new service from MIA to MXP

[kirkpatrick]

what the mileage btwn sin n atl and what is sin airport...

9963 mi, 16033 km. Singapore.

MK

 

[WorldTraveler]

the emirates air i wonder if that is a dubai milan jfk run and return? i did not know a foreign carrier thats not associated with european can do a us eurpe run

yes, it is the continuation of a DXB-MXP flight. As you probably know, the Gulf airlines are a huge threat to the European airline industry because the Gulf hubs compete in many markets from Europe to Asia, Africa, the Middle East, and Australia.

The US, EU and UAE all have Open Skies which generally does mean carriers can operate flights between each other's markets... .in this case, the UAE does have the rights to operate flights from the US to Europe; they just haven't done it in the past. Singapore Air has long operated a flight from FRA-JFK that originates in SIN with full rights between Europe and the US.

But the Italian economy is in poor shape and the combined addition of foreign carrier and AA's new service could have implications for the MXP market.
Given that the Florida market is a large portion of the US-Europe market in the winter and B6 is a partner with Emirates, additional capacity at JFK by EK could well impact the viability of all of the US-MXP market but also make it a lot harder for AA to get this route started.

 

[robbedagain]

thanks kirkpat

it sure will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out

 

[xUT]

thanks kirkpat

it sure will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out

Great Circle Mapper
B) xUT

 

[700UW]

You know the funny thing is that DL has a 757 operating from JFK to Dakar,Senegal tonite and it will come back tomorrow....and it will do that flight dozens more times before the summer and the year is out.

Delta.com has this neat little flight tracking thingy so you can see if the flight makes it there and back. They probably feel pretty sure it will 'cause they have done it for a couple of years.

At 8 hrs and 45 minutes on the return, it is far from one of the longest 757 flights.

Is there some reason why DL can do this flight from JFK but AA-US could not do it from PHL?

There are several other cities in western Africa that are within a few hundred miles of the distance of JFK- Dakar.

then again, not every airline has operated an A330 on an 18 1/2 hr flight like DL has done.

Maybe they not only smoke something down there in Hotlanta but they put it in the jet fuel of their aircraft... probably a secret additive from that refinery near Philly.

I’m not sure how a thread that started about AA’s new service MIA-MXP (which hasn’t even been discussed) has become a debate about DL’s maintenance practices but, noting the disconnect from the original thread, I’ll play along.

I’ve never said that DL operated the longest flight with the A330 but that the SIN-ATL flight was one of the longest DL operated and certainly one of the longest with the A330, specifically because I am aware of the QF delivery flight.

But since the QF flight happened years ago, it is not recent news. While the QF flight was longer, DL’s flight was a notable accomplishment for the A330 and one which I still believe was part of a publicity effort which DL and Airbus arranged as part of DL’s negotiations regarding potentially buying more A330s.

Because DL made the commitment to only operate transpacific flights on aircraft with lie flat business class and seats and updated coach cabins (including AVOD at every seat), DL does not currently operate the A330 across the Pacific so this repositioning flight could not have been operated as a revenue flight without swapping out a scheduled Boeing flight somewhere along the route; since there are no scheduled A330 pilot crews in Asia, the only way the aircraft could have been staffed would have been to deadhead pilots or operate the aircraft only as far as the crew could have legally flown in a day and then overnight the aircraft with the crew until they became legal to fly again. And DL still would have had to deadhead the scheduled pilots “over” the segment the A330 operated or ferry the Boeing.

Since DL has done maintenance on its 767 and 744 fleets in Asia for a number of years and operates a fleet of Asian-based 757s which do not regularly cross the Pacific in revenue service and yet DL has operated revenue flights to/from Asia for maintenance visits between the US and Asia involving all of these fleet types, DL understands the concept of minimizing ferry time and maximizing revenue production.
As is typical with so many armchair internet experts – in many subjects – judgment is made based on one piece of information without considering a host of other factors.

The fact is the aircraft was in SIN and needed to be back in ATL and there was no way to get it back as a revenue flight w/o creating a lot of operational disruption including ferrying other aircraft which would have added even more costs.

Given that CO, DL, NW, and UA all have a history of doing heavy maintenance in Asia and AA has now decided to join them on a large scale, the real issue is why have we not discussed – and castigated – those airlines for flying empty planes to/from their maintenance visits? Latin American companies also do maintenance on US carrier aircraft which means there are many aircraft flying for those maintenance visits, yet seemingly without outrage. And why should they get a pass? And let’s not forget that AA regularly ferries/ferried aircraft between TUL and its former maintenance base at FTW (which has no commercial service with AA aircraft) to its other hubs, yet again without outrage.

I don’t expect an aviation chat forum that is heavily populated by labor supporters will ever agree that overseas maintenance is an acceptable norm in the industry, but it does happen and it requires that aircraft be ferried between the US and Asia.

Now, do you suppose we could have just one response that is somehow related to AA’s addition of MIA-MXP or some other AA route, past, present, or hoped for?

Please post the facts (there arent any) about DL and Airbus cooperating on the ferry flight, you are full of it and just speculating.


Once again you are the one who took it off topic and posted about DL flying the A332 from SIN-ATL.

 

[Kev3188]

I’m not sure how a thread that started about AA’s new service MIA-MXP (which hasn’t even been discussed) has become a debate about DL’s maintenance practices ....

Here, let me help you with that...

You know the funny thing is that DL has a 757 operating from JFK to Dakar,Senegal tonite and it will come back tomorrow....and it will do that flight dozens more times before the summer and the year is out.

Delta.com has this neat little flight tracking thingy so you can see if the flight makes it there and back. They probably feel pretty sure it will 'cause they have done it for a couple of years.

At 8 hrs and 45 minutes on the return, it is far from one of the longest 757 flights.

Is there some reason why DL can do this flight from JFK but AA-US could not do it from PHL?

There are several other cities in western Africa that are within a few hundred miles of the distance of JFK- Dakar.

then again, not every airline has operated an A330 on an 18 1/2 hr flight like DL has done.

Maybe they not only smoke something down there in Hotlanta but they put it in the jet fuel of their aircraft... probably a secret additive from that refinery near Philly.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Please post the facts (there aren't any) about DL and Airbus cooperating on the ferry flight, you are full of it and just speculating.
Once again you are the one who took it off topic and posted about DL flying the A332 from SIN-ATL.

I didn’t say there were facts... but I did say that I believe there is an Airbus connection to this.... if you don’t believe there is, then that is fine.... but it doesn’t change that you and others have completely failed to understand the basic elements of even determining whether it was worth flying the aircraft nonstop as a ferry vs making several stops in revenue service... whether Airbus was involved is immaterial if the rest of the facts, and they are facts, aren’t even considered correctly.

Here, let me help you with that...

Either you have 700 on ignore and his posts don’t appear to you or you chose to ignore his posts to the exclusion of trying to find fault with my posts...
But let me help you figure out how it happened.
There wasn’t a SINGLE mention of Milan or MXP in the first 16 replies to the thread.. .until I raised the question of how a thread about MXP turned into a thread about FRA.
IN fact, there isn’t a single mention by anyone about MXP until I once again raised the issue again in the last few posts and then came this response.

i saw that aa will operate a 767 300 er for the mxp what do they use out of jfk to mxp

In fact, the thread lost all connection with AA and MXP by post #5 when this was posted.

Funny US has been running CLT-FRA for years successfully, and they add a second daily flight at peak travel.
Do you realize CLT is named after Queen Charlotte of Germany?

Perhaps you, Kev, can help us all understand what the origin of the name of CLT has to do with MIA, MXP, or AA.
And then it continued with

There are many airlines that have flights from secondary cities to europe, DL does it from PIT and I think PHL to CDG, RDU to LHR on AA are ones right off the top of my head.
BOS isnt a hub and there are us carriers flying to europe from there.
Dont you remember CLT-LGW was awarded and flown till after the merger TPA-CLT-LGW?

Which again has what to do with MIA, AA, or MXP?
Just like this:

DL didnt take over Air France.
DL bought Singapore Airlines' share in Virgin Atlantic which is still waiting approval from regulators.

You obviously also missed that the whole reason why the A330 was brought into the conversation was because I noted that new AA will have 330s in its fleet which could be used to expand its network from PHL, and the 757 could also be used for service to Africa, something which 700 boldly asserted could not be done – even though DL does it with significant regularity.
Perhaps, I’ve missed something here, Kev so I’ll ask you to show us where MIA-MXP was discussed by anyone else on this thread other than the OP, me, and robbed.

Neither you or 700 has STILL contributed anything to the discussion about MXP-MIA.

 

[robbedagain]

please remember i also took it off a lit bit when i said it was a waste to ferry a 330 from sin to atl when the interior decorating could be done in house and yes i did say that but i did put it back on track sort of..

how long is the flight from mia to mxp projected to be and will they have to fly up the east coast and turn out over the atlantic off the coast of maine and canada?

 

[WorldTraveler]

it is kind of you to 'fess up but the reality is that forums threads go all over the place... you demonstrate positive character traits that others don't seem to have....

and you have actually contributed to the discussion. I'm sure the OP had greater hopes for this thread than what it turned out to be.

The MXP-MIA leg, which is longer than eastbound, is scheduled for 11 hr 15 min in December.

The routing will probably remain well off but parallel the N. American coast until the flight turns east.

Westbound flights from southern Europe can operate fairly far south depending on the winds.

 

[eolesen]

WT, you crack me up. You take threads on 90^ tangents all the time just by mentioning DL,......

 

[700UW]

MIA-FRA should be next

The second post in the thread discussed MIA-FRA and I commented on it.

And your first post in the thread:

interesting that the thread is about MIA-MXP and yet nearly - if not all - of the responses are a chest-thumping exercise about German routes which weren't chosen.

AA's relatively small presence in Germany is precisely because Germany is a much larger market for a competitor's alliance partner and a large part of AA's network to continental Europe competes against that US carrier. AB whether in oneworld or not is now known for its ability to attract business passengers which is exactly the type of business passengers AA needs to make int'l routes work.

The benefit of MXP-MIA is the connections to the rest of Latin America which is what the MIA hub does best - and MXP does have a fairly high concentration of business passengers. And Italians also happen to enjoy Florida for both business and personal reasons.

Tourism-heavy routes between Europe and Florida are not what US carriers can profitably serve, esp. during the winter when fares can drop to a couple hundred dollars each way (based on RT purchase...)

 

[Kev3188]

I didn’t say there were facts... but I did say that I believe there is an Airbus connection to this.... if you don’t believe there is, then that is fine.... but it doesn’t change that you and others have completely failed to understand the basic elements of even determining whether it was worth flying the aircraft nonstop as a ferry vs making several stops in revenue service... whether Airbus was involved is immaterial if the rest of the facts, and they are facts, aren’t even considered correctly.

Either you have 700 on ignore and his posts don’t appear to you or you chose to ignore his posts to the exclusion of trying to find fault with my posts...
But let me help you figure out how it happened.
There wasn’t a SINGLE mention of Milan or MXP in the first 16 replies to the thread.. .until I raised the question of how a thread about MXP turned into a thread about FRA.
IN fact, there isn’t a single mention by anyone about MXP until I once again raised the issue again in the last few posts and then came this response.

In fact, the thread lost all connection with AA and MXP by post #5 when this was posted.

Perhaps you, Kev, can help us all understand what the origin of the name of CLT has to do with MIA, MXP, or AA.
And then it continued with

Which again has what to do with MIA, AA, or MXP?
Just like this:

You obviously also missed that the whole reason why the A330 was brought into the conversation was because I noted that new AA will have 330s in its fleet which could be used to expand its network from PHL, and the 757 could also be used for service to Africa, something which 700 boldly asserted could not be done – even though DL does it with significant regularity.
Perhaps, I’ve missed something here, Kev so I’ll ask you to show us where MIA-MXP was discussed by anyone else on this thread other than the OP, me, and robbed.

Neither you or 700 has STILL contributed anything to the discussion about MXP-MIA.

Spare us the righteous indignation...

All of that may (or may not) be off topic, but that's not what you asked. You asked how this thread came to be about DL's maintenance practices, and that's what I specifically addressed.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Three more replies that don't have any connection whatsoever with MXP-MIA or make any attempt to connect to that subject.

There are real market-based issues here and yet we have a subthread that is doing nothing more than perpetuating the same practice they accuse others of doing.

There are people who understand the challenges that face humanity and do their part in fixing them and there are people who stand on the sidelines and criticize those who are in the game, lobbing hand grenades.

Stay on focus, people.

AA is starting a route to a country that is near the epicenter of the Eurozone meltdown in the winter when few TATL routes are started anyway within weeks of when Emirates - who has already made it a clear goal to eliminate a number of the European airlines - enters the Italy-US market in a partnership with B6 who happens to have the most seats from NYC to Florida.

Is there even a small chance that one you three could address something remotely related to those issues?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Those who are still having the trouble understanding the challenge US carriers - of which AA would be one - have in finding clear air in which to fly might have a look at this article which indicates that Emirates intends to pursue transpacific opportunities right alongside the transatlantic opportunities... highlighted by AA and EK's joint introduction of TATL service - in the winter - from MXP to the US.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-04/emirates-seeks-global-supremacy-with-a380s-flying-asia-us-routes.html?cmpid=yhoo

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Those who are still having the trouble understanding the challenge US carriers - of which AA would be one - have in finding clear air in which to fly might have a look at this article which indicates that Emirates intends to pursue transpacific opportunities right alongside the transatlantic opportunities... highlighted by AA and EK's joint introduction of TATL service - in the winter - from MXP to the US.

http://www.bloomberg...html?cmpid=yhoo

I really hate to do this because it will invite a thesis-like response about the supremacy of a certain ATL-based carrier by some posters (WT and/or Spec), but nevertheless here it is: shouldn't the thought of Emirates starting T-PAC service to the USA scare DL since they would have the most to lose? Afetrall, DL is huge across the Pacific, so a good chunk of marketshare that Emirates might pick up could be DLs? No?