No to the Alliance!

[MetalMover]

Sorry not interested in riding your Merry Go Round again. It just gives me too much gas.

10 more days and I will get me some Tums.

So tell us what happens in 10 days? Anti TWU mechanics are going to rally around the TWU?
Is fleet service magically going to dominate the airline industry?
Tell us what happens in 10 days? It will never end our desire to rid ourselves of the worthless union that claims to represent us...If not AMFA, then another union. Could be any union...Could be the Credit Union for all I care.
 
So what happens in 10 days? How does Fleet Service celebrate in 10 days? What's the plan? Gonna beg for a contract that will propel fleet service to the top?
 
So please tell us, how does the world change for WeAAsles in 10 days? Gonna dance the Irish jig singing "ding dong, Amfa is dead?

 

[WeAAsles]

I posted this in hopes of stopping or slowing down the arguing on the funding for the AA Frozen Pension.

You can't slow down the Boogy Man. He's like Michael Myers. He just keeps coming at you.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Please provide a link to support these assertions -
 
Specifically how the PBGC has any say on any merger activity possibly associated with Americans pension.
 
Americans pension is frozen, it is not under PBGC trusteeship.
 
Unions are not liable for pension underfunding - Labor has some say in the appointment of plan trustees but Multi-employer plans like the IAMNPP are not a part of the Union proper

the links provided are all you need.

As long as the PBGC insures a pension - and it does even when it is frozen - the PBGC absolutely does have a say in what happens with the pension.

and AA's pensions ARE underfunded if it weren't for the PPA.

Unions simply do not have anywhere near the assets to back up their pension obligations that a company has.

The PBGC is not going to allow an underfunded pension to be transferred to a union or any other entity if the risk of recovery is higher.

forget about the notion that a pension transfer is in the future and build the best future you can with that reality.

 

[WeAAsles]

So tell us what happens in 10 days? Anti TWU mechanics are going to rally around the TWU?
Is fleet service magically going to dominate the airline industry?
Tell us what happens in 10 days? It will never end our desire to rid ourselves of the worthless union that claims to represent us...If not AMFA, then another union. Could be any union...Could be the Credit Union for all I care.
 
So what happens in 10 days? How does Fleet Service celebrate in 10 days? What's the plan? Gonna beg for a contract that will propel fleet service to the top?

"Your" desire is meaningless unless it's the desire of the majority which clearly for 52 years is not the same as yours.

Oh well.

 

[MetalMover]

"Your" desire is meaningless unless it's the desire of the majority which clearly for 52 years is not the same as yours.

Oh well.

As long as there are TWU sheep like yourself, both fleet service and mechanics who are content with the loser TWU, maybe loser association, our desire will not wane.
 
SO tell us,, What happens in 10 days?

 

[700UW]

As of January 1, 2014, the TWU Plan’s funded status was at 100.73 percent of the target.

Your pension is almost two billion underfund, can you not see what has been put out from AA and the TWU?

How many times do I have to post it?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

the links provided are all you need.

As long as the PBGC insures a pension - and it does even when it is frozen - the PBGC absolutely does have a say in what happens with the pension.

and AA's pensions ARE underfunded if it weren't for the PPA.

Unions simply do not have anywhere near the assets to back up their pension obligations that a company has.

The PBGC is not going to allow an underfunded pension to be transferred to a union or any other entity if the risk of recovery is higher.

forget about the notion that a pension transfer is in the future and build the best future you can with that reality.

 
What links? Please provide them.
 
Again - where specifically does it state that simply being insured by the PBGC grants them a say or any kind of oversight on pension issues for plans that are NOT under their trusteeship?
 
Again - Unions are NOT liable for pension underfunding - Union assets have nothing to do with it, so why do you keep bringing it up like it means anything?

 

[scorpion 2]

Your pension is almost two billion underfund, can you not see what has been put out from AA and the TWU?

How many times do I have to post it?

Lets say it is 2 billion underfunded and the 100% funded claim is false.
If the plan has 3.45 billion in assets and should have 5.45 billion in assets that's 63.3% funded. So we are at a 36.7% deficit.
The average life expectancy for a male is 77.4 years of age. By changing the retirement age of our current AA plan from 60 to 65 to match the iamnpf guidelines the  pension benefit is reduced by 28.7%. Add to that the 24% reduction verses the 15% early out reduction in the AA plan we take another 9% concession. Together it's a 37.7% concession to our benefit. That alone would wipe out any shortage in the plan and make it 101% funded. AA gets off the hook for 2 billion and can use all of that to fund the Delta +7 at zero cost to them or just what the pension under funding is.  That's giving you the benefit of the doubt that they are using creative math on the pension trust. If that is the case and you are right then why would they not use the same underhanded approach to dump the trust. The iamnpf would have no reason to not take it. The PBGC gets off the hook for insuring a single employer plan and reduces their liability. Not sure were the twu gets their coin except for maybe not losing all the dues money that would go away if an election were held. By forming an ASS with the iam was the twu's best shot at keeping the dues flow.

 

[Buck]

Why are you having such a difficult time understanding the word "TARGET"?

I am not

 

[Buck]

Your pension is almost two billion underfund, can you not see what has been put out from AA and the TWU?

How many times do I have to post it?

I got it, I just posted what AA told it's employees.

 

[MetalMover]

Of course you will Mr Fox news. Painting the true and entire picture and being honest most certainly can't help your agenda. It was pretty easy to find on the net actually. Pretty pathetic of you that it only took me about 2 minutes to find.

Lying and withholding information is the only Hail Mary pass you got. And you can't throw the ball the length of two football fields so I'd have to say.

"The dream is almost over"

WeAAsles.
I am asking politely......What will happen in 10....I mean 9 days?
What does it mean for YOU? 
Because if you think the TWU bashing is going to suddenly stop, you are mistaken. You may be able to claim victory against AMFA, although I do not know why since it doesn't affect you.....
So PRETTY PLEASE, what happens in 9 days?
 Are you suddenly going to get your pretending match back? Or will you have to wait for another town hall meeting to ask that question?
Is the TWU going to reward you because AMFA did not get on the ballot?
Are you going to suggest that those mechanics who wanted the TWU out be punished?
I am trying to understand WHAT changes in 9 days?
 Because if you think the word AMFA will disappear from this forum or throughout the system, I have to tell you, that is not going to happen.
 
I am genuinely interested to hear from you WHAT will change in 9 days?
If it is simply because negotiations can begin, then please just say so.
 
I have another question for you.....
What would you consider a deal breaker contractually? I ask this because many people are tripping over themselves frothing at the mouth over the DL + 7........There is no way ANY of us are getting that WITHOUT giving something in return.... So, what would be that SOMETHING for you??

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles.
I am asking politely......What will happen in 10....I mean 9 days?
What does it mean for YOU? 

Another step to moving forward.

 
Because if you think the TWU bashing is going to suddenly stop, you are mistaken. You may be able to claim victory against AMFA, although I do not know why since it doesn't affect you.....

It's not about victory over AMFA. I could care less about AMFA frankly. It's you guys on this Forums page who have the obsession over it. An obsession for an ideology that has never lived up to it's expectations.

 
So PRETTY PLEASE, what happens in 9 days?

We ALL move forward. For you guys I guess dragged would be a better term?
 
 Are you suddenly going to get your pretending match back? Or will you have to wait for another town hall meeting to ask that question?

That will come in time because I honestly believe that the company has no right to use our match for anyone other than the individual's who those funds were designated for. How it comes back to us or we get it back is the question?
 
Is the TWU going to reward you because AMFA did not get on the ballot?

lol. Ridiculous.
 
Are you going to suggest that those mechanics who wanted the TWU out be punished?

Beyond NO! I'd actually like them to somehow, someway finally win you over. I just don't think with your minds set no matter what you got or what they did FOR you it would or could ever be enough?
 
I am trying to understand WHAT changes in 9 days?

We move another step forward in the process.
 
 Because if you think the word AMFA will disappear from this forum or throughout the system, I have to tell you, that is not going to happen.

Don't expect it to because obsessions are hard to overcome and I think people such as yourself are obsessed.
 
I am genuinely interested to hear from you WHAT will change in 9 days?
If it is simply because negotiations can begin, then please just say so.

Again we move forward. ALL of us.
 
I have another question for you.....
What would you consider a deal breaker contractually? I ask this because many people are tripping over themselves frothing at the mouth over the DL + 7........There is no way ANY of us are getting that WITHOUT giving something in return.... So, what would be that SOMETHING for you??

This is a good question and I do believe you are correct. I'm sorry to hear you say that people are frothing at the mouth. Stupid people's eyes get stars in them whenever they think about money. For BOTH of our groups all you have to do is look at the rest of the industry to have an idea what the company is going to more than likely ask in return for that carrot on a stick?

I honestly can't answer your question for myself if I think as an "Individual"? If I did just think as an individual it would be pretty easy. But I think when we have a TA sitting on our desks we "should" think about how it affects the collective and make a balanced decision what we chose to put our check mark next to. I'm not naive in the slightest about how many people are going to do that though.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Your pension is almost two billion underfund, can you not see what has been put out from AA and the TWU?

How many times do I have to post it?

American Airlines is making record profits and the pension is frozen. There is no reason for it to be underfunded except by design. 

 

[700UW]

American Airlines is making record profits and the pension is frozen. There is no reason for it to be underfunded except by design. 

Guess you didnt get business training when you sucked off my tax dollars to go back to school.
 
 

The asset values in the chart above are measured as of the first day of the Plan Year. They also are “actuarial values”.
 
Actuarial values differ from market values in that they do not fluctuate daily based on changes in the stock or other markets.
 
Actuarial values smooth out those fluctuations and can allow for more predictable levels of future contributions. Despite the fluctuations,market values tend to show a clearer picture of a plan’s funded status at a given point in time.
 
As of December 31, 2014, the fair market value of the Plan’s assets was estimated at $3,747,000,000.
 
On this same date, the Plan’s liabilities, determined using market rates, were estimated at $5,610,000,000.
 
For this purpose, liabilities were calculated based on a discount rate of approximately 4.19% as mandated by ERISA. This liability calculation is not the same methodology provided by Pension Protection Act of 2006 (PPA) airline relief rules which is the basis for the funded status calculated on page one of this notice.
 

 

 
 
http://c.hub.aa.com/...61_apfn_twu.pdf
 

 
 
 

AMR By the Numbers
Plans: 4
Total workers and retirees: about 130,000
Estimated pension assets: about $8.3 billion
Estimated benefits owed: about $18.5 billion
Estimated amount Insured by PBGC, if pension plans fail: About $17 billion
Premiums paid to date from AMR to PBGC: about $260 million
 

 
 
 

http://www.pbgc.gov/...r-pensions.html

 

[Vortilon]

So tell us what happens in 10 days? Anti TWU mechanics are going to rally around the TWU?
Is fleet service magically going to dominate the airline industry?
Tell us what happens in 10 days? It will never end our desire to rid ourselves of the worthless union that claims to represent us...If not AMFA, then another union. Could be any union...Could be the Credit Union for all I care.
 
So what happens in 10 days? How does Fleet Service celebrate in 10 days? What's the plan? Gonna beg for a contract that will propel fleet service to the top?
 
So please tell us, how does the world change for WeAAsles in 10 days? Gonna dance the Irish jig singing "ding dong, Amfa is dead?

 
MetalMover, this character known as "weaasles" is clearly on the international's payroll.  Complete with a fabricated back story in an attempt to portray the character "weasles" as just another random baggage handler - based in MIA.  The chartacter just happens to be very opinionated, and seems to have an unusual interest in what AA's AMTs are up to.  It could happen? Yeah, not so much.  One could maybe believe a passing interest; however, weaasles is a relentless TWU cool aid drinking, zealot.  I hope the TWU is paying this individual well - with our dues money - considering all the time the character known as weaasles has spent on this board posting.