New NWA Contract Terms

[CSAR GYRENE]

precisly.....

Local, I dont always agree with ya, but I think ya got a point here. Ive worked with many outstanding LEADERS, but only a few good managers

 

[777 fixer]

Local, I dont always agree with ya, but I think ya got a point here. Ive worked with many outstanding LEADERS, but only a few good managers

One has to wonder why the "leasdership" of NWA could not have come up with a better way to deal with the rank and file. My guess, lots of capable bean counters but very few "leaders".

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

One has to wonder why the "leasdership" of NWA could not have come up with a better way to deal with the rank and file. My guess, lots of capable bean counters but very few "leaders".

yup. Unfortunatly true most everywhere. Wheres a Chesty Puller when ya need one?

 

[777 fixer]

yup. Unfortunatly true most everywhere. Wheres a Chesty Puller when ya need one?

Yes, but it seems NWA is having more trouble on that front than others.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Yes, but it seems NWA is having more trouble on that front than others.

Typically, the number of screwed up people in ANY group, military or civilian, union, non union, men, women, take your pick, is 20 percent. That also happens to be the number of outstanding, balls to the wall, damned proud to know ya individuals. The remaining 60 percent walk around in a daze wondering which of the afore mentioned groups to follow.
Of the NWA managers Ive worked with since AUG 20, most were hard working, well intentioned, if not well trained, individuals trying desperately to save an airline. Others were about worthless as a bucket of warm spit, either to damn gutless to take charge and make command decisions, or on some dumbass power trip. I work in the inspection department, and without exception hold all of them in high regard. Over all, I have seen few managers that I couldnt work with somehow. A few bad ones here and there, but over all not bad.

 

[777 fixer]

Typically, the number of screwed up people in ANY group, military or civilian, union, non union, men, women, take your pick, is 20 percent. That also happens to be the number of outstanding, balls to the wall, damned proud to know ya individuals. The remaining 60 percent walk around in a daze wondering which of the afore mentioned groups to follow.
Of the NWA managers Ive worked with since AUG 20, most were hard working, well intentioned, if not well trained, individuals trying desperately to save an airline. Others were about worthless as a bucket of warm spit, either to damn gutless to take charge and make command decisions, or on some dumbass power trip. I work in the inspection department, and without exception hold all of them in high regard. Over all, I have seen few managers that I couldnt work with somehow. A few bad ones here and there, but over all not bad.

One could say that there's are + or -5% to the 20% you mentioned depending on that organization. When I look at the way the ivory tower crowd in Eagan appraoches labor/management realations I would say Eagan is on the + side.

By the way I'm curious as to your thoughts on post #16.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

If I'm reading this right one of the main reasons you took a job with NWA, and the reason you stay, is to prove a point and you take things personally. That has to be one of the worst reasons I can think of to take a job with a company. To take a job becasue someone you don't know calls you names? Sounds to me you might have some underlying insecurity issues.

Don't know if you have figured this out but you are no longer in the Marines. What works in the military doess not necessarily works in the civilian world. Your problems will not be solved by a full frontal assault. Becasue quite frankly no one cares whether or not you made a "point".

How could you have been "unaware" of the labor management issues at NWA? You are either being less than honest or you had your head in the sand. Did you think you were at NWA becasue they were one big happy family? Did you not hear about the conflict between not only the mechanics but also the flight attendants? By the way these problems do not crop up over night. It usually means there have been problems for a long time and things finally have come to a head.

How long do you think NWA will hold up their end of the bargin? Considering thier treatment of thier employees so far I would not hold my breath. When things start getting tough all they have to do is tell you "Soory but things are bad so were going to have to cut your pay 20%". What are you going to do then?

If you prefer 145 operators to 121 then you should go that route. By the way there's no succh thing as a "closed" shop in the sirline business. The definition of a closed shop is one where you have to be a memeber of a union just to get a job.

I'm still trying to figure out your earlier comment about preffering overhaul to line in your choices of employeers. If you were more familiar with the industry you would have known that SWA does some of their own heavy work. You also would have known that NWA has gotten rid of thiers.

Hate to break the news to you but the chances of you getting a job with SWA are preety slim. First if you want one with SWA you had better know somebody there. Now lets say you send your resume in and HR sends it to the appropriate people over at maintenance. The first thing the manager is going to see is that you were a "replacement worker" at NWA. Since the AMT's at SWA are AMFA he knows the what the reaction is going to be once you were to hit the shop floor. In the interest of maintaining harmonious labor/management relations he's probably going to move onto the next resume.

Before you get on you soap box about being a straight shooter, your skills and work ethic let me remind you there are thousnads of other guys who are "straight shooters", have "skills" and have a good work "ethic" who would not casue a #### storm on the shop floor.

Sorry it took so long to answer this one...somewhere along the line I missed it...my mistake.
first off, I would like to thank you for the tone and format of this post. You ask some pointed questions, stated your side well, and remained civil. Itis indeed refreshing to know that some can stil practice the art of debate without undue viciousness. Anyway, lets take a look back here, and see if I cant answer some of your questions.
Idid not TAKE this job for personel reasons. I took it because it paid well, gave me a chance to return to the desert for awhile, and that was where most of my crew from Dothan were going. I STAYED because I really do love a challenge, and to prove It could be done. Yeah, I admit to taking it as a personal challenge. Thats just my nature I guess. You alluded to possible insecurities over being called names. Perhaps you may have a point. But by the same token, would a black man be considered insecure if he got offended over being caled a n#$%@r? Should a woman be called insecure if she is angered over being refered to as a HO, or ####? does a Scottsman have the right to feel insulted after being called English without beng labeled insecure? Granted, these are extreme cases, but no more so, I would say, than being compared to rapists and child molesters.
I am afraid I must totally and regrettably agree with you that this is not the Marines. GOD I do miss it so!
I was unaware of the finer detals of the labor relation problems at NWA because, to be honest, It had no effect on me. Most of my work has been 145 or Govt contract. It wasnt until I worked at Dothan that I even knew NWA was having ANY kind of trouble. At that time, all I knew was that the A and P's were mad about having to take a pay cut that still earned them 3 dollars an hour more than most.
Ya know, I gotta re state that...now that i think about it, I do remember when Amfa got into NW. I think it was about 98 or 99. I was doing heavy checks for Mesaba as a contractor. I remember reading how AMFA was going to be "different" than other unions, and that they were going to push to make A and P's listed as "Skilled labor". They also claimed that AMFA would not be contributing to one Major political party with its dues money. I said to a buddy of mine at the time, "Ya know, these guys sound all right. I can support that" I left for a contract fixing UH-1's for the dea shortly after that, and never gave it another thought till now.
I knew absolutely nothing about the F/A issues.
I dont know how long NWA will hold up thier end of the bargain, but I do know how long I'll hold up mine. As long as they pay me the agreed upon wages I will give them everything I got. If, some time down the road, NWA is unable or unwiling to meet these terms, I wll make the decision either to except the new ones, or seek emloyment elsewhere. No harm, no foul...call me when ya need me.If someone comes along who can do as good a job as me but cheaper, or a better job at the same price, I will congradulate him, help get him started, then be on my way. To me that is only decency.
I knew NWA was getting rid of some of thier heavy work, cause We were doing it in Dothan. My original plan was to show up in Tuscon, take the training, then go back to Alabama as soon as the strike was over. I admit to being completely surprised when we learned that AMFA rejected the offer.
I know little of SWA's operation other than it seems to be working. If, however, they would refuse an otherwise outstanding a and P simply over a labor dispute, I guess I could just say that that is SWA's loss. The way I see it, if some one wants on my crew who knows his Stuff, works his ass off, and is an asset to my team, I wouldnt care if he ever crossed a picket line. My job is to get a quality AC out on time on target. If said individual is going to assist in that goal, his position on organised labor is of no concern to me.
I hope this clarifies some of your questions. If I can provide any more insight into this from another perspective, please feel free to ask. I will answer as honestly and staightforwardly as possible. Thank you.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Very, very, very well said CSAR. I have been trying to get that across to some people for months now.

 

[A737lvr]

Very, very, very well said CSAR. I have been trying to get that across to some people for months now.

And you still sound like a child rapist trying to explain why what he did was ok. You can try, as you will, to justify yourself all you want and it will NEVER make it right. People that commit rape run in your crowd....Hey it worked for me...and if enough people vote for it than we will be leagal! Forget the fact that others have a serious problem with it. What you are thinking is WRONG. You sound like a smart man, but I really think you are making a very poor choice and that is sad. Kids who do drugs think along the same lines and say stupid stuff like "every ones doing it" all the while being ignorant of many very important facts. Hopefully you will use your brains and change how you are addressing this issue. I don't follow the once a scab always a scab thinking. I have seen people open there eyes and realize why we have unions and why being a scab is so very wrong. I really object to your position. I think it is wrong and disgraseful. No class what so ever. You are taking the stab my brother in the back side of the fence. Where is the pride in that? Take pride in your self. Take pride in your proffesion. Take pride in your fellow A&P. And work for what you are worth. Enough. Mr. PTO..I don't even want to converse with you because I find you so foul. <_<

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

And you still sound like a child rapist trying to explain why what he did was ok. You can try, as you will, to justify yourself all you want and it will NEVER make it right. People that commit rape run in your crowd....Hey it worked for me...and if enough people vote for it than we will be leagal! Forget the fact that others have a serious problem with it. What you are thinking is WRONG. You sound like a smart man, but I really think you are making a very poor choice and that is sad. Kids who do drugs think along the same lines and say stupid stuff like "every ones doing it" all the while being ignorant of many very important facts. Hopefully you will use your brains and change how you are addressing this issue. I don't follow the once a scab always a scab thinking. I have seen people open there eyes and realize why we have unions and why being a scab is so very wrong. I really object to your position. I think it is wrong and disgraseful. No class what so ever. You are taking the stab my brother in the back side of the fence. Where is the pride in that? Take pride in your self. Take pride in your proffesion. Take pride in your fellow A&P. And work for what you are worth. Enough. Mr. PTO..I don't even want to converse with you because I find you so foul. <_<

Out of respect for 3rd seater, I shal refrain from commenting. Besides, I think the mentality here speaks for itself.

 

[Jet Tech]

So then why didn't you get a job as a helicopter mechanic.

So you got laid off and decide to be a SCAB and screw over someone else who was just, for all intents and purposes, forced out of their job after being willing to and trying to give 100%?

You're just a walking book of contradictions, aren't you.

How in Gods name can so many people complain about one company showing levels of hatred that defy imagination and then turn right around and yell at someone else for "stealing" the miserable job and work conditions that they abandoned.
I could be wrong but I believe that there is therapy for that level of confusion.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

It is going to take more than therapy, you are looking at an entire reprogramming. It has nothing to do with the job at all. These people were brainwashed as children to think like this.

 

[Hackman]

Out of respect for 3rd seater, I shal refrain from commenting. Besides, I think the mentality here speaks for itself.

Sure does. Some only as far as the next pair of management boots to be cleaned for their master. :blink:

 

[A737lvr]

How in Gods name can so many people complain about one company showing levels of hatred that defy imagination and then turn right around and yell at someone else for "stealing" the miserable job and work conditions that they abandoned.
I could be wrong but I believe that there is therapy for that level of confusion.

How in Gods Name??? They complain because they put some very hard work into that company. They want it to survive. They want it to survive in a way that is FAIR to them for their efforts and devotion. They did their part and they want to be treated fairly. The people that are stealing their jobs are already complaining about lift trucks and refusing to take the company provided equipment and fix the planes. Northwest has nav lights flying inop because scabs are refusing to use the equipment they provide. They could go out do the repair but choose instead to whine about it and wish for the proper tools to do the job. Why are they being asked to do a job with sub par tools? Because it puts money in the pockets of others. Those others could care less.

You are in fact WRONG. You are the one that is confused. An intellenget person would recognize this fact. Are you in fact intellengent? I am now wondering.

Do you really think you guys are the first and only people to be really driven and an honest hard worker? (No, is the correct answer.) So what do you do when they take advantage of that fact (Which they are now doing.) to line there pockets. Your work hard. They make millions. Yes I said milions....You don't make enough to buy shoes for your kids. Then as they buy gold bars and pocket all this gold you are told to fix a nav light. Don't forget to be a company man. Do your job. Stupid is as stupid does. The man at the top refuses to work with out a contract and so do I. He refuses to trust the company and so do I. He requires it all in writing and so do I. He makes a fair wage and it is in his contract. I requrie the same. Why? because I am not stupid. I have learned from the example they set. It's in my contract. All the top mgmt. have a contract. Why, because without it you have nothing. Why work under those conditions? Are you not smart enough to provide a service that others cannot perform and ask for top dollar? Why work for 10 when 100 is the going rate? Are you a fool? You look like one. MX is more than twisting a ratchet. You need to be paid for your brain. Don't calculate your wage on back power. Your worth is more on your smarts and your skill. Sell those to the fullest. You are a fool to work for free..... you should demand top dollar. But you are a fool. Therapy... you will always be poor.

 

[groundcontrol]

You are in fact WRONG. You are the one that is confused. An intellenget person would recognize this fact. Are you in fact intellengent? I am now wondering.
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A737lvr I didn't wan't to quote the entire thing (due to the length) however, you are right on.

the problem here is that you are addressing SCABS and they just don't get it. So don't waste your breath, there is no rationalization among them.

SCABS are SCABS, they don't understand us any more than we understand them.

I only thank God that there are less on them and more of us walking this earth.