No to the Alliance!

[WeAAsles]

and the AA TWU plan is fully funded only because AA was able to freeze its plans under the Pension Protection Act which was provided to airlines to discourage termination.

In the last two years before AA's exit from BK, the AA/TWU plan was funded at 85%.

and as a reminder, the disbursement rules for PBGC terminated pensions are not the same as those if the sponsoring company retains them.

It isn't certain that the IAM could qualify for the reduced funding provided to airlines under the PPA or if they would be free to change the disbursement rules.

A Comet must be about to strike the Earth because I'm in agreement with WT?

 

[WorldTraveler]

I noticed that too.

see, when we are on the right subject, there is agreement!

have no fear! earth will fly clear.

 

[scorpion 2]

A Comet must be about to strike the Earth because I'm in agreement with WT?

You are one desperate SOB.  

 

[chilokie1]

We can debate forever on what plan is funded and which is not, that is 
not the issue. The TWU, IAM & AA would not go forward with the association
unless they have a plan already in place to deal with huge difference in the
two pension plans. 
From day one I questioned TWU's reasoning for agreeing to the association, 
the reasons or excuses given on this forum made little sense either.
Why would the TWU allow the IAM to be in control the first two years knowing
the joint contract negotiations will be started in that time.
The IAM has claimed it has never moved its memberships company pension 
into the IAM pension, this maybe true but not from the lack or trying.
The TWU leadership will not sign a statement that our AA pension will never 
be part of the joint negotiations and a deal killer if it is.
We hear the GPGC will not allow our pension fund moved to the IAM fund 
because it is underfunded, now we hear it it 100% funded & the new guidelines 
make it easier to do so. (that is how I read it anyway).
 So what does this all mean? 
This is what I think, not what anyone has told me or I read it anywhere.
100% my own thoughts !
AA will come to the table with a better deal then we think for pay & benefits,
but the AA pension trust and liability goes to the IAM plan.
 The IAM will jump all over it and the TWU will spin the IAM plan enough to
make it sound like a great deal. "How can you turn down Delta+7 Brother?"
 Then in the next two years we will be under the TWU, and right about the 
time all this spending shows up on the bottom line, and true to their reputation
the TWU gives back all our gains. "They can do that Brother!!".
 Just one humble mechanics thoughts.

 

[WeAAsles]

We can debate forever on what plan is funded and which is not, that is 
not the issue. The TWU, IAM & AA would not go forward with the association
unless they have a plan already in place to deal with huge difference in the
two pension plans. 
From day one I questioned TWU's reasoning for agreeing to the association, 
the reasons or excuses given on this forum made little sense either.
Why would the TWU allow the IAM to be in control the first two years knowing
the joint contract negotiations will be started in that time.
The IAM has claimed it has never moved its memberships company pension 
into the IAM pension, this maybe true but not from the lack or trying.
The TWU leadership will not sign a statement that our AA pension will never 
be part of the joint negotiations and a deal killer if it is.
We hear the GPGC will not allow our pension fund moved to the IAM fund 
because it is underfunded, now we hear it it 100% funded & the new guidelines 
make it easier to do so. (that is how I read it anyway).
 So what does this all mean? 
This is what I think, not what anyone has told me or I read it anywhere.
100% my own thoughts !
AA will come to the table with a better deal then we think for pay & benefits,
but the AA pension trust and liability goes to the IAM plan.
 The IAM will jump all over it and the TWU will spin the IAM plan enough to
make it sound like a great deal. "How can you turn down Delta+7 Brother?"
 Then in the next two years we will be under the TWU, and right about the 
time all this spending shows up on the bottom line, and true to their reputation
the TWU gives back all our gains. "They can do that Brother!!".
 Just one humble mechanics thoughts.

Maybe you should try "reading" all the information in the links that have been provided for your educational awareness?

Oh and using Archie Bunker as your avatar isn't helping your cause. The character wasn't very bright and he certainly lacked any humility.

 

[WeAAsles]

You are one desperate SOB.

I'm not the one trying to sell air bro. Your finish line is fast approaching.

10 Days left.

 

[Buck]

As of January 1, 2014, the TWU Plan’s funded status was at 100.73 percent of the target.

 

[dfw gen]

As of January 1, 2014, the TWU Plan’s funded status was at 100.73 percent of the target.

so their pockets are full and they cant milk us for any more?

 

[scorpion 2]

I'm not the one trying to sell air bro. Your finish line is fast approaching.

10 Days left.

Why are you so desperate to make sure our coattail doesn't disappear? I have never in my life seen an adult act like a stray dog more than you. This is quite bizarre how a grown man can beg and plead like you have for mechanics not to leave. If you are that insecure about losing a coattail then get a new profession. Your pathetic and an embarrassment to all in your craft n class the way your finger nails are dug into the backs of the AMT's. I'm sorry for your situation but we all choose our destiny and obviously you have chosen yours with regret.

 

[scorpion 2]

 

I left nothing out. I merely posted the information that was presented. After doing some research you are correct by reading this link I found. The attempt was made and turned down by the PBGC who was asked to foot the bill for the underfunding.
 
The PBGC should have the authority and willingness to implement creative labor-management solutions to preserve pension benefits. At United Airlines, the IAM and United negotiated a proposal that would have included restoration funding by the PBGC and transferring United’s pension liabilities to the IAM National Pension Plan. It would have left United in substantially the same position as it is today, following termination, and would have saved the PBGC $500 million dollars while preserving pension benefits for our members. Unfortunately, the PBGC rejected the deal.

http://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/rrtest060705.pdf

Now if you read the letter in full you'll see that the IAM had proposed to UAL in 2000 that they FREEZE the plan and transfer their members into the IAMPF going forward.

In 2005 from reading the letter rather than the pensions being thrown on the PBGC now that UAL had underfunded them, the IAM DID propose to take over the entirety of the pension plans. If you look at the financials of the PBGC it is almost catastrophically underfunded. There is a very strong future likelihood that absent a taxpayer bailout, substantial raising of the insurance premiums charged to companies or "Reduction In Payouts" the PBGC will likely one day become insolvent. Can you guess which one will likely take place one day?

So the way I look at it the IAM sought to preserve as much as they could of that Pension and the liabilities since it was going to be thrown into a riskier proposition anyway and take on that fund by putting it into the IAMPF.

Ours is currently frozen and is no longer at risk of being thrown on the PBGC. Plus the company made accelerated payments to the tune of an extra $700 Million dollars above obligations for 2014. Trying to compare Apples and Oranges against the two very different scenarios doesn't quite stack up.  

 
 
 

bump
 
Thanks for posting this desperate attempt by the iamnpf to score an airline pension trust.
Do you have any more examples? 

 

[Buck]

so their pockets are full and they cant milk us for any more?

I posted this in hopes of stopping or slowing down the arguing on the funding for the AA Frozen Pension. 

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

AA's DB plans even if frozen are still guaranteed by the PBGC just as are DL/NW's.

second, it is because of pension underfunding that the PBGC can and does have the right to determine the disposition of DB plans including transfer to other entities.

It is easier to recover underfunding from a company than it is from a union. Even though the law might allow a pension rescue by a union based fund, it is far more difficult to recover pension losses from a union than a company.

if the AA/TWU pension is fully funded, then that is a different story - but my statement is still correct that the PBGC is highly unlikely to allow an underfunded single airline pension to be transferred to a union based multi-employer pension.

 
Please provide a link to support these assertions -
 
Specifically how the PBGC has any say on any merger activity possibly associated with Americans pension.
 
Americans pension is frozen, it is not under PBGC trusteeship.
 
Unions are not liable for pension underfunding - Labor has some say in the appointment of plan trustees but Multi-employer plans like the IAMNPP are not a part of the Union proper

 

[WeAAsles]

As of January 1, 2014, the TWU Plan’s funded status was at 100.73 percent of the target.

Why are you having such a difficult time understanding the word "TARGET"?

 

[WeAAsles]

bump
 
Thanks for posting this desperate attempt by the iamnpf to score an airline pension trust.
Do you have any more examples?

Really? Having so much difficulty selling your own crummy product that you're begging for my help? Jeez it really is that bad huh?

 

[WeAAsles]

I'd rather be a loser trying to better my craft than being a good little union mouthpiece who supports whatever his beloved  TWU wants.Not always. I have voted no in my career.
 
Doesn't matter what you voted in the past. You are cheerleading for the the TWU and bashing AMFA as if your life depended on it.
We all get it, you adore the TWU because your fleet service group is at the top.Have you seen the current Fleet BASE rates of UAL, DL and SWA. Comparing ourselves only to them, we're at the bottom. But thankfully I also don't work for any subcontracting company who's employees are well below me. 
 
You may be at the bottom now, but historically you have not been. Mechanics at AA have been near bottom longer than fleet has. 
You fit right in where the bus driver union wants you to be. What do you have against Bus drivers? Sounds rather elitist again?
 
I have nothing against Bus drivers. But this is THEIR union. The ATD is merely a small piece of it. Especially at the MTA, they are doing better than ALL of us as far as pension and benefits go. So, once again we see the TWU doing a better job of representing the transit workers than the airline workers. 
 
How many jobs has TWU (All the issues since the 1978 deregulation act)  lost for your group? Remember cabin service? Facilities cleaners? Remember all the smaller stations staffed by fleet?I remember all those jobs quite well.
 
So deregulation is the lone cause of job loss at AA? The TWU had nothing to do with the loss of ANY jobs at AA.  Wow you will defend the TWU to the end, won't you?
 
 I'd rather be labelled a loser striving for to rid myself of a worthless union than being a TWU sheep who supports a union that screws some its members in favor of others.So why do you support AMFA then? 
 
Tell us, where has AMFA screwed its members in favor of others?  Don't use SWA as an example...They were created with outsourcing ....
Are you going to deny that the TWU had catered to Fleet/Cabin service prior to MX getting our own locals? You know, when we could;t get mechanics elected to any position of power? All negotiators where either fleet service or a/c cleaners?
Were you at AA for those decades?

Sorry not interested in riding your Merry Go Round again. It just gives me too much gas.

10 more days and I will get me some Tums.