I think putting the EMBs on the BOS-LGA leg is a good move. The aircraft is very comfortable and is now almost as reliable as an Airbus. It doesn't have the carry on bag space of an Airbus, but with the low load factors the bags that shouldn't be too big of a problem. One big difference wiht US vs. DL on this route is that DL will operate with a contract carrier and US will be mainline.
NYT article on the Shutte
- Thread starter Dont call me Shirley
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ClueByFour
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Who are these people who these planes are popular with? If they are upgrading from a CRJ or EMB-135/145, yeah. Not from an Airbus. The overhead space is not there and if you don't get on early, you end up with a gate checked bag on the -170 and -190.
WhatBag?
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- Apr 29, 2008
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Hummm...loads of 35, 45, 65, passengers on average. Yup, the E190 is the perfect fit. he entitled NY traveler needs to get a grip. The airline industry doesn't have an endless pit of money just for their needs alone. The E190 is a comfortable a/c that I have gotten MANY positive remarks about. Perhaps they all forget hoe LOUD the 727's were.
BoeingBoy
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A big difference for the mainline pilots and FA for sure, and maybe the other mainline employees at BOS/LGA depending on what the company does in respect to them with the BOS/LGA base closures. For the passengers, not a big difference. I'd be extremely surprised if even 1% made the DL vs US Shuttle decision on whether mainline or a contract carrier operates the flight.
Jim
Travelpro72
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- Jan 30, 2005
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I think placing the E190 on the shuttle routes is the smartest move this company has made in a long time. It's comfortable for passengers on flights of shuttle length. There is limited galley space which is also fine for flight attendants on routes so short. As for bags, I have flown that plane all over the system and if bags need to be checked towards the end of boarding there may be 5 at best. Top that with the fact that you can place a full rollerboard under seats since there is no divider and many business passengers on the shuttle don't have huge bags. I believe the US shuttle operated with E190's will give Delta a run for their money. 
The E190’s are being sold the ones that are left might not be viable to kept around. I’m sure republic would fit right in with the E170/75 and MAYBE the E190 and there airbus’s. I can see management playing the game again with the pilots. Take what we offer or we are going to sell. We need the money bad
Yep my point is the e170/175 is a mainline aircraft not a RJ therefore should be flowed my mainline pilots …………….but the pilots scope allows mainline aircraft to be flow by a contract carrier. And I do blame the pilots for weak scope with no trigger for work being brought back in
Like it was stated before, our customers like the airplanes. The only problem is bin space like you stated. From my experience if the f/a's are active during the boarding process assisting customers with properly stowing large bags in the bins and smaller backpacks, briefcases, laptops and such under the seat there really isn't much of a bag issue. You can even fit a 21" bag under the coach seats. Now if you have a f/a that just hangs out in the galley chatting on the phone, doing bids or riding the bid sheet you're going to have a problem on a full flight.
I really don't see much of a baggage issue on these flights if current pax load trends continue. If the A319's are currently filling up 50% of the seats (62 seats) per flight then it seems like the E190 is a perfect fit. And 62 people on an E190 is cake for bags.
BoeingBoy
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So your concern is only for the pilots? I'm touched, but have to wonder why you don't have that same concern for the other employee groups that have allowed mainline jobs to be contracted out...
I would note that both the big expansion in numbers and size of planes that has been allowed came under the threat of bankruptcy and having the entire contract abrogated, with only the last size increase due to the merger. And that the US pilots had much tighter scope language than some other pilot groups for a good while.
Jim
Jim the 1% market share advantage that has always been there since inception has always been DL/US. If you throw Amtrak Acela in the mix I am sure the numbers would be somewhere in the range of 60% Amtrack 20% DL 20%US. Amtrak in these markets has done serious damage to the Shuttle market overall on both the DL and US side . Even AMR pulled out with the RJ Eagle option. They tried playing playing hardball with corporate accounts threatening to not give deals in other markets unless their accounts used the Eagle flights on the Shuttle. The accounts started sending their employees by rail.
BoeingBoy
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I agree with everything you said, and that is somewhat what I meant to convey. I don't think that having mainline operated E190's on some of the Shuttle flights vs DL's use of contractor operated E170's will affect the market share split in the Shuttle markets much if any at all. The 1% I mentioned was my guesstimate of the maximum percentage of Shuttle passengers that would be influenced to choose US because of the mainline/contractor factor. It will probably be a much smaller percentage than that and and most likely not make a difference.
Your info really provides support for my opinion - US Shuttle flights are currently all mainline operated while DL currently has contractor operated flights, yet the market shares are basically equal. AA also demonstrated what could make a difference - small RJ's with no FC vs larger (and more comfortable) planes with FC.
Jim
I can see management playing the game again with the pilots. Take what we offer or we are going to sell. Putting jobs on the line. The shuttle is just a pawn I think USSAP is a different animal the company is not use to a in house union whereas ALPA was predicable
Jim,
I doubt too many passengers even know who operates a flight, but the operating stats for US vs. US Express show a higher reliability with the mainline. I don't believe that any Express carriers are CATII certified. On Thanksgiving Day there was 1 mainline cancellation and 76 at Express, I believe mainly for this reason. CLT was below Cat I and the Express operation was, well, to be kind, a zoo.
BoeingBoy
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Maybe I interpreted you post wrongly - I thought you were saying that mainline operating US shuttle flights provided an advantage over DL because a contractor operated some of their flights. If you were saying that mainline operating US Shuttle flights was better than having a contractor operate some of those US Shuttle flights, then I agree with you. Not so much because of the CAT II issue (how often is that really an issue?) but because of not having FC in US Express operated planes.
A couple of things you do need to consider with respect to Express on time stats, unless you've got access to info I don't - is that what is reported in the daily newsletter is for the Express operation as a whole. A specific Express operator could have better or worse on time stats than reported. Also, dispatch has the ability to swap ETD's between flights when there are delays, so how much of the difference comes from mainline getting preference in making those swaps?
Jim
