No to the Alliance!

[WeAAsles]

What I think is crazy is saying that the much smaller IAM membership has control of the Association wher they can take our pension and use it to fund raises for their members. Its also crazy how you say you want the Association because it protects the pension of the guys in the IAMNPF and are OK with the thought that your frozen pension could be cashed in to fund benefits for the IAM guys. Nothing against them but I dont want to see my pension used to give them a raise.

WHERE THE HELL DID I SAY THAT!!!!!!

What planet do you people live on? You're no better and no different then these AMFA acolytes who want to spill out all sorts of crap and see if you can make it stick on a wall.

I DO NOT support anything happening with my frozen Pension. I DO NOT support my pension being touched by ANYONE. I don't even support the company unfreezing it unless it was 100% funded AND we had access to their bank accounts to make sure it remains so before they even buy one bolt for a seat on one of their airplanes.

DO I NEED TO BE MORE SPECIFIC? OR CAN YOU READ? 

 

[WeAAsles]

Better than living as a TWU suckA$$.

Better than continuing to support a group of 52 year losers. LOSERS!!!!!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

But of course you don't care about AMFA and what the mechanics may or may not want. You are a TWU cheerleader because fleet service has done pretty good under the TWU. 
You have chosen the name WeAAsles wisely. It fits you to a tee

The mechanics DO NOT want what you are selling. If they wanted it it would have been in 52 years ago or hell sometime in between then? You couldn't get it done after the 03 concessions. You couldn't get it done after the Bankruptcy hit's and you WON"T get it done in the next 11 days. 

No sir, no way, no how, nada, zippo, nill, squat, done!!!!!

 

[Realityck]

WHERE THE HELL DID I SAY THAT!!!!!!

What planet do you people live on? You're no better and no different then these AMFA acolytes who want to spill out all sorts of crap and see if you can make it stick on a wall.

I DO NOT support anything happening with my frozen Pension. I DO NOT support my pension being touched by ANYONE. I don't even support the company unfreezing it unless it was 100% funded AND we had access to their bank accounts to make sure it remains so before they even buy one bolt for a seat on one of their airplanes.

DO I NEED TO BE MORE SPECIFIC? OR CAN YOU READ?
 
 
 
Bob, you're starting to sound like the desperate AMFA Nuts on this Blog. If you really don't understand the status of the TWU Pension issue ask your President Gary Peterson, maybe he can explain it to you. As a Treasurer of Local 591, you certainly don't impress me.

 

[scorpion 2]

The only people who are desperate are you guys who have no other choice but to tell all the readers on here that the Boogie Man is hiding in the closet and he's going to come out and get you if you fall asleep.

This is all just a FEAR tactic to try and BEG (pray) people to sign those AMFA cards because you only have another 11 days to make it happen.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

11 DAYS

Your the gentleman that posted something that completely contradicts what you and 700 have been saying. If any one had any doubts about the iamnpf taking on other pension trust funds that post removed them. It should be don't shoot the messenger but in this case it's don't shoot the reader of the message. Don't shoot me for reading your post!
Your going to get a cease and desist call from the international if you keep putting out info like that. Thanks for the enlightenment. I would have posted that weeks ago if I had known about it. Do you have anything else you could bring to the table to help us out? Weaasle wake up for goodness sake! 

 

[Hackman]

The only people who are desperate are you guys who have no other choice but to tell all the readers on here that the Boogie Man is hiding in the closet and he's going to come out and get you if you fall asleep.

This is all just a FEAR tactic to try and BEG (pray) people to sign those AMFA cards because you only have another 11 days to make it happen.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

11 DAYS

The sweetest thing here is, in 11 days you and the washed up IAm organizer 700DA won't have a vote either way (assuming the TWu list isn't rigged again).  End of discussion.
 
I wasn't here at AA in 1978 when the F/As dumped the TWu for the APFA, but I wonder if pro-TWu rampers and other non-craft and class mouthpieces interjected themselves into the representational vote for the APFA? Interesting question.
 
I find it somewhat comical and yet again troubling that those non-craft and class TWu/IAm mouthpieces who have no vote in the process despise our right to choose the union of our choice, which will be AMFA. 
 
To me, it would be a real waste of time and resources for me as a AMT to sit on a pilots or F/A thread typing out thousands of antagonistic posts day after day telling the pilots or F/As what I thought of them (elitists) or their choice of unions sucked, and how much disdain I have for the APA, ALPA. APFA, or AFA and those that support those groups. Would be base and nonsensical right? I won't be voting, no skin in the game, my opinion not wanted.
 
It looks to me a matter of TWu-IAm desperation (of course) to stop at all costs the right to choose and vote.
 
It's all about maintaining Industrial union dues flow and stealing the pension monies, and not representation.....or lack thereof for the past 50 years.

 

[Buck]

I have e-mailed the USAAMerger.com group and asked if I could double dip. (Waiting for an answer.)
 
According to their Q&A on Pesions, they are not going to take the AA Frozen Pension and anyone who joins the IAMNPF will be able to apply there credited time in a qualifying pension.
 
If they are not interested, in my AA pension should n't I be able to have the AA when I retire plus the IAMNPF with the qualifying credits when I retie under the IAMNPF rules?

 

[Hackman]

The mechanics DO NOT want what you are selling. If they wanted it it would have been in 52 years ago or hell sometime in between then? You couldn't get it done after the 03 concessions. You couldn't get it done after the Bankruptcy hit's and you WON"T get it done in the next 11 days. 

No sir, no way, no how, nada, zippo, nill, squat, done!!!!!
 
Yet, you no say in the matter nor will you have a vote!!!! None, nadda, no how, no way!!!! Sux to be you.
 
 

 

[WeAAsles]

Your the gentleman that posted something that completely contradicts what you and 700 have been saying. If any one had any doubts about the iamnpf taking on other pension trust funds that post removed them. It should be don't shoot the messenger but in this case it's don't shoot the reader of the message. Don't shoot me for reading your post!
Your going to get a cease and desist call from the international if you keep putting out info like that. Thanks for the enlightenment. I would have posted that weeks ago if I had known about it. Do you have anything else you could bring to the table to help us out? Weaasle wake up for goodness sake!

Do the research for what the IAMPF would have to do under current PBGC rules if they were to take on the liabilities of a pension fund that is currently underfunded by 2 Billion with projected underfunding future liabilities of 5 Billion (If I got that letter right)

They would have to slash payments for ALL (Not just US) future beneficiaries going forward to remain in the green zone status.

Common sense says they are NOT going to take over anyone's liabilities for some cockamamie scheme to fund raises at a cost neutral basis. No matter who's trying to sell you on it.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have e-mailed the USAAMerger.com group and asked if I could double dip. (Waiting for an answer.)
 
According to their Q&A on Pesions, they are not going to take the AA Frozen Pension and anyone who joins the IAMNPF will be able to apply there credited time in a qualifying pension.

Buck that is for vesting ONLY. When you hired on at AA you had to get in the equivalent of 5 FULL TIME years of service to be able to qualify for a Pension. If you didn't reach that vesting when you left the company what was contributed in your name would be returned to you in a lump sum check and nothing more.

The IAM is going to waive that restriction and from day one (IF YOU BECOME A PARTICIPANT) you will begin to accrue benefits. Doesn't matter how much time you have in the company. However many years you had at AA (vested) when your Pension was frozen is what you'll recieve and if you get in say 5 years in the IAMPF (IF YOU BECOME A PARTICIPANT) you would add that on to what you're getting from your AA pension.

You're not double dipping.
 
If they are not interested, in my AA pension should n't I be able to have the AA when I retire plus the IAMNPF with the qualifying credits when I retie under the IAMNPF rules?

If you retired the day after you decided to join the IAMPF (IF YOU BECOME A PARTICIPANT) do you really think they are going to give you your full years of credited service worth of cash? Of course not.

 

[WeAAsles]

 

The mechanics DO NOT want what you are selling. If they wanted it it would have been in 52 years ago or hell sometime in between then? You couldn't get it done after the 03 concessions. You couldn't get it done after the Bankruptcy hit's and you WON"T get it done in the next 11 days. 

No sir, no way, no how, nada, zippo, nill, squat, done!!!!!
 
Yet, you no say in the matter nor will you have a vote!!!! None, nadda, no how, no way!!!! Sux to be you.
 
 

 

Neither will you.

 

[700UW]

Underfunded?
My Annual Funding Notice that came in the mail last week says its 100.73% funded.

Your TWU pension is almost $2 billion underfunded.
 
Read the notice again.
 

The asset values in the chart above are measured as of the first day of the Plan Year. They also are “actuarial values”.
 
Actuarial values differ from market values in that they do not fluctuate daily based on changes in the stock or other markets.
 
Actuarial values smooth out those fluctuations and can allow for more predictable levels of future contributions. Despite the fluctuations,market values tend to show a clearer picture of a plan’s funded status at a given point in time.
 
As of December 31, 2014, the fair market value of the Plan’s assets was estimated at $3,747,000,000.
 
On this same date, the Plan’s liabilities, determined using market rates, were estimated at $5,610,000,000.
 
For this purpose, liabilities were calculated based on a discount rate of approximately 4.19% as mandated by ERISA. This liability calculation is not the same methodology provided by Pension Protection Act of 2006 (PPA) airline relief rules which is the basis for the funded status calculated on page one of this notice.
 

 

http://c.hub.aa.com/...61_apfn_twu.pdf
 

 

AMR By the Numbers
Plans: 4
Total workers and retirees: about 130,000
Estimated pension assets: about $8.3 billion
Estimated benefits owed: about $18.5 billion
Estimated amount Insured by PBGC, if pension plans fail: About $17 billion
Premiums paid to date from AMR to PBGC: about $260 million
 

http://www.pbgc.gov/...r-pensions.html

 

[Hackman]

Neither will you.

We will see soon. Your TWu International buddies should have signed the latest IAm thieving of the pension letter. Getting a lot of AMFA cards signed on that mistake...oops.  Won't sign it because it's a lie.

 

[scorpion 2]

 

I left nothing out. I merely posted the information that was presented. After doing some research you are correct by reading this link I found. The attempt was made and turned down by the PBGC who was asked to foot the bill for the underfunding.
 
The PBGC should have the authority and willingness to implement creative labor-management solutions to preserve pension benefits. At United Airlines, the IAM and United negotiated a proposal that would have included restoration funding by the PBGC and transferring United’s pension liabilities to the IAM National Pension Plan. It would have left United in substantially the same position as it is today, following termination, and would have saved the PBGC $500 million dollars while preserving pension benefits for our members. Unfortunately, the PBGC rejected the deal.

http://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/rrtest060705.pdf

Now if you read the letter in full you'll see that the IAM had proposed to UAL in 2000 that they FREEZE the plan and transfer their members into the IAMPF going forward.

In 2005 from reading the letter rather than the pensions being thrown on the PBGC now that UAL had underfunded them, the IAM DID propose to take over the entirety of the pension plans. If you look at the financials of the PBGC it is almost catastrophically underfunded. There is a very strong future likelihood that absent a taxpayer bailout, substantial raising of the insurance premiums charged to companies or "Reduction In Payouts" the PBGC will likely one day become insolvent. Can you guess which one will likely take place one day?

So the way I look at it the IAM sought to preserve as much as they could of that Pension and the liabilities since it was going to be thrown into a riskier proposition anyway and take on that fund by putting it into the IAMPF.

Ours is currently frozen and is no longer at risk of being thrown on the PBGC. Plus the company made accelerated payments to the tune of an extra $700 Million dollars above obligations for 2014. Trying to compare Apples and Oranges against the two very different scenarios doesn't quite stack up.  

 
 
 

Thanks again for posting!
Do you have any cards? 

 

[WeAAsles]

We will see soon. Your TWu International buddies should have signed the latest IAm thieving of the pension letter. Getting a lot of AMFA cards signed on that mistake...oops.  Won't sign it because it's a lie.

Yea, ok. Sure. I'll wait for it then. <_<