Non-refundable really meaning non refundable!!

[tadjr]

----------------
On 8/27/2002 11:16:35 PM

tadjr...one minor difference with the Airtran rule...after $50 you can use the remaining credit towards another trip. U's new policy is use it or lose it. YOu know...sort of like tickets to a Broadway show
----------------

Read it again. If you canx 1 hr in advance you can change it,just like US new policy. If you dont cancel 1 hour in advance the ticket is worthless.
Reservations must be cancelled at least one hour prior to departure, and there is a $50 fee per passenger to cancel a reservation. The remaining balance will be placed in a credit file which may be used for future bookings up to one year from the date of the original booking. Failure to cancel reservations one hour prior to departure will result in forfeiture of airfare

And here is the new US policy.
Effective immediately, non-refundable fares for all US Airways domestic, Caribbean, U.S. to and from Canada and U.S. to Europe destinations must be used for the specifically ticketed flight and will have no value once the flight has departed. Changes may be made to the non-refundable itineraries before scheduled departure, subject to certain restrictions and fees

 

[USFlyer]

All of these comparisons to Airtran are ridiculous. Find me one $1700 coach fare on Airtran that is both nonrefundable and now worthless if you do not use the ticket. Check out those pesky BE102MNS (and the like) US fares on transcon flights -- they are nonrefundable fares yet cost a fortune. Now US is telling me if I don't use them, I'll lose them. Airtran doesn't charge that much, as far as I'm aware.

 

[TomBascom]

----------------
On 8/27/2002 11:08:53 PM
Might want to take a look at AirTrans own rule regarding cancellation (or lack thereof) of nonrefunable tickets.
...
Look familiar?

----------------

What's the point in being a high cost carrier with a low cost carriers restrictions? (But higher fees...)

Is that supposed to attract customers?

 

[trvlr64]

RESPONDING TO BEAR..........Ummm. trvlr64, I think MOST major carriers fly to PIT. You have plenty of choices. How is that "trapped?"

**(trapped because with USAirways being the primary carrier in this hub city I have more flight options on them than I do on any other airline. The convenience here is......frequency! I don't get that with the other carriers)

Oh that's right-- you don't want to go through the inconvenience of changing planes. Well then I guess you'll just have to pay a little more for the convenience of flying to and from PIT nonstop. Like why a carton of milk is more expensive at a 7-11 compared to a Sam's Club or a Piggly Wiggly or whichever supermarket you use-- you pay for the convenience of getting a carton of milk while you are also stopping for a carton of cigarettes, or a newspaper, or a tank of gas.

** (guess what BEAR.....I change planes quite often. Yes I love the convenience of direct flights out of PIT but I do my fair share of connections and I have no problem doing connections. And we have GIANT EAGLE grocery stores for your FYI and since I LIVE on USAirways every week I have no need to go to the grovery store too often. I only have bottled water and soda pop in my refrigerator.......LOL)


How is writing your congressman gonna get more service to PIT? The way to get more carriers to PIT is to USE THEM when they are there.

**(when I have to, I do fly UA or even DL, again it's convenience and availablity of a primary carrier. PIT has too often only relied on USAirways to service it, before that it was TWA <1960-1970's>. To have 1 primary carrier in any airport only hurts that city. We at PIT have consistently been charged higher fares. I can drive 2.5 hours to CMH or CLE and get the same flight via PIT to my destination at a considerable price decrease. Our county executives have too often given in to USAirway's because are one of the last remaining largest employers in this city, the CE's have no backbone.... read the Pgh Post Gazette to hear them waffle.....good and often funny reading sometimes)


Remember Air Tran's brief PIT experience? Everyone loved Air Tran's low fares that U matched. Unfortunately no one actually FLEW them because of the addiction to U's frequent flyer program. So they left.
**(OH wait! Does AirTran even fly to 98% of the cities I do business in?? I think that's a BIG....NO!)

It's your $$$. Vote with your feet. You get what you pay for. But then don't complain when U begins to cut back service in PIT, or substitutes more RJs, or (God forbid) liquidates completely.

**(Did I complain about the service cutbacks or RJ's in my previous posting? I don't think so. I would prefer the RJ's over the Dash 8's anytime. As for service cutbacks, I never went to Saginaw anyway!! A few cuts here and there don't bother me as long as I get to my destination. And if USAirways does disappear, I guess that I will have no other choice but to fly another airline at that time)

Maybe U is the first airline to have the guts to take the first bold step to start to wean Americans off their silly frequent flyer mileage addictions. Hopefully all others will follow.

** (if the other's follow USAirways bungle then every loyal frequent flyer is going to start flying other airlines that reward their loyal customers. There are a lot of LOYAL frequent flyers on USAirways, I am one of them. I prefer their service, their destinations, their quality product, and their outstanding employees. I also prefer the CONVENIENCE and FREQUENCY that USAirways provides me. If this is a silly addiction then call me BOZO)

[:bigsmile:]

 

[KCFlyer]

tadjr...one minor difference with the Airtran rule...after $50 you can use the remaining credit towards another trip. U's new policy is use it or lose it. YOu know...sort of like tickets to a Broadway show

 

[ClueByFour]

Oh that's right-- you don't want to go through the inconvenience of changing planes. Well then I guess you'll just have to pay a little more for the convenience of flying to and from PIT nonstop. Like why a carton of milk is more expensive at a 7-11 compared to a Sam's Club or a Piggly Wiggly or whichever supermarket you use-- you pay for the convenience of getting a carton of milk while you are also stopping for a carton of cigarettes, or a newspaper, or a tank of gas.

How is writing your congressman gonna get more service to PIT? The way to get more carriers to PIT is to USE THEM when they are there. Remember Air Tran's brief PIT experience? Everyone loved Air Tran's low fares that U matched. Unfortunately no one actually FLEW them because of the addiction to U's frequent flyer program. So they left.

It's your $$$. Vote with your feet. You get what you pay for. But then don't complain when U begins to cut back service in PIT, or substitutes more RJs, or (God forbid) liquidates completely.

Maybe U is the first airline to have the guts to take the first bold step to start to wean Americans off their silly frequent flyer mileage addictions. Hopefully all others will follow.
----------------

One might compare my addiction to frequent flyer perqs to that of unionized labor and exhorbitant contracts, but I'm not going there. Really.[] It's a whole new world for everybody, eh?

If Airtran came back into PIT today, I think you would find a drastically different result. If I knew that US was planning this, I'd have flown them more than 3 times.

As for the trapped US1 in PIT, I think you will find that unless you go to the southest (no MIA service), AA is very palatable, and has been pounding US on price to the midwest/west coast for a couple of months (since March, maybe)? I had originally thrown them enough business to make Platinum because I knew I'd have status on US locked up this year.

Today, I find myself bagging (and eating my last round of $100 fees on) about $3k in future travel on US. You do have a choice.

It sucks because I truly do think that the frontline employees on US are the best. I'm not, however, willing to be fleeced over what (until when/if they decide to match) the other majors will provide me.

The more I consider this, it is the changes regarding the changeability and standby and corporate discounts that are going to bury US.

 

[tadjr]

Yep, you're right. But now U has screwed with that very FF program that kept those folks addicted to U. If AirTran were to announce service tomorrow, I'd bet they'd get a lot of U defectors. Why book U when you stand to lose your entire airfare on a nonrefundable ticket.

Might want to take a look at AirTrans own rule regarding cancellation (or lack thereof) of nonrefunable tickets.
CANCELLATION POLICY: To cancel a reservation, please call AirTran Airways Reservations at 1-800-AIR-TRAN or 770-994-8258 in Atlanta. Reservations must be cancelled at least one hour prior to departure, and there is a $50 fee per passenger to cancel a reservation. The remaining balance will be placed in a credit file which may be used for future bookings up to one year from the date of the original booking. Failure to cancel reservations one hour prior to departure will result in forfeiture of airfare

Look familiar?

 

[USFlyer]

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On 8/27/2002 1110 PM

its amusing. I know many point junkies (being one myself). You have the choice to stay home or travel by car, plane and stay in a hotel for work so you chose to do that so when you are on vacation, you can travel by car, plane and stay in a hotel.
----------------

Oh, I've thought about this numerous times! Every time people find out how many points and miles I have, they say, "Wow, you can go anywhere you want with those." And I'm like... nah, I just want to plop myself on the couch that I sit on about once a month.

Seriously, though, sometimes all this miles and points stuff (and status with airlines, hotels, etc.) does get kinda ridiculous. We had a running bet at the office to see who could get the most "preferred" tags for their luggage. One guy wrote every single carrier and got complimentary status (due to his earned US status) on all but one (as I recall, this was about two years ago).

 

[RumorS]

NOW SERVING CHEESE WITH EVERYONES WHINE!!!!!

 

[balt4house]

Can we get a history lesson here? Frequent flyer awards were created by AA in the early days of deregulation, correct? When were the elite levels first established by carriers?

What I don't understand is how the majors will differentiate themselves from the Southwest style carriers of the world without the loyalty dividends. Are they all going to say "I only want the high rev business trav" and just treat the rest like grandma flying to florida? Will there be enough of that big money business to go around? It looks like the market has been mighty thin as of late. Keeping any loyal flyers might be nice.

It is a free country and if people don't like a policy they can take their business elsewhere, but I would be amazed if someone didn't catch on to the defections and make their business model work for those "lesser" b-travellers.
The Delta changes (LUser fares, a policy I didn't have a problem with) did lead to some defections, and some of the complainers stuck around....but this one....wow. Why bother flying US?
-g

 

[*Athena*]

Actually, folks business wise I think this is a "Great idea". We can only sell so many seats at a reduced rate, and people that purchase the advanced fares for that rate, then don't show up for the flight, its not right, yes we lose money. Think about it, somebody else lost out on that lower fare the airline can't recoupe it, and U's allowed the pax to reuse that fare for another, basically yes the seat will go out empty. People have to start being more responsible, read what you buying when your buying something on the computer, or listen when your purchasing over the phone. I can't tell you how many time pax saids, knowing full well their tkt is non refunable, "can't I get my money back".

But, just hold on, Dave said he didn't like the fare structure, I believe something better is going to happen... maybe, last minute/standby, rates will appear... maybe ow walk up fares will appear. Behind every cloud is a silver lining lets hope that's what we're looking at. []

 

[TomBascom]

----------------
On 8/28/2002 2:03:36 PM

Actually, folks business wise I think this is a "Great idea". We can only sell so many seats at a reduced rate, and people that purchase the advanced fares for that rate,

That's inventory management -- and it takes the no shows into account.

then don't show up for the flight, its not right, yes we lose money. Think about it, somebody else lost out on that lower fare the airline can't recoupe it, and U's allowed the pax to reuse that fare for another, basically yes the seat will go out empty.

You didn't lose any money over that -- it costs you the same to fly that plane either way. You may have even made money if a walk up passenger was able to take that seat.
You've got the passengers money and your'e earning interest on it. You also have the passenger over a barrel with new change fees that you get to collect and restrictions out the wazoo on when they can actually use the credit. Or at least you did until yesterday -- today, for some reason, you've thrown away the additional fees and control.

People have to start being more responsible, read what you buying when your buying something on the computer, or listen when your purchasing over the phone. I can't tell you how many time pax saids, knowing full well their tkt is non refunable, "can't I get my money back".

Until yesterday non-refundable meant that you cannot get your money back -- not that the item purchased has no value. It was like returning something for an in-store credit -- a perfectly reasonable thing for a consumer to do.

As for reading the rules -- come on! They aren't even in English.

But, just hold on, Dave said he didn't like the fare structure, I believe something better is going to happen... maybe, last minute/standby, rates will appear... maybe ow walk up fares will appear. Behind every cloud is a silver lining lets hope that's what we're looking at. []
----------------

Dave is a man of his word. Too bad he didn't say anything about there being some sort of horrible problem with those nasty customers buying habits -- then we might have known this was coming. His timing is bizzare to say the least.

 

[tadjr]

No bias and self serving interest here I guess? [:devil:]

 

[MrMarky]

BOYCOTT US AIRWAYS!!!

The problem here is not only how bad this punitive new policy is, but that it could catch on with the other majors, just like a fare war, if it isn't nipped in the bud.

That makes it an issue for all FF's on every major!

US Should immediately be publicly boycotted by their FF's and if possible you guys in PIT, PHL, DCA and CLT should go down to the airport and picket them. Make sure to call the local TV stations first. It'll make great 6PM news for the guys in CCY to watch on their TV's.

Let 'em fly empty planes for a while, at least empty of a good deal of their best customers, and let 'em get a dose of the kind of bad publicity irate customers can give 'em. Just like NW got in DTW a couple of years ago when they held everyone hostage in planes on the ground for 8 and 10 hours.

If a step two becomes necessary, the public can begin to flood the ATSB with requests to deny U's loan guarantees. That's our tax money, not some entitlement for US Airways.

 

[RealityCheck]

No bias and self serving interest here I guess?

My Daddy always taught me never to trust anyone in a suit, they'll sell you out in a heartbeat and turn on you in 2 seconds flat. Well lookey here. He was right.
"Thanks for the heads up Dad. You only cared about getting from point A to B safely, timely, at a fair price, right DAD?"