Non-refundable really meaning non refundable!!

[LoneStarMike]

----------------
On 8/27/2002 1:35:36 PM

Right, but the thing about use-or-lose in respect to illnesses or emergencies is pure, unadulterated bull#%##$.


I'll bet you that Southwest and JetBlue don't follow this and folks will be more than willing to go a different route.

That's not what I'm seeing on JetBlue's site. If you go to their website and click on "How to jetBlue" it states:

"All fares are one way and non-refundable/non-transferable. Changes can only be made by calling 1-800-JETBLUE prior to scheduled departure for $25 and applicable fare adjustment. Changes are not eligible for a $5 Internet savings. Cancellations may be made prior to scheduled departure time for a full credit (less a $25.00 processing fee per passenger) towards future JetBlue travel. Credit is valid for one year and can only be redeemed by calling 1-800-JETBLUE. All monies will be forfeited if reservation is not cancelled prior to departure."

Note the last sentence. I believe jetBlue has had this policy all along. If you don't cancel before departure you lose it all. It seems to me the only thing different about US's policy is that they DO still allow you the option of buying a fully refundable fare, whereas jetBlue does not.

LoneStarMike

 

[TomBascom]

----------------
On 8/27/2002 9:37:01 PM
Maybe U is the first airline to have the guts to take the first bold step to start to wean Americans off their silly frequent flyer mileage addictions. Hopefully all others will follow.
----------------

The customer is the enemy! That will solve it.

Maybe U will have the guts to introduce a truly innovative pricing model and wean the majors off of their deadly addiction to $2,000 Y fares.

 

[Bear96]

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On 8/27/2002 8:58:33 PM

I can promise US Airways one thing... I'll never purchase another ticket from them. Delta can now have my business, both business and pleasure, out of CLT. And if Delta is crazy enough to start the same purchase rules, then it is only 85 miles to GSO (AirTran) or 180 miles to RDU, or 2 to 2.5 hours drive (Southwest and AirTran). The old saying use to be, "You get what you pay for." Now you get nothing from the majors. The discount carriers offer more than the majors in the way of food, less ticket prices, no Saturday night stay, and they are making money. So, why not go to the discount carriers - pay less and get just as much if not more, and safe and reliable service.
----------------

Well, as has already been discussed, jetBlue has had similar policies in place to the new U ones for some time now.

If you truly think the low fare carriers offer the same product as U (think FC upgrades... international service... interline baggage checking... frequent flyer lounges... hot meals on longer flights... REAL frequent flyer programs) then enjoy your 185 mile drive to RDU. I am SURE you can leave your house "2 to 2.5 hours" before your RDU departure and make it, no sweat.

 

[phillyguy]

I wonder how this will affect U's revenue stream? I can only imagine it has to hurt it which will only affect the rest of the reorganization

 

[flaptrack]

Mr. Tom Bascom

Enjoyed your post.I do not work for US Airways or any airline at this time. I used to work for some airlines ,but because of the carnage in the industry, I am no longer employed in the airline industry (although I want to be).

 

[trvlr64]

This US1, that is TRAPPED by USAirways because I live in Pittsburgh is going to look to the other carriers if this policy truely takes effect.

I have flown this airline every week for the last 6 years. Even when I didn't live in Pittsburgh and lived in other cities (SAN, INT, LGA, PHL) I made sure I flew USAirways because they served me well. I have come to take a personal interest in the FUTURE of this airline because of the loyality I feel towards it and the EMPLOYEES that I see more than I see my own family. But now, I'm PISSED !! Dave wants concessions from his employees and now his CUSTOMERS!!

As much as I hate flying other airlines if I can avoid it, I think I might have to start looking at United and (god forebid) Delta. If the codeshare alliance truely occurs too, I'm going to take my entire family on a very nice vacation to Hawaii on UNITED (in first class of course) just to get rid of my FF miles.

Goodbye USAIRWAYS.

PS... I reach US1 status for 2003 at the end of September. I think I will contact UA or DL to see if they will accept me as a preferred customer. I will also write my county executives, my congressmen and senators to start inviting more carriers to service the PIT airport. It's time for us customers to have more choices for airlines now.

[:blackeye:]

 

[TomBascom]

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On 8/27/2002 9:41:27 PM

Well, as has already been discussed, jetBlue has had similar policies in place to the new U ones for some time now.

So what differentiates them now?

If you truly think the low fare carriers offer the same product as U (think FC upgrades... international service... interline baggage checking... frequent flyer lounges... hot meals on longer flights... REAL frequent flyer programs) then enjoy your 185 mile drive to RDU. I am SURE you can leave your house "2 to 2.5 hours" before your RDU departure and make it, no sweat.
----------------

Upgrades aren't much of an attraction if you can't attain the status to use them.

International doesn't count for much when you don't have the status to upgrade and 99% of your flying is domestic.

Hot meals? In coach? (Remember we can't get up front any more because that's being reserved for "true" elites... not that the meal is worth fighting for in the first place.)

Interline baggage? Who cares? This is worth paying extra?

Frequent flier lounges? Clue time -- we pay for those! (Ok, most of us do. Certain grandfathered US1s don't -- but I've got a feeling I know where that's going...)

What REAL frequent flier program? The one that only recognizes certain fares as being worthy? The one that has availability of a single middle seat in row 33? Or the one that lets you have any available seat at the time of booking?

I already drive 2 hours out of my way to fly US Airways to certain destinations -- maybe I should go with the more local and lower cost alternatives?

The low fare carriers offer a product which is a better match to the business needs of the frequent business traveler -- prices are reasonable, schedules are efficient and itineraries are flexible at a reasonable cost. If your fares aren't within sight of those fares (and other costs) then I can't justify not using them.

The main thing that they lack is upgrades. But that's a personal thing -- it isn't something that you can generally justify when billing a customer. And guess what? Business travel gets billed to customers. There isn't some pot of corporate gold that is handed out every quarter for "business travelers" to dispense to airlines.

And they don't all lack upgrades.

 

[flaptrack]

I just Upgraded to the unemployment line. Where are my miles?

 

[TomBascom]

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On 8/27/2002 926 PM

You people ***** and moan like air travel is an entitlement! It is free enterprise! If you do not like it, take your business elsewhere! Get in your Range Rover and drive to California!
----------------

You're missing the point -- we pay the bills. It's never a good idea to annoy the people who pay the bills.

Even if this is the best idea since sliced bread it has been handled in such a way as to cause your very best customers to become very angry.

We have options -- the Range Rover is one. So is the bus, the train and, more to the point, other airlines.

But we're here whining. Why is that? Because we have an investment in this airline and retain loyalty to it because of all the good things that the airline has done for us in the past. We still care enough to whine and we're hoping that it turns out to be a big mistake. But it won't take long for that to change -- I've got trips to book in the next couple of weeks and they won't be with an airline that denies me stand-by, that values an unused ticket at zero or that doesn't count my trips on cheap fares towards my FF status.

These policies aren't a well thought out solution to US Airway's revenue problems -- they do nothing to address that. In fact they probably directly hurt revenue by reducing the number of change fees that you get to collect. They are duct tape on a fare structure that is broken. The concept of a $2,000 round trip is dead. Get over it and move on. Or hold on to the hallucination and go the way of Eastern.

 

[flaptrack]

Hey Tom,
"Let the Buyer Beware" You sound as if you travel a lot with a very successful company , one that takes advantage of every opportunity to extract dollars from those less savvy. Hey, I guess those as savvy as you got you on airline ticket prices! It is a crazy world, Isn’t it my friend.

 

[USFlyer]

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On 8/27/2002 1024 PM

Eliminate the FF programs completely and you'll suddenly find the 'road warriors' who flew you once a week suddenly look at teleconferencing with a whole new outlook. Why bust your ass on the road all week when there is absolutly nothing in it for you?

----------------

Exactly! I spend about 175 nights a year in a hotel. If it weren't for the hotel points (which are based on money actually paid), airline miles and complimentary rental car upgrades, screw it. I'd stay home and video/tele/data conference more. I'm often given the option of working at home or traveling -- I choose traveling so I get all these perks. I KNOW I'm not the only one who does this...

 

[TomBascom]

----------------
On 8/27/2002 10:30:27 PM

Hey Tom,
"Let the Buyer Beware" You sound as if you travel a lot with a very successful company, one that takes advantage of every opportunity to extract dollars from those less savvy. Hey, I guess those as savvy as you got you on airline ticket prices! It is a crazy world, Isn’t it my friend.

----------------

I'm currently a "free agent" -- but I've been part of big corps and small ones too. And I work with big guys and little guys -- so I see a spread.

I don't extract dollars from those less savvy -- I provide services to people who need them and are willing to pay for them. Some are savvy, some are not. Some need me because they aren't savvy, others want me because they are.

As for travel dollars -- regardless of where I've been the company and the customer have always tried to keep travel expenses down. Travel isn't a profit center for me or for any of the companies that I've worked for -- it's an expense that is passed directly and transparently to the end customer. I spend more time than I probably should keeping that expense down on behalf of the customer but nobody is "getting me" as a result. There are probably times when I could get away with billing a Y or an F fare to a customer just as there times when my mechanic could bill me for exotic parts in my car. But that would be bad business.

The point is that the pressure to keep costs down isn't something that I generally control. Very few of US' customers have the luxury of choosing the fare that they pay to the tune of picking between $200 or $2,000. I can generally justify a slight differential for business reasons -- better schedule, laptop power, being more rested on arrival, having a personal liason when things go wrong are all worth something. But they aren't worth hundreds or even thousands of dollars. Nor do they cost U anything like that.

This buyer is aware -- and I'm aware that I can meet my goals elsewhere. Do I want to? Not especially -- I've had a good run with U and I'd like to continue it. But not under these conditions.

 

[KCFlyer]

Ummm. trvlr64, I think MOST major carriers fly to PIT. You have plenty of choices. How is that "trapped?"

Oh that's right-- you don't want to go through the inconvenience of changing planes. Well then I guess you'll just have to pay a little more for the convenience of flying to and from PIT nonstop. Like why a carton of milk is more expensive at a 7-11 compared to a Sam's Club or a Piggly Wiggly or whichever supermarket you use-- you pay for the convenience of getting a carton of milk while you are also stopping for a carton of cigarettes, or a newspaper, or a tank of gas.

What do you say to trvlr's employer who is looking at their travel budget, and figuring that if they book on U in advance and the plans change AT ALL, they are out the money. At least on the others, they'll lose a hundred bucks (still a ripoff, IMHO) but will have the flexibility to change their plans. Or they might just book on Southwest - no change penalty at all.

How is writing your congressman gonna get more service to PIT? The way to get more carriers to PIT is to USE THEM when they are there. Remember Air Tran's brief PIT experience? Everyone loved Air Tran's low fares that U matched. Unfortunately no one actually FLEW them because of the addiction to U's frequent flyer program. So they left.

Yep, you're right. But now U has screwed with that very FF program that kept those folks addicted to U. If AirTran were to announce service tomorrow, I'd bet they'd get a lot of U defectors. Why book U when you stand to lose your entire airfare on a nonrefundable ticket.

It's your $$$. Vote with your feet. You get what you pay for. But then don't complain when U begins to cut back service in PIT, or substitutes more RJs, or (God forbid) liquidates completely.

Needing money as badly as U does, it seems a bit foolish to make changes that will send customers to the competition. I thought every dollar mattered. Now I see that it's only the full Y and F dollars that matter.

Maybe U is the first airline to have the guts to take the first bold step to start to wean Americans off their silly frequent flyer mileage addictions. Hopefully all others will follow.

Most likley won't. They need passengers. They most likely WILL send U a great big thank you card for sending them the ones you didn't want. Because even though Delta caught he@@ for limiting FC upgrades, they still let you become "Medallion" level on a dirt cheap fare. Eliminate the FF programs completely and you'll suddenly find the 'road warriors' who flew you once a week suddenly look at teleconferencing with a whole new outlook. Why bust your ass on the road all week when there is absolutly nothing in it for you?

 

[tadjr]

Exactly! I spend about 175 nights a year in a hotel. If it weren't for the hotel points (which are based on money actually paid), airline miles and complimentary rental car upgrades, screw it. I'd stay home and video/tele/data conference more. I'm often given the option of working at home or traveling -- I choose traveling so I get all these perks. I KNOW I'm not the only one who does this...
----------------

To all those road warriors, please dont take this the wrong way, I just think its amusing. I know many point junkies (being one myself). You have the choice to stay home or travel by car, plane and stay in a hotel for work so you chose to do that so when you are on vacation, you can travel by car, plane and stay in a hotel.
[] Thats as bad as a nonrev liking to go to work (the airport) when they are on vacation. []

 

[geo1004]

Correction Bear96:

Maybe U is the first airline to have the guts to take the first bold step to start to wean Americans off the silly frequent flyer mileage addictions the airlines created.


What continues to amaze me is that US seems to think that by leveling the playing field it will somehow earn an advantage. On the level playing field US Airways simply does not stack up with its limited route structure confined to the east coast and it's pricing and the product it offers. Oddly enough, the one section of US that actually makes money is the Carribean operation. Ever looked at a the difference between 21 day advance purchase coach fares, a Y full fare coach ticket and one in First Class? The difference is NOTHING like the insane extremes you will find on domestic routes.