No to the Alliance!

[Buck]

Well times ticking what's the plan

With all the effort you have put into replacing the TWU here at Tulsa, it does sound like you are throwing in the towel?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The rules have changed I worked the raid in the summer of 2013.

If there are way three unions on the ballot and neither of them individually get 50%+1 but get it combined then the bottom vote getter is dropped, then the two top vote getters have a runoff.

Call the NMB if you don't believe me.

It happened at US fleet service IAM, IBT and USWA were on the ballot no union got the 50%+1, so a runoff happened with the IAM and USWA.

 
Okay - lets see it
 
The rules as published did change in 2013 and the most current version of the representational manual is clearly posted - which is what I cited from.
 
You're more than familiar with the NMB website, determinations are posted there dating back decades, simply provide a link to the election you're citing where the NMB made the determination you claim.
 
 
For accuracy - the rule change actually went into effect in Dec 2012 - the NMB representational manual was revised Mar 2013

 

[bigjets]

Writing in AMFA if given the option or voting no union.

It would be a good idea to do away with the TWU before the international shuts down 591 and we are all part of ramp locals, not that it matters, AA has some of the highest paid FSCs and the lowest paid mechs with our own locals. Sad.

I like those guys that say AA would screw us without a union. If delta mechs were paid like us and had work rules like us I would agree, but we have the worst of everything on top of paying union dues.

 

[topDawg]

Writing in AMFA if given the option or voting no union.

It would be a good idea to do away with the TWU before the international shuts down 591 and we are all part of ramp locals, not that it matters, AA has some of the highest paid FSCs and the lowest paid mechs with our own locals. Sad.

I like those guys that say AA would screw us without a union. If delta mechs were paid like us and had work rules like us I would agree, but we have the worst of everything on top of paying union dues.

thats not true. 
 
you guys do about 15% more work in-house than we do. 
 
 
and that is just covering LAA, if US came under your scope you guys would have a lot more work than us. 

 

[CMH_GSE]

The rules have changed I worked the raid in the summer of 2013.
If there are way three unions on the ballot and neither of them individually get 50%+1 but get it combined then the bottom vote getter is dropped, then the two top vote getters have a runoff.
Call the NMB if you don't believe me.
It happened at US fleet service IAM, IBT and USWA were on the ballot no union got the 50%+1, so a runoff happened with the IAM and USWA.

I looked for the election you speak of, haven't found it.
What was the month and year?

 

[700UW]

Okay - lets see it
 
The rules as published did change in 2013 and the most current version of the representational manual is clearly posted - which is what I cited from.
 
You're more than familiar with the NMB website, determinations are posted there dating back decades, simply provide a link to the election you're citing where the NMB made the determination you claim.
 
 
For accuracy - the rule change actually went into effect in Dec 2012 - the NMB representational manual was revised Mar 2013

Read section 16 of the representation manual its stated very clear.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Read section 16 of the representation manual its stated very clear.

 
I have read section 16 obviously you haven't as it clearly states -

 

16.0 RUN-OFF ELECTIONS

When an election results in no option receiving a majority of the valid ballots, or in the event of a tie, the Board shall hold a run-off election between the two options receiving the largest number of votes. The procedures for run-off elections are set forth in the NMB Rules § 1206.1 (29 CFR § 1206.1).

In a run-off election, the ballot will not include a space for “write-in” votes. The option receiving the highest number of votes in the run-off is declared the winner. (See 29 C.F.R. § 1206.1).
 

 
This is triggered only in the event of a tie - it is not what you claimed

 

The rules have changed I worked the raid in the summer of 2013.

If there are way three unions on the ballot and neither of them individually get 50%+1 but get it combined then the bottom vote getter is dropped, then the two top vote getters have a runoff.

Call the NMB if you don't believe me.

It happened at US fleet service IAM, IBT and USWA were on the ballot no union got the 50%+1, so a runoff happened with the IAM and USWA.
 
 

 

[700UW]

Call the NMB when the IBT and the IAM were on the ballot at UA if nether union got 50%+1 there was going to be a runoff election, call the board.

 

[WorldTraveler]

thats not true. 
 
you guys do about 15% more work in-house than we do. 
 
 
and that is just covering LAA, if US came under your scope you guys would have a lot more work than us.

DOT data shows that for 2013, AA spent $2.25 billion on aircraft maintenance and outsourced 30.3% of their maintenance dollars for $1.56 billion spent on in-house maintenance.

US spent $1.06 billion and outsourced 54.2% of it for $485 million spent on in-house maintenance.

DL spent $2.56 billion and outsourced 41.8% of it for $1.49 billion on in-house maintenance.
based on DL's financial statements, DL Tech Ops also does between $400-500 million per year in insourced (MRO) work.

UA spent $2.7 billion on maintenance and outsourced 52.1% of it for $1.3 billion in in-house maintenance spend.

Neither AA or UA report MRO revenue as a source of revenue on their financial statements.

DL Tech Ops is about the same size as AA/US in-house maintenance on a combined basis based on 2013 DOT statistics.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Call the NMB when the IBT and the IAM were on the ballot at UA if nether union got 50%+1 there was going to be a runoff election, call the board.

 
The NMB was called - about 3 years ago when the NPRM came out proposing changes to several rules including this one.
 
Representational Elections are decided by a majority of valid votes cast, period. Section 16 only applies if there is a tie.

 

[topDawg]

DOT data shows that for 2013, AA spent $2.25 billion on aircraft maintenance and outsourced 30.3% of their maintenance dollars for $1.56 billion spent on in-house maintenance.

US spent $1.06 billion and outsourced 54.2% of it for $485 million spent on in-house maintenance.

DL spent $2.56 billion and outsourced 41.8% of it for $1.49 billion on in-house maintenance.
based on DL's financial statements, DL Tech Ops also does between $400-500 million per year in insourced (MRO) work.

UA spent $2.7 billion on maintenance and outsourced 52.1% of it for $1.3 billion in in-house maintenance spend.

Neither AA or UA report MRO revenue as a source of revenue on their financial statements.

DL Tech Ops is about the same size as AA/US in-house maintenance on a combined basis based on 2013 DOT statistics.

ugh
 
i said LAA. Not AA/US. 
and i'm not talking about MRO revenue because that isn't part of a contract. 
 
So again, sorry i was off a little, but LAA does about 10-15% more work in-house than Delta. 

 

[1AA]

That's fine, cause if it comes down to a runoff between the AMFA and any other union or combo of them - AMFA will win..

I'm sure the unions, afl-cio, the company and the nmb will not make it easy for amfa to win. We have seen this over and over from anyone of the mentioned organizations. I hope we get a vote and the ballot will be as stated in the nmb representational manual.

 

[CMH_GSE]

I'm sure the unions, afl-cio, the company and the nmb will not make it easy for amfa to win. We have seen this over and over from anyone of the mentioned organizations. I hope we get a vote and the ballot will be as stated in the nmb representational manual.

I do have some concern over the teeny little fact that the pilots and the FAs did Not get a vote.

 

[1AA]

I do have some concern over the teeny little fact that the pilots and the FAs did Not get a vote.

Those work groups agreed to have one union represent them. No vote needed because the other unions conceded. They did what was best for the membership. The association is doing what's best for the association not the membership.

 

[bigjets]

ugh
 
i said LAA. Not AA/US. 
and i'm not talking about MRO revenue because that isn't part of a contract. 
 
So again, sorry i was off a little, but LAA does about 10-15% more work in-house than Delta.

I'm not talking about outsourcing, I'm talking about pay, sick, vacation, shift diff. LAA just went through bankruptcy, if AA wanted outsource more OH it would have. Seeing all the talent at TUL and how OK bends over backwards for AA that's why TUL is still open. Not anything the TWU negotiated.

If your saying the TWU negotiated that, then you're also saying the TWU sacrificed AFW MCI MSP DTW etc etc