AA to expand domestic flying out of MIA
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robbedagain
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- Oct 13, 2003
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sorta like say how KC Royals have handled the Angels despite best recordcommavia said:As usual, Delta has everybody right where they want them ...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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uh, we've been waiting for years for this mysterious NRT-MIA route too.
I told you that I believed that in time DL would develop MIA to Latin America and I still stand by that.
MIA is a sitting duck for competition. It is the primary gateway for a global region and the only one that has service by just one US carrier.
DL has been focused on building the NE, including taking the slots which Parker gave DL and turning NYC into a DL stronghold largely at AA's expense and is now focused on the west coast where DL now has 2/3 of the market share from the west coast to Asia that UA has. Despite hearing that LAX has no more room, DL keeps adding including in key AA routes such as LAX-LHR.
DL has been busy.
They'll get to MIA-Latin America in time.
IN the meantime, having a host of low cost carriers entering S. Florida to Latin America makes it that much easier for DL to enter as those carriers, not DL will bring down fares and require AA to lower fares which stimulates the market.
and, yes, DL has a long historic presence at MIA that translates well into their current position in the market.
they didn't growth to the size they did in NYC-MIA by being an unknown name.
they can do the same thing in a whole lot of other markets.
BTW, AeroMexico is adding capacity to MIA. As a board member and owner, DL does influence AM's decisions and share in its rewards.
will fix for food
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Duke787 said:
Duke787 said:
Probably. American is taking over the hangar that Eagle now uses so they can increase work. Overnights would be my guess.Duke787 said:
Eagle is laying off about half the mechanics there.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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we're not talking about DFW.
We are talking about MIA and SLC which are each hubs for AA and DL that have not been connected except on an infrequent basis.
As I said, there is nothing stopping AA from adding ANY new route. I have simply noted that industry dynamics note that DL carries the majority of traffic from SLC to Florida and it is very likely that DL will find it worthwhile to add service either alongside AA or in another route that has the potential to deliver at least as much revenue to DL.
MIA is a strategically important enough market that DL will grow it in time but for the past several years they have focused on the NE, esp. LGA and JFK and most recently on the west via LAX and SEA. DL has had a few strategic initiatives at MIA but still carries about 1/3 of the domestic revenue to/from MIA that AA does. In time, it is a given that DL will expand its focus at MIA which has no viable large scale competitors, LCC or legacy.
In contrast, every one of DL's hubs have higher levels of competition and yet DL still gains an average fare premium on its domestic network.
As I have noted, MIA-LAX and BOS are the two most likely stations for mainline service. There are a half dozen cities within a 3 hour flight that are to cities where DL has a large presence and where they could easily fill a couple large RJs per day just on local traffic.
If DL decides to start MIA-Latin America service, it makes it all that much easier for DL to add domestic flights to feed them.
there simply are far fewer opportunities that AA can go after in gaining access to key DL markets and AA doesn't have the traffic record of gaining a presence in key DL markets to anywhere the same extent that DL has in key AA markets.
We are talking about MIA and SLC which are each hubs for AA and DL that have not been connected except on an infrequent basis.
As I said, there is nothing stopping AA from adding ANY new route. I have simply noted that industry dynamics note that DL carries the majority of traffic from SLC to Florida and it is very likely that DL will find it worthwhile to add service either alongside AA or in another route that has the potential to deliver at least as much revenue to DL.
MIA is a strategically important enough market that DL will grow it in time but for the past several years they have focused on the NE, esp. LGA and JFK and most recently on the west via LAX and SEA. DL has had a few strategic initiatives at MIA but still carries about 1/3 of the domestic revenue to/from MIA that AA does. In time, it is a given that DL will expand its focus at MIA which has no viable large scale competitors, LCC or legacy.
In contrast, every one of DL's hubs have higher levels of competition and yet DL still gains an average fare premium on its domestic network.
As I have noted, MIA-LAX and BOS are the two most likely stations for mainline service. There are a half dozen cities within a 3 hour flight that are to cities where DL has a large presence and where they could easily fill a couple large RJs per day just on local traffic.
If DL decides to start MIA-Latin America service, it makes it all that much easier for DL to add domestic flights to feed them.
there simply are far fewer opportunities that AA can go after in gaining access to key DL markets and AA doesn't have the traffic record of gaining a presence in key DL markets to anywhere the same extent that DL has in key AA markets.
\WorldTraveler said:
No, AeroMexico is just releasing a press release stating "hey, look, our seasonal redeye between MEX and MIA is back for two months."
The only actual capacity increase is one additional ERJ-190 a week to Merida.
MIA is also no longer devoid of LCC competition as Frontier begins in December and Spirit is likely just around the corner.
WorldTraveler said:
A route for which AA still doesn't have the right airplane for. It will with the 789.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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DEVOID is right.
no other hub has been as DEVOID of competition. A couple ULCC flights aren't going to tip the scale.
MIA is ripe for competitive incursions.
The growth of FLL as a Latin America gateway will force AA to be competitive or lose traffic.
It makes it a whole lot easier for DL to grow when there are lots of other carriers who are causing AA to reduce fares.
And, no, the reason why MIA-LHR doesn't make sense is not because of the plane but because it is connecting the city in the furthest corner from Asia to a hub which you and yours buds keep telling us is becoming less and less relevant, in part because of AA's buildup of DFW to Asia, where it already serves most of the largest markets in Latin America via decent connections to Asia.
Add in that AA/JL are the two weakest of the big 3 players to Japan and a strategy of trying to start a route which can be poached by every other carrier is a very weak strategy.
no other hub has been as DEVOID of competition. A couple ULCC flights aren't going to tip the scale.
MIA is ripe for competitive incursions.
The growth of FLL as a Latin America gateway will force AA to be competitive or lose traffic.
It makes it a whole lot easier for DL to grow when there are lots of other carriers who are causing AA to reduce fares.
And, no, the reason why MIA-LHR doesn't make sense is not because of the plane but because it is connecting the city in the furthest corner from Asia to a hub which you and yours buds keep telling us is becoming less and less relevant, in part because of AA's buildup of DFW to Asia, where it already serves most of the largest markets in Latin America via decent connections to Asia.
Add in that AA/JL are the two weakest of the big 3 players to Japan and a strategy of trying to start a route which can be poached by every other carrier is a very weak strategy.
AdAstraPerAspera
Veteran
Skyteam doesn't have the footprint in LatAm to ever make a dent in premium, high-value travelers that flow over AA and its numerous huge partners across South America, and it is as simple as that. But I suppose that if Delta tries to plug that hole with a money losing operation, it will be a brilliant move. Not at all like AA in TransPac.
MetalMover
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Of course! Every move DL makes is pure brilliance.AdAstraPerAspera said:
How come when I asked you about DL raiding DFW you went off saying "this isn't about DFW, it about MIA & SLC.. Then why the hell are you able to boast about NYC all the time... so since you do not hold true to what you preach, did DL raid AA's hub in DFW???????WorldTraveler said:
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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you and ad clearly don't grasp that I have never said that AA has no market strengths.
They clearly do.
and yes they held on to DFW and we were so much larger than DL that DL decided it was better off taking its assets and building NYC.
If you recall, at the time, DL was #3 in NYC behind CO and AA. DL is now the #1 domestic airline from NYC and #2 int'l behind UA, and that includes EWR.
so, yes, there are AA-sized mountains that Dl hasn't been able to overcome but DL clearly found AA's Achilles heal in NYC and went after it and won.
as for Latin America, it is precisely because DL has focused on strength markets that matter the most that DL has not gone after MIA-Latin America but I can absolutely assure you that the same local market in S. Florida to Latin America that you all say is so huge that DL can go up against and win.
And DL is right now at a bit under half of the capacity that AA has to Latin America which is not exactly insurmountable and certainly larger relative to AA in Asia.
Further, it is JUST the local market in Latin America that DL does not serve from MIA but other Skyteam and affiliated carriers do serve MIA-Latin America markets.
And I'll remind you that DL does have an equity interest in 2 of the largest Latin America markets but AA can never have a JV because it is too large. Don't think that DL and Gol and DL and AeroMexico can't do a whole lot together that will allow them to succeed in the market where AA can only use sheer mass and throwing capacity into the market.
You may have missed but Latin economies are cooling off right at the time that competition to Latin America is heating up.
Just as with DFW and DAL, AA is in a very vulnerable position having to defend its Latin network while competitors move in.
you might be surprised 5 years from now when you see how successfully other carriers including DL have pushed into Latin America
and for the record, I think AA will stick it out and have a fairly decent route system to Asia as well.
the difference is that AA will be paying a much higher price to grow in Latin America than any other carrier will pay to grow in Latin America.
as competition on other parts of AA's network heats up, it will e a whole lot harder for AA to subsidize its Asian growth.
They clearly do.
and yes they held on to DFW and we were so much larger than DL that DL decided it was better off taking its assets and building NYC.
If you recall, at the time, DL was #3 in NYC behind CO and AA. DL is now the #1 domestic airline from NYC and #2 int'l behind UA, and that includes EWR.
so, yes, there are AA-sized mountains that Dl hasn't been able to overcome but DL clearly found AA's Achilles heal in NYC and went after it and won.
as for Latin America, it is precisely because DL has focused on strength markets that matter the most that DL has not gone after MIA-Latin America but I can absolutely assure you that the same local market in S. Florida to Latin America that you all say is so huge that DL can go up against and win.
And DL is right now at a bit under half of the capacity that AA has to Latin America which is not exactly insurmountable and certainly larger relative to AA in Asia.
Further, it is JUST the local market in Latin America that DL does not serve from MIA but other Skyteam and affiliated carriers do serve MIA-Latin America markets.
And I'll remind you that DL does have an equity interest in 2 of the largest Latin America markets but AA can never have a JV because it is too large. Don't think that DL and Gol and DL and AeroMexico can't do a whole lot together that will allow them to succeed in the market where AA can only use sheer mass and throwing capacity into the market.
You may have missed but Latin economies are cooling off right at the time that competition to Latin America is heating up.
Just as with DFW and DAL, AA is in a very vulnerable position having to defend its Latin network while competitors move in.
you might be surprised 5 years from now when you see how successfully other carriers including DL have pushed into Latin America
and for the record, I think AA will stick it out and have a fairly decent route system to Asia as well.
the difference is that AA will be paying a much higher price to grow in Latin America than any other carrier will pay to grow in Latin America.
as competition on other parts of AA's network heats up, it will e a whole lot harder for AA to subsidize its Asian growth.
