No to the Alliance!

[saywhat]

Okay - good so far
 
Now - since you claim 700 is NOT wrong explain how this says the same thing.

 

 
Here's a hint - there is no 50% +1 requirement anymore - its about valid votes cast.

Correct, if 12 people in a group of 300 vote, and 7 vote yes and 5 vote no, they are Union. On the other hand if in a 3 way vote, if none of the 3 gets the majority, which is 50%+1 of the people that show up to vote, then a run off of the top 2 would occur. I hope this clarifies?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Correct, if 12 people in a group of 300 vote, and 7 vote yes and 5 vote no, they are Union. On the other hand if in a 3 way vote, if none of the 3 gets the majority, which is 50%+1 of the people that show up to vote, then a run off of the top 2 would occur. I hope this clarifies?

 
Perfect!
 
Now tell me how 700 is correct when he is claiming the combination of the vote must be 50%+1
 

 
The rules have changed I worked the raid in the summer of 2013.

If there are way three unions on the ballot and neither of them individually get 50%+1 but get it combined then the bottom vote getter is dropped, then the two top vote getters have a runoff.

Call the NMB if you don't believe me.

It happened at US fleet service IAM, IBT and USWA were on the ballot no union got the 50%+1, so a runoff happened with the IAM and USWA.

 

[700UW]

Here was the ballot from the US M&R raid of 2013:
 
IAM
IBT
NO
Write In
 
The IAM won,the IAM received 50%+1 of votes CASTED.  If they didnt and the IAM and the IBT combined for 50%+1, then there would have been a runoff, the NO and the Write In options would be dropped and a straight yes for the IAM or IBT.

I was there, I lived it, and worked it.

 

[saywhat]

Perfect!
 
Now tell me how 700 is correct when he is claiming the combination of the vote must be 50%+1

He is saying same thing, just written in confusing way. In a 3 horse vote a rerun will occur if the horse with the most votes doesn't have 50%+1 of the total votes cast. That is why I backed him or her.

 

[700UW]

Not a rerun, a runoff, the lowest vote getters are removed from the ballot for the runoff election.
 
A DL Ballot would have looked like this:
 
IAM
Write IN
NO
 
so if the IAM and the write in choices and neither of them achieves 50%+1 of all votes cast, then there would have been a runoff between the two highest vote getters.]
 
The US ballot in 2013:

IAM
IBT
Write in
No
 
Its not hard to figure out.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

All well and good except that your new found understanding of the rule doesn't jive with your posts that started this little sleigh ride.
 
 
Your original post -

 

No, if there is a write in and neither gets 50%+1, but combined they do, then there will be a runoff election.
 
Election procedures have changed.
 

 
Followed again with...
 

The rules have changed I worked the raid in the summer of 2013.

If there are way three unions on the ballot and neither of them individually get 50%+1 but get it combined then the bottom vote getter is dropped, then the two top vote getters have a runoff.

Call the NMB if you don't believe me.

It happened at US fleet service IAM, IBT and USWA were on the ballot no union got the 50%+1, so a runoff happened with the IAM and USWA.
 

 
 
You've subtly tried to change your initial statement as this thread has progressed, but the fact remains that these statements are wrong. The "combination" of valid votes no longer applies in these situations. It did prior to the 2012 rule change, and while I can see your obvious unwillingness to admit your error its clear you were citing the old NMB election rules and not the current one.
 
 
OLD NMB Run Off Rule -

 

16.0 RUN-OFF ELECTIONS

When a majority of the eligible voters have cast valid ballots, but no single organization or individual has received a majority of the votes cast, a run-off election may be held. All requests for run-off elections should be directed to the attention of the General Counsel. Run-off elections will be conducted only with written authorization of the Board. The procedures for run-off elections are set forth in the NMB Rules § 1206.1 (29 CFR § 1206.1).

In a run-off election, the ballot includes only the two representatives receiving the greater number of votes cast in the initial election, and does not include a space for write-in votes. The representative receiving the higher number of votes in the run-off is declared the winner even if fewer than a majority of the eligible employees cast run-off ballots. (See 29 C.F.R. § 1206.1).
 

 
CURRENT NMB Run Off Rule -

 

16.0 RUN-OFF ELECTIONS

When an election results in no option receiving a majority of the valid ballots, or in the event of a tie, the Board shall hold a run-off election between the two options receiving the largest number of votes. The procedures for run-off elections are set forth in the NMB Rules § 1206.1 (29 CFR § 1206.1).

In a run-off election, the ballot will not include a space for “write-in” votes. The option receiving the highest number of votes in the run-off is declared the winner. (See 29 C.F.R. § 1206.1).
 

 
 
Deny it all you wish - your initial statements concerning run-off elections on this thread offshoot are wrong.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Let's say there's 18500 eligible voters in mech and related.


The ballot is
Association
No
Write in

The vote goes:
AMFA 7000
Ass. 7500
TWU. 700
IAM. 500
No. 500

2300 eligible don't vote

AMFA and the Ass run off because neither achieved 50% of votes cast.

scenario #2

Vote goes:
AMFA. 8100
Ass. 7500
TWU. 250
IAM. 200
No. 100

2350 eligible do not vote

AMFA wins as they achieve over 50% of votes cast


I think this may be correct, but I welcome any discussion on the numbers.

 

[TWU informer]

I would love to stay and argue and play.
 
But I have to go now. We have less than 30 days to complete card signing and apply as intervener. No time for this.
 
Talk to you all later.

 

[1AA]

We don't even know at this time we will get a vote. Only the union posted a vote is coming. Nothing from the nmb. We do not even know the choices that will be presented on the ballot if we do get a ballot.

 

[Docker]

"AMFA wins as they achieve over 50% of votes cast
I think this may be correct, but I welcome any discussion on the numbers."
 
Thanks CMH_GSE.
 
That example seems to explain it the way 700 has been trying to get it across. With all the back and forth I wasn't sure if just a simple majority was needed or if there had to be a 50 +1% majority of actual voters to be the winner.

 

[1AA]

So on another note has anyone heard from our AMFA organizing committee?

 

[CMH_GSE]

We don't even know at this time we will get a vote. Only the union posted a vote is coming. Nothing from the nmb. We do not even know the choices that will be presented on the ballot if we do get a ballot.

Yes, I know we don't know, I was just giving a couple of hypothetical situations to illustrate the election run off rules.

 

[1AA]

I understand. I just don't want guys to get so focused on a vote or what will be on the ballot if it should come to that. So far only the union mentions a vote and I am concerned they may convince the nmb to have certain choices which will differ from previous ballots in representational elections.

 

[CMH_GSE]

If enough cards get turned in, the NMB has no choice but to put whatever intervenor on the ballot.

That should be the focus for the next 3 weeks.

 

[JABORD]

 
Shop Steward Training: The TWU-IAM Association Agreement

August 5, 2014

The July Steward Training covered the upcoming Association Agreement that our membership will soon be voting on. We began the training by going over the Trumka letter that aired his concern of a costly labor battle amongst AFLCIO Unions while not adding a single new member to organized labor. Trumka encouraged the TWU and IAM to work out a case of dual representation. This is where the Association Agreement came from.
The Agreement Regarding Seniority Integration states, your seniority will be based on the date of each employee’s entry into the basic classification, as set forth in the existing Collective Bargaining Agreements and the Current Seniority Lists maintained by American and USAir for each group. Once the Seniority List integration process is completed, The TWU and IAM will form a committee to address and resolve any individual challenges, which must be raised by submitting a letter identifying the alleged problem to the committee within 30 days after the integrated seniority list is published.
The TWU and IAM jointly agreed for the formation of Association Agreements of the three joint labor organizations representing the Craft and Classes of, Maintenance and Related, Material Logistics Specs, and Fleet Service Clerks. The membership will vote on whether to accept these Association Agreements. Once the Associations are accepted a ratio of current TWU and IAM members will determine the ratio of TWU and IAM members that will be maintained going forward. Your station location will determine if you are TWU or IAM. There will be some shuffling of our current stations to maintain the ratio resulting in current members changing unions.
The Association is a small organization that would own the Bargaining Agreement with American. The Association will be located in Washington DC and will hold no assets. The cost will be covered jointly by the TWU and IAM. A Chairman and Vice Chairman will preside over the Association they will be the International Presidents or their appointee. The Officers in the Association will come from the ranks of the TWU and IAM and meet a minimum of 4 times a year. Negotiations will be handled by committee formed from an equal number of representatives from the IAM and TWU. The first order of business for this committee will be to harmonize the two current agreements between the TWU and IAM into a single agreement.
We also have a joint agreement on Pensions. The IAM has a National Pension Fund (IAMNPF). The IAM and TWU will propose to allow current TWU members into the IAMNPF. They further agree to make this a high priority when we harmonize our current agreements.
Some very important steps in our near future will be the vote on the Association and then the Harmonizing of the twoCBA’s. The Association vote will be the same as any representation vote if the Association isn’t voted in we would lose our current CBA. With no CBA we become “At Will Employees”. That means you can be fired for no reason. You lose all the negotiated rights of pay, seniority, transfers, and riff procedures, just to name a few.
 
 
 
 
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57487-gary-yingst-vote-letter-is-incorrectgo-figure/


 

Unsure of your point Buck but the info highlighted in red is a total lie spun to stir up the TUL fear campaign. If the Association is voted down, the CBA in effect remains in effect. Period! The only thing that can end our current CBA is to go non-union. You Tulsa folks need wise up and see these lies for what they are. For the TWBoo to insert such a bold lie into this article trashes the credibility of the entire piece.
 

We don't even know at this time we will get a vote. Only the union posted a vote is coming. Nothing from the nmb. We do not even know the choices that will be presented on the ballot if we do get a ballot.

 

 "Only the union posted a vote is coming. Nothing from the nmb." 
This is very much the point that needs to be understood.