 yr old. Who gets the organ?

Trandplants are rationed already. The person who is in most need and has the most use gets it. Not the bestbsystem but the fairest given a finite set of resources.

Not everyone van be saved. Less so with finote resourses. If you want to throw more money at the sgstem they can save more. If you want to deal with the cost of care then they can save mors. Keeping the system as it is, more peoepel will die.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Elderly do not contribute to the collective good for the betterment of the masses, instead they draw down on the resources available for the working/contributing class that deserves quality HC because they will continue to contribute to the betterment and collective good of the working class, that is until they too become a burden on the resources.

You speak fluent gobbletygook.

 

[delldude]

You speak fluent gobbletygook.

And whats your excuse?

 

[delldude]

I never said that. If you have one pair of lungs and you have a healthy 18yr old and a healthy 60 yr old. Who gets the organ?

Trandplants are rationed already. The person who is in most need and has the most use gets it. Not the bestbsystem but the fairest given a finite set of resources.

Not everyone van be saved. Less so with finote resourses. If you want to throw more money at the sgstem they can save more. If you want to deal with the cost of care then they can save mors. Keeping the system as it is, more peoepel will die.

Who talking transplants.....??

You ok?

 

[Ms Tree]

Who talking transplants.....??

You ok?

I was using it as an example of 'rationing'. Yes I am fine.

 

[Dog Wonder]

And whats your excuse?

Sanity.

 

[delldude]

Sanity.

Relative to what?