That's right, Bob. They need to cut costs or increase revenue. Do you have some magic formula that allows an airline to increase revenue, say 10%-15% overnight? Because if you do, you need to shed that mechanic's toolbelt and get yourself to Wall Street. You're about to become a billionaire because there's no person on the planet that can do that. And if you don't then.......
We're back to reality. You have to cut costs down to your competitors. Since you can add 30%+25% and get 55%, you can realize that there's another 45% that can be cut elsewhere. In AMR's case it's actually 57%. Well, you can't magically make fuel prices go down, especially when you don't have cash to hedge. So that leaves 75% of your airline's costs to cover 100% of what's needed to bring expenses down. And you're saying that 30% of that 75% should fold their arms and say not me? Hmmm......
Bob, when all the other cost cutting is done, it's going to come to labor. And if you're going to fold your hands and say, "full pay to the last day," you're going to be out of a job. Just wait and see what happens to 20,000 IAM members here at UAL in a few days if they do the same. I hope for their sake their local economies can absorb 20,000 people who are really good at loading airplanes and answering the phone for $10-20/hour with full benefits because I know my local economy won't.
So you are claiming that the numbers submitted to the SEC tell the whole story?
Um, Bob. I'm telling you that if any of those numbers were made up, my CEO goes to prison. That's what I'm telling you. I'm also telling you that my union has had access to the books, and BOTH the IAM and the AFA had access to the books because they didn't "believe" the numbers either. After they got to "see," they were awfully quiet. Whaddya think, Bob? You think between those 3 unions, a creditors' committee, a bankruptcy judge, and the SEC, we just might have a insy-tinsy bit of an idea what's going on with the company's finanicals? You're not really suggesting, Bob, that the numbers are lying to ALL of us Bob, are you? Because if you are.......De Nile isn't just a river in Africa, and it sounds like it flows through Dallas.......
I'm not degrading your skills but now that they, and apparently you, are content to offer the public airplanes that are "adequately" maintained, maybe with all the sophisticated automated control of aircraft they will also settle for "adequate pilots"?
Absolutely. There's no doubt in mind that the industry will settle for "adequate" pilots as well. Part of the reason many talented people come to fly airplanes is for the END compensation level. If the END compensation level drops to the point where there are better places for smart, talented, college educated people to earn a living, especially considering the great EXTRA expense pilots have to endure in both college, flight training, and years at jobs at pay levels that would make a first year flight attendant blush, then absolutely, Bob. There will be less talented pilots in our future. Just like maintenance. Just like the lackluster management the airline industry attracts. The question is, what is the public willing to endure? One extra crash a year? Two? 150 people die every day driving their cars around on U.S. roads and highways. Maybe that will become the aviation accepted norm? The public will determine what's "adequate" and pay accordingly.
Bob, I'm done going in circles with you-this is taking way too much time. You position is basically that there's never any reason for YOU (labor) to give anything up because it's all a scam, the industry is cyclical, airlines never need to restructure because the industry doesn't change, and you're better off fighting because somehow that's going to magically keep your wages up when the low cost airlines are cutting them all around you. Good luck over there, Bob. And like I said before, if you represent your union's mentality, I hope you and your peers are saving for a rainy day. You're going to need it. And if UAL makes it out of this mess, I guess we'll have Chicago to ourselves very soon.
We're back to reality. You have to cut costs down to your competitors. Since you can add 30%+25% and get 55%, you can realize that there's another 45% that can be cut elsewhere. In AMR's case it's actually 57%. Well, you can't magically make fuel prices go down, especially when you don't have cash to hedge. So that leaves 75% of your airline's costs to cover 100% of what's needed to bring expenses down. And you're saying that 30% of that 75% should fold their arms and say not me? Hmmm......
Bob, when all the other cost cutting is done, it's going to come to labor. And if you're going to fold your hands and say, "full pay to the last day," you're going to be out of a job. Just wait and see what happens to 20,000 IAM members here at UAL in a few days if they do the same. I hope for their sake their local economies can absorb 20,000 people who are really good at loading airplanes and answering the phone for $10-20/hour with full benefits because I know my local economy won't.
So you are claiming that the numbers submitted to the SEC tell the whole story?
Um, Bob. I'm telling you that if any of those numbers were made up, my CEO goes to prison. That's what I'm telling you. I'm also telling you that my union has had access to the books, and BOTH the IAM and the AFA had access to the books because they didn't "believe" the numbers either. After they got to "see," they were awfully quiet. Whaddya think, Bob? You think between those 3 unions, a creditors' committee, a bankruptcy judge, and the SEC, we just might have a insy-tinsy bit of an idea what's going on with the company's finanicals? You're not really suggesting, Bob, that the numbers are lying to ALL of us Bob, are you? Because if you are.......De Nile isn't just a river in Africa, and it sounds like it flows through Dallas.......
I'm not degrading your skills but now that they, and apparently you, are content to offer the public airplanes that are "adequately" maintained, maybe with all the sophisticated automated control of aircraft they will also settle for "adequate pilots"?
Absolutely. There's no doubt in mind that the industry will settle for "adequate" pilots as well. Part of the reason many talented people come to fly airplanes is for the END compensation level. If the END compensation level drops to the point where there are better places for smart, talented, college educated people to earn a living, especially considering the great EXTRA expense pilots have to endure in both college, flight training, and years at jobs at pay levels that would make a first year flight attendant blush, then absolutely, Bob. There will be less talented pilots in our future. Just like maintenance. Just like the lackluster management the airline industry attracts. The question is, what is the public willing to endure? One extra crash a year? Two? 150 people die every day driving their cars around on U.S. roads and highways. Maybe that will become the aviation accepted norm? The public will determine what's "adequate" and pay accordingly.
Bob, I'm done going in circles with you-this is taking way too much time. You position is basically that there's never any reason for YOU (labor) to give anything up because it's all a scam, the industry is cyclical, airlines never need to restructure because the industry doesn't change, and you're better off fighting because somehow that's going to magically keep your wages up when the low cost airlines are cutting them all around you. Good luck over there, Bob. And like I said before, if you represent your union's mentality, I hope you and your peers are saving for a rainy day. You're going to need it. And if UAL makes it out of this mess, I guess we'll have Chicago to ourselves very soon.
You guys are all SOOOO Pathetic to let UniTED management manipulate your lives!!!!! :down: 
