New Pilot TA breakdown

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

The time is  " N O W " for...SWAPA and DALPA  to TELL ......Kelly / Anderson that................ " NO CONTRACT, NO WORK " !
 
In other words, a new contract DEADLINE  =   a NEW Contract... D E A D L I N E !
 
To put it mildly (for 'southwind and WT to understand)......................DALPA should work through the 12/31/15 deadline, wait until the heavy season bookings come in, Then...S T R I K E  the dirty bas-tards a week before Memorial Day/2016 !
 
The problem IS that Kelly and 'Richard' know, or THINK they know that to 'boys up front'  won't walk.
BUT,
If 'Richard'  et  al .... really think that the boys  W I L L walk, then wait and see how fast..... " RICHIE's " BALLS get a whole lot smaller !!!!!
 
 
AA / UA / AS  and  B6  Must be laughing themselves into a state of DELIRIUM !
 
... " F " .......Del-Duh !                                                                                       

 

[700UW]

Looks like perhaps all is not copacetic in the House of Delta.  I'm sure we'll soon hear about why (a) this was stupid of the pilots and they'll rue the day they defied RA, and ( B) why this doesn't matter at all and Delta is still on its unstoppable path to world domination.  In the meantime, it's true that this will obviously have no immediate day-to-day impact on Delta, but it will nonetheless be very interesting to see what ramifications/implications this has for the industry writ large, and in particular at Delta.

 
 

Hubris from labor? Never. Plz show us how labor ever won a showdown with airline mgmt. Psst. AMFA at NWA? Dickie signs the checks and pilots will stand in line w WN's employees waiting for the lottery

 

[metopower]

The time is  " N O W " for...SWAPA and DALPA  to TELL ......Kelly / Anderson that................ " NO CONTRACT, NO WORK " !
 
In other words, a new contract DEADLINE  =   a NEW Contract... D E A D L I N E !
 
To put it mildly (for 'southwind and WT to understand)......................DALPA should work through the 12/31/15 deadline, wait until the heavy season bookings come in, Then...S T R I K E  the dirty bas-tards a week before Memorial Day/2016 !
 
The problem IS that Kelly and 'Richard' know, or THINK they know that to 'boys up front'  won't walk.
BUT,
If 'Richard'  et  al .... really think that the boys  W I L L walk, then wait and see how fast..... " RICHIE's " BALLS get a whole lot smaller !!!!!
 
 
AA / UA / AS  and  B6  Must be laughing themselves into a state of DELIRIUM !
 
... " F " .......Del-Duh !

Had to wait for it .... But we have a winner. The stupidest comment of all. You really are out of touch. Even Kev has it right. No excitement no big talk . It's just business. My opinion ...it was just a trial balloon. It's just too early.

 

[700UW]

Fellow Delta Pilots,
 
Earlier today, we completed the membership ratification process. Voting closed at 2pm EDT and ALPA’s Election Ballot and Certification Board confirmed and certified the outcome of the tentative agreement vote. The voting results are as follows:
 
97%, or 10,713, of eligible pilots voted.
 
35%, or 3766 voted in favor of the tentative agreement.
 
65%, or 6947 voted against the tentative agreement.
 
As a result of this outcome, I have called for a special meeting of the Delta MEC on July 21. At that meeting we will determine our next step, and reassess our strategic plan. As we formulate our path, we will continue to communicate with you, the line pilot.
Your participation in this process has been, and will continue to be, central to the ideals of the member-driven union that is the hallmark of ALPA. I urge you to remain engaged.
 
The process of membership ratification and the difficult decisions involved are never easy. Emotions often run high regardless of your perspective. In the end, however, we must strive to respect the differing opinions and seek the common ground we all share as pilots. The majority has spoken, and we must move forward together.
 
In Unity,
Captain Mike Donatelli
Delta MEC Chairman
July 10, 2015
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

even from the WN participants on this forum, labor relations at WN change for the worse during contract negotiations. And WN has to negotiate with EVERY major workgroup.

The significance of this vote was that DALPA has never voted down a TA, at least according to what some have said, and that DL had a fairly significant list of things that it wanted in return for the contract. I don't know the math and neither does anyone else here but DL will lose some of what it wanted - sick leave reform, FO/training bidding processes, potential some flexibility.. the list was significant but given that alot of DL pilots said they would never give up some of those things regardless of the price, I'm not sure that money is going to make some of those things happen by vote. If anything, DL needs to implement their wish list a little slower because each issue affects a certain group of people with more issues affecting more people. Given that AA and UA already have some of the things that DL pilots thought were so terrible, the list isn't likely to go away.

The process will play out, DL will slow the process down just like WN has done and will continue to do so, DL pilots will lose some significant short-term income increases, and labor won't have much choice because the same RLA that is so often maligned here as being unable to get labor out of bad contracts is still just as capable of keeping labor from getting the big gains that labor at the top of the industry wants including DL pilots and many of WN's labor groups.

 

[700UW]

WN has already settled with the IAM, FAs (TWU) have a TA, so no they don't have EVERY group.

And this is about the DL pilots, not WN.

Amazing how you have to deflect, change and make threats when DL is portrayed badly.

 

[WorldTraveler]

In a capitalist economy, pay is determined by comparison whether a union is involved or not.

It is impossible to talk about what one person or group can get in terms of salary without talking about other groups or individuals that serve as the basis of comparison.

Resolution of conflict in the collective bargaining process absolutely incorporates comparison with workgroup peers.

and relative to DL and its pilots, it is absolutely relevant that WN pilots have not been able to get a settlement and even the WN groups that have settled have gotten low single digit improvements in compensation per year and have had to increase productivity/efficiency in the process.

DL was asking for a lot of changes from the pilots but they were being compensated at above average increases in compensation from an already pretty strong position in terms of total compensation - particularly since widebody captains at DL can make far more than WN pilots can.

Thus, comparison is not only legitimate but an established part of the process.

 

[southwind]

Wow. Just wow.

Clueless would not even be in to come close to how detached you are from what is happening at your employer.

And I quote from Kev, in post #3......
 
"Other $210m likely taken from other employee groups to fund pilot raises."


Hmmm..."
 

The time is  " N O W " for...SWAPA and DALPA  to TELL ......Kelly / Anderson that................ " NO CONTRACT, NO WORK " !
 
In other words, a new contract DEADLINE  =   a NEW Contract... D E A D L I N E !
 
To put it mildly (for 'southwind and WT to understand)......................DALPA should work through the 12/31/15 deadline, wait until the heavy season bookings come in, Then...S T R I K E  the dirty bas-tards a week before Memorial Day/2016 !
 
The problem IS that Kelly and 'Richard' know, or THINK they know that to 'boys up front'  won't walk.
BUT,
If 'Richard'  et  al .... really think that the boys  W I L L walk, then wait and see how fast..... " RICHIE's " BALLS get a whole lot smaller !!!!!
 
 
AA / UA / AS  and  B6  Must be laughing themselves into a state of DELIRIUM !
 
... " F " .......Del-Duh !                                                                                       

Get out and stay out of business that doesn't concern you!
 
 

WN has already settled with the IAM, FAs (TWU) have a TA, so no they don't have EVERY group.

And this is about the DL pilots, not WN.

Amazing how you have to deflect, change and make threats when DL is portrayed badly.

Amazing how you have to deflect, change and make threats when DL is portrayed in a positive light!

 

[WorldTraveler]

It's also interesting how much some people want to compare DL FA pay to other FAs - as long as they exclude really important stuff like profit sharing but when those topics are on the table regarding pilots including with other issues, then they don't want any comparison.

no, actually, we'll compare where it is appropriate which is almost always the case involving salary and benefits - but let's make sure that ALL of the data is used.

 

[Kev3188]

Wow. Just wow.

Clueless would not even be in to come close to how detached you are from what is happening at your employer.

He's not alone...
 
 

"Although investors reacted favorably to the news, the negative vote is a setback for Delta, which set a goal of concluding a labor deal months ahead of schedule.

In a fact sheet for pilots, the union quoted Delta's Chief Executive Officer Richard Anderson as saying, "Failure to ratify the agreement will lead to a very different and longer path that will not result in a better deal. Uncertainty will prevail, and that will not be good for anybody."

Delta said it could not confirm the comment."

Delta said it could not confirm the comment?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/10/us-delta-air-lines-workers-idUSKCN0PK29620150710

Of course they "can't confirm" it. Why help people find/verify a statement that runs counter to all of the "bargaining in good faith" language in the RLA?

As for RA himself, I can't say I blame him; FUD works so well on all the other groups, why not try it on the pilots?
 
 

The significance of this vote was that DALPA has never voted down a TA,

I was surprised to see this...

...at least according to what some have said, and that DL had a fairly significant list of things that it wanted in return for the contract.

Of course they did; that's how it always goes. From this observer's perch, it seems like another overreach on the company's part. The good news is that the pilots held their ground.

The process will play out, DL will slow the process down just like WN has done and will continue to do so, DL pilots will lose some significant short-term income increases, and labor won't have much choice because the same RLA that is so often maligned here as being unable to get labor out of bad contracts is still just as capable of keeping labor from getting the big gains that labor at the top of the industry wants including DL pilots and many of WN's labor groups.

Just from what I've been reading, I don't think the pilots are in any rush... or at least not in as big of hurry as the company is, anyway...

 

[Kev3188]

And I quote from Kev, in post #3......
 
"Other $210m likely taken from other employee groups to fund pilot raises."


Hmmm..."

Point of order: That sentence is one I quoted directly from the "TAFacts" website.

That said, it's absolutely something to make you go "hmmm" if are paying attention to what's happening at our company.

 

[WorldTraveler]

the pilots will say that they are taking money from other employee groups but the company hasn't announced what it will do with other employee groups. Wall Street wants profit sharing to come down. WN employees have higher base rates but less profit sharing than DL people so there is a good chance that DL is aiming for the balance between profit sharing and base wages that WN has. Wall Street doesn't criticize WN for the level of PS it pays - about 1-% of employee wages, IIRC.

and it is possible that the company could monetize non-pilot PS even if no adjustment is approved by the pilots; the pilots were convinced that DL employees have become very addicted to PS so the company has to convince them that they are not losing under any changes. If that really is the case, DL people will and should push back. Given that the 2012 pilot contract led to readjustment that resulted in higher salaries and profit sharing, there is no basis for the company arguing that total compensation should be reduced - and that is to a great extent why pilots say they can live with the current CBA if the company is out to reduce total compensation.

DL can't deny the statement that has been cited about a harder path forward. It is or at least visible to tens of thousands of internal DL users even if it was never released to the world.

The pilots (7000 of them anyway) and I would agree with you that the TA was an overreach - too much ask for too little gain.

as for being clueless, DL is an enormous company and there really are big differences between job functions and even locations. Still, it is a joke for a non-DL employee - and one who never has been one and doesn't have any more access to DL than any customer - to talk about being out of touch with what is going on in the company.

 

[700UW]

History repeats itself.

Pilots agree to a 33% cut in profit sharing in June of 2012 and got a 20% raise from June of 2012 till the end of 2014.

While the non-union employees had their profit sharing cut by 33% by Delta, and only got anywhere from a 4% to 8% raise over the same time frame.
 
And if you dont believe the company would once again cut the non-union profit sharing if the Pilots ratified, I got a bridge for sale in Brooklyn for you, or would you prefer ocean front property in Arizona?

While you are at it, go find a bin stretcher, some prop wash and a chock hammer.

 

[southwind]

History repeats itself.



While you are at it, go find a bin stretcher, some prop wash and a chock hammer.

Or, a pilot's license!

 

[dariencc]

as for being clueless, DL is an enormous company and there really are big differences between job functions and even locations. Still, it is a joke for a non-DL employee - and one who never has been one and doesn't have any more access to DL than any customer - to talk about being out of touch with what is going on in the company.

 
Interesting observation.  Would this also apply to a poster commenting on threads involving flight ops who has never flown anything but a cubicle?  Would it also apply to a non-AA employee with a compulsive, needy personality spamming every topic on the AA board?