Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

And our reps will not be presenting the DOH list.
 
That is correct, no more free rides, that lottery ticket was cashed a long time ago, no more delaying justice.

Mitch Vaselino super lawyer gave bad advice at River Wye. Super lawyer Eric Ferguson failed to negotiate with Cleary in Texas. Super lawyers Koontz and Ferguson discuss un merged lists going into a yet unforeseen AMR merger. Super Lawyer Marty flunked RLA discussion in law school.
Lottery ticket. Correct description. Super lawyers fail to cash it, just as Scott Kirby forsaw.

 

[Claxon]

RR bragged that Hummell and the company secretly agreed to retro pay but held out until "playing" the reps that were holding out (negotiating) for more. Now Hummell is trying to claim DC reps grew a spine? That isn't a lie.. It's outright buffoonery!

RR is just another buffoon. He ran like a coward.

 

[Claxon]

What happened before 2 of the 3 justices said the case was not ripe? Guess what, it's ripe now.
Here's the part you left out.
Court finds USAPA Breached Duty of Fair Representation to Former America West Pilots
by:
Ford & Harrison LLP - Atlanta Office
August 21, 2009
A federal court in Arizona recently entered an order requiring the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA) to negotiate in good faith for a single contract including an arbitrated seniority list for all 5,200 pilots at US Airways following the airline's 2005 merger with America West. See Addington v. US Airline Pilot's Ass'n (July 17, 2009). The court entered the order after a jury found that USAPA breached its duty of fair representation to former America West pilots by abandoning an arbitrated seniority list in favor of a date-of-hire list.
This case arose out of the 2005 merger of America West with US Airways. At the time of the merger, there were approximately 5,100 pilots on the US Airways seniority list ("East pilots") and approximately 1,900 pilots on the America West seniority list ("West pilots"). Both pilot groups were represented by ALPA from the time of the merger until April 2008.
ALPA's merger representatives were unable to reach an agreement on integration of the pilot seniority lists and the issue ultimately was submitted to an arbitration panel. The arbitration panel's award placed 500 senior East pilots at the top of the list because of their experience with wide body international aircraft that America West did not operate before the merger. It placed approximately 1,700 East pilots who were furloughed at the time of the merger at the bottom of the list because of their diminished career expectations. Then it blended the remainder of the East Pilot list with the West Pilot list generally according to the relative position of the pilots on their original lists.
After the arbitration award was issued, a group of East pilots who were unhappy with the award formed USAPA. USAPA was certified as the representative of the East and West pilots in April 2008. In September 2008, USAPA submitted a seniority proposal to the airline, which was substantially less favorable to the West pilots than the arbitration award. The company continued to operate under two seniority lists and furloughed approximately 175 West pilots who would not have been furloughed under the terms of the arbitration award's seniority list.
Subsequently, six furloughed West pilots sued USAPA alleging the union breached its duty of fair representation. Ruling in favor of the pilots, the court found that USAPA breached its duty of fair representation because its sole object in adopting and presenting its seniority proposal to the airline was to benefit the East pilots at the expense of the West pilots. The court held that USAPA failed to prove that any legitimate union objective motivated its acts.
Rejecting USAPA's argument that the pursuit of date-of-hire seniority principles automatically legitimates its actions, the court noted that the significance of date-of-hire seniority varies from one labor negotiation to the next. Here, the court found that the union's "date-of-hire agenda is just a means of changing the arbitrated outcome for no purpose other than to favor the majority."
Further, the court held that that the union's claim that its seniority proposal was necessary to get a single CBA was pretextual, finding that the evidence showed that any asserted impasse was a pretext for bare favoritism of the East Pilots. Additionally, court held that even if an impasse did exist, it would not justify USAPA's actions as a matter of law. "Majority opposition does not defeat the duty of fair representation; the duty exists to restrain the majority."
The court entered an injunction ordering USAPA to make all reasonable efforts to negotiate and implement a single CBA with US Airways implementing the arbitration award seniority proposal and to defend the seniority rights arising from the arbitration award. Additionally, the court prohibited USAPA from negotiating for separate CBAs for the separate pilot groups.

Hey Idiot. That was the trial that was erased.

 

[Freighterguynow]

"
 
You get what you brought the table...furloughed F/O guy in 2005.

You fly 24% of your block hours on East routes ... should be furloughed West 2013.

The APA must be well aware 400 + West pilots no longer have jobs to bring. So much easier to put them on American routes in DFW and LAX than the East coast.

 

[snapthis]

Seniority Does Matter
SENIORITY DOES MATTER
By: Mark King

Reads in part.....
Our PHL and CLT Reps. cut a back room deal with PHX, that if they would vote to recall Gary (something they have not been willing to do) they would throw Steve out with him, in order to get their votes. That is exactly what happened. Just when we finally put the NIC to bed, our own CLT and PHL reps sold out to the West Class who will now vote in a block to bring the NIC back.
Take a look at these six names:
Bob Frear- Quit the NAC
Paul DiOrio- Fired from the NAC
Ron Nelson - Fired from the ALPA Negotiating Committee
Courtney BormanFired From P4P and Membership Services
Paul Music
John Taylor

Here's a few responses from West pilots:

Does seniority matter if it is achieved at the expense of one's integrity? Not Mr. King, or any other East pilot speaking for or against the recall has viewed the West as an ally. In fact, the West is still viewed as USAPA's opponent.

Mr. King, in regards to your own closing sentence, it is you who can go to ****.


No, AWA saved your career. Seniority just meant you would have been late to the job fair at Home Depot..

NONE of this really matters. The APA will soon rule the day, and THAT is the future for us all.

USAPA SUCKS !!! The people of USAPA SUCK!!! And ANY consternation to the contrary is simple whistling in the dark to keep from being afraid.

These a$$holes will NEVER STOP. It is in their DNA to be contrary and difficult....they simply don't know anything else. Look forward to many years of dysfunctional crap from them as APA domicile reps....because YOU KNOW....the same idiotic mentality will surface no matter what alphabet soup is leading the charge..

Sent to BPR and Officers:

"Mr. King seems to have upped his rhetoric. By his own admission he "violently" disagrees with others; he makes (in my opinion), veiled threats against those who want to see Bradford recalled; like former CLT Chairman Bill McKee, Mr. King labels any dissent as "traitors;" and lastly, Mr. King says that six "small-minded" East pilots can "go to helll."

No longer are East pilots boasting of "supreme confidence" or "victory." Today they are again trying top cut their losses, and stop the bleeding. Maybe Bradford and Hummel will be amputated, maybe not. That's probably for the unified West to decide.

Tensions are indeed escalating out East. Mr King seems especially uptight. Let's hope everyone keeps their cool, uses Pro. Standards, CIRP, HIMS, and other resources to prevent things from getting any more out of hand. Maybe an East pilot should give Mr. King a call, just to make sure he's got himself under control, and to make sure others don't feel threatened by Mr. King's threats and rhetoric.

Judge Silver's gonna rule soon, and I'd hate to see any East pilot act out, or be the victim of any East-on-East aggression or violence as happened with S/T Streble and VP Mowery when Streble was injured after being shoved by Mowery into a metal door frame.

 

[snapthis]

Hey Idiot. That was the trial that was erased.

Not erased just delayed. Remember that the 9th said bring it back and we did.

We're going to dog you, sue you, make you miserable til Hell freezes over and when the lawsuits are over we'll make sure you stay in your place.

 

[luvthe9]

We're going to dog you, sue you, make you miserable til Hell freezes over and when the lawsuits are over we'll make sure you stay in your place.

Are you the guy in the video that's says he hates the east? Happy New Year son.  Such anger issues,  we are quite happy out here.!!

 

[nevergiveup]

Not erased just delayed. Remember that the 9th said bring it back and we did.

We're going to dog you, sue you, make you miserable til Hell freezes over and when the lawsuits are over we'll make sure you stay in your place.

Still trying to use pilots down on their luck as a stepping stone to advance your career. Such integrity! 

 

[Claxon]

Not erased just delayed. Remember that the 9th said bring it back and we did.
We're going to dog you, sue you, make you miserable til Hell freezes over and when the lawsuits are over we'll make sure you stay in your place.

Yes, you sue. Unsuccessfully. The rest? East pilots seem quite content with separate ops, massive upgrades and raises. You cannot even use that anymore.
Your place is PHX, with stagnant growth. And you kept yourselves in that place. All by yourselves.

 

[luvthe9]

Yes, you sue. Unsuccessfully. The rest? East pilots seem quite content with separate ops, massive upgrades and raises. You cannot even use that anymore.
Your place is PHX, with stagnant growth. And you kept yourselves in that place. All by yourselves.

The westies were led astray by Ferguson and Koontz, these two are to blame for all the west problems. All the millions they owe Marty.

 

[luvthe9]

Well guess who is the new head of the ballot committee, from what we here, Mark King, aka RR and joevotesno. Imagine him counting ballots for Hummel and we are paying for this? I guess that's why he's says off the board.

 

[snapthis]

Are you the guy in the video that's says he hates the east? Happy New Year son.  Such anger issues,  we are quite happy out here.!!

Not anger, just letting you know how it's going to go.

 

[luvthe9]

Not anger, just letting you know how it's going to go.

In your dreams JJ, might want to get part time job to pay for that home that's under water. Stagnation son. Raises and so many upgrades out east.

 

[nevergiveup]

Not anger, just letting you know how it's going to go.

How much has the TWA group collected thus far?

 

[traderjake]

Well guess who is the new head of the ballot committee, from what we here, Mark King, aka RR and joevotesno. Imagine him counting ballots for Hummel and we are paying for this?.

 
Is there no limit to how many stupid things you can say?