New Non-Rev Policies

[dash8ter]

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On 5/2/2003 5:30:04 PM jetstewus wrote:

1.) Active mainline and wholly owned express employees board at the same priority? i.e. An Allegheny employee with 1998 seniority would board a mainline flight to Europe before a mainline employee with 1999 seniority.

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This rule has always been in place (to much disagreement by some mainline workers)! US Airways wholly-owned commuter employees (PI, AL, and PSA) all board with an S3 (used to be S4) priority code, not S5. It''s very frustrating to be bumped when someone has checked you in under the wrong code. Being a PI employee, I always use the kiosk to check in to ensure I am placed on the standby list under the correct priority code.

 

[PITbull]

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On 5/3/2003 311 PM av8orwife wrote:

Thanks for the basic information, but I still have never heard of an S1 or and S4. What does that mean? I think I have missed something.

So what I am hearing is that it goes by date-of-hire but only sort-of? For example my husband is an active employee with 17 years. What code would that give me (as a spouse)?

So a retired employee with 20 years go before me, nothings changed, I assume I would then be listed before a 18 year employee on leave or who has been laid off?

What happened to the Keep it simple rule?? Simple date of hire. Did it get lost in all of this?

When I list on the 1-800- number for a filght it only confirms I have listed for a seat. I get nothing else until I go to the ticket counter for a boarding pass to go though security. So how would I know wheather I'm an S1 (which I assume is good) opposed to an S4 which must be bad.

Thanks for your assistance on this.

KJB

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Av8orwife,

S3,S4,S5, S6, S7 etc status is the boarding prioity for non-revs. If you buy a ticket, for instance even the ED20% that the company initiated last summer during the summer concession negotiations, you go ahead of the "S" folks no mater what. However, the "S" is for the "non-rev" status flyers NOT the "space positive flyer" like the ticketed paying passengers or all the senior executives and CEO who all fly "space positive" and do not fly as "S" status non-reve folks. However, ticketed passengers maybe considered S1, as they have first priority. I am not sure if they are included in the "S" catagories at all. Below, is how it was explained to me by mangement and makes sound reasonable sense.

So to answer your question: If you didn't buy a ticket in some fashion to make you space positive, than you default into the "S" status non-revenue flyer along with your family.
Your seniority still counts in your specific catagory. Because of many complaints by active employees trying to get to work, along with all the disciplines and arguments the union had to fight and defend those folks who could not get on the flight, and because we have so many furloughees throughout the system, the "active employee" are unable to get to work, where a furloughee can go at anytime...is the premise. The "active" employee, they could get terminated for "unable to commute" crew members, mechanics who commute, agents, many folks commute to hold their jobs. I believe the company rsponded correctly to fix a problem that was occuring among active employees who could not board the flights because a more senior furloughed f/a and their family were traveling whereby jeopardizing indirectly the job of the active employee.

In looking at the full scope of this problem if you sit back and take it all in with all the scenerios, you would agree with Jerry Glass on this. You know we are not "best friends", but I agree with him in this instance.

Furloughees I believe still keep their S4 status, that hasn't changed and its better than S5, however, actives have now been given a NEW priority for non-reving and that is at an S3 as stated in the first thread above.

Hope that's more clear.

 

[sdavis29]

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On 5/3/2003 5:16:30 PM PITbull wrote:

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On 5/3/2003 311 PM av8orwife wrote:

Thanks for the basic information, but I still have never heard of an S1 or and S4.  What does that mean?  I think I have missed something. 

So what I am hearing is that it goes by date-of-hire but only sort-of?  For example my husband is an active employee with 17 years.  What code would that give me (as a spouse)?

So a retired employee with 20 years go before me, nothings changed, I assume I would then be listed before a 18 year employee on leave or who has been laid off?

What happened to the Keep it simple rule??  Simple date of hire.  Did it get lost in all of this?

When I list on the 1-800- number for a filght it only confirms I have listed for a seat.  I get nothing else until I go to the ticket counter for a boarding pass to go though security.  So how would I know wheather I''m an S1 (which I assume is good) opposed to an S4 which must be bad.

Thanks for your assistance on this.

KJB

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Av8orwife,

S3,S4,S5, S6, S7 etc status is the  boarding prioity for non-revs. If you buy a ticket, for instance even the ED20% that the company initiated last summer during the summer concession negotiations, you go ahead of the "S" folks no mater what. However, the "S" is for the "non-rev" status flyers NOT the "space positive flyer" like the ticketed paying passengers or all the senior executives and CEO who all fly "space positive" and do not fly as "S" status non-reve folks.  However, ticketed passengers maybe considered S1, as they have first priority. I am not sure if they are included in the "S" catagories at all. Below, is how it was explained to me by mangement and makes sound reasonable sense.

So to answer your question:  If you didn''t buy a ticket in some fashion to make you space positive, than you default into the "S" status non-revenue flyer along with your family.
Your seniority still counts in your specific catagory.  Because of many complaints by active employees trying to get to work, along with all the disciplines and arguments the union had to fight  and defend those folks who could not get on the flight, and  because we have so many furloughees throughout the system, the "active employee" are unable to get to work, where a furloughee can go at anytime...is the premise.  The "active" employee, they could get terminated for "unable to commute" crew members, mechanics who commute, agents, many folks commute to hold their jobs. I believe the company rsponded correctly to fix a problem that was occuring among active employees who could not board the flights because a more senior furloughed f/a and their family were traveling whereby jeopardizing indirectly the job of the active employee.

In looking at the full scope of this problem if you sit back and take it all in with all the scenerios, you would agree with Jerry Glass on this. You know we are not "best friends", but I agree with him in this instance.

Furloughees I believe still keep their S4 status, that hasn''t changed and its better than S5, however, actives have now been given a NEW priority for non-reving and that is at an S3 as stated in the first thread above.

Hope that''s more clear.


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seems to me that 1 of the major points of voting "YES" was cobra and flt benefits for those who would be furloughed.
now it seems you also advocate the right to commute....
you of all people be so pro union should realize that seniority is really the only constant...now after getting the yes votes, those left are finding out the amount of people flying has come back to haunt them.
why penalize employees with senoirity who were not fortunate to make the cut.
simple solution....move where you work..seems to be the norm for most...

 

[PITbull]

SDavis,

Hey, I didn't make up the rules. I didn't even complain about the past rules. From my understanding it got tuff at the gates when commuters tried to board to get to work. In fact, there would be arguments right there at the gates with the agents.

You can say to folks to move where you work, but folks have been commuting since the beginning of airline commercial travel. Heck, management folks commute as well, but they fly space positive.

So, I guess only the "rank and file" should live where they are based according to your thread.
PS. I was given information that ALPA MEC filed a grievance with regard to changing the terms on the "non-revenue policy". Its a violation of their contract language.

 

[sdavis29]

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On 5/4/2003 10:33:26 AM PITbull wrote:


SDavis,

Hey, I didn''t make up the rules. I didn''t even complain about the past rules. From my understanding it got tuff at the gates when commuters tried to board to get to work. In fact, there would be arguments  right there at the gates with the agents.

You can say to folks to move where you work, but folks have been commuting since the beginning of airline commercial travel.  Heck, management folks commute as well, but they fly space positive.

So, I guess only the "rank and file" should live where they are based according to your thread.
PS.  I was given information that ALPA MEC filed a grievance with regard to changing the terms on the "non-revenue policy".  Its a violation of their contract language.


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fair enough....
there are people on furlough who have gotten other jobs..but still have their flt benefits..i just believe they should be afforded same rules for boarding...

 

[tadjr]

It was negotiated into the contracts and offered as part of the furlough (voluntary and involuntary) packages that were offered. It doesnt cost the company much and it is a great benefit for those who were forced out or chose to leave. Many that chose to leave probably wouldnt have done so without the flight benefits being kept for a while. The length of benefits depends on what package you took and whether it was voluntary or involuntary.
It was also a way for the company to "give" something to those being furloughed without spending big bucks on it.

As far as buying tickets, it depends on if there is something time specific you are going on vacation for or if you are a little flexible in the plans. Also depends on where you are traveling and if there might be seats available. I've bought tickets a couple of times recently so I was sure to be able to get there and back on time. (Even got bumped and got a free ticket once!)

 

[mlt]

Trvlr 64,
When the employee ranks had to be cut, management offered voluntary furloughs (initially, increments of 6 months at a time)prior to releasing junior employees. This was a win for the company as they reduced associated costs with more senior employees. A win for the junior employee who remained on the payroll for at least 6 more months. And a win for the employee who voluntarily stayed at home as the agreement stated they would retain their pass privileges. (Keep in mind employees only travel after all revenue passengers have boarded. And, historically it has always been in seniority order!)

Now, after these voluntary furloughed employees have signed agreements that they cannot return to work until their designated leaves have been completed, the terms have been changed. So after saving an individual from the unemployment line, they are being thanked by having that individual board an airplane in front of them!

 

[trvlr64]

Can someone explain why you still have flight benefits if you no longer work for the company? It would be like me getting free medical care even though I no longer work in the medical profession. Oh and I never got free care when I did work in the hospitals to begin with.

I don''t get it. Is this a benefit guaranteed by your labor contracts? And wouldn''t it be better sometimes just to buy a ticket so you know you will get a seat?

Just curious.

 

[A319FA]

The flight benefits are agreed upon by the labor unions and usairways. I do not understand your problem with this concept. Why buy a ticket when we fly for FREE
This does not affect the passengers and should not be a problem.

Is is ok for the retire employees to still have flight passes and medical insurance?

Many airline employees work in this industry (including me) only for the flight benefits. I cannot afford to buy an envoy ticket to Europe, as I have done for the past several years. Each industry offers their own perks.

 

[trvlr64]

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On 5/4/2003 3:39:47 PM A319FA wrote:

The flight benefits are agreed upon by the labor unions and usairways. I do not understand your problem with this concept. Why buy a ticket when we fly for FREE
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I don''t have a problem with it, I just wanted to know more about it. That''s all. I just find it interesting.

 

[drifterreno]

First of all US retired employees without 20 years service STILL pay for their passes. We pay the old fees that employees don''t pay anymore. $75 per year for self and spouse. We didn''t get any free ticket space positive and most of us live in places US doesn''t fly to anyway, but I for one keep my payments going because I have terminally ill parents and want to be able to get there if I have to.
Second, when I was an employee I was headed home to an express city for my uncle''s funeral. I had to fly on an express, had 2 small children with me and because I was listed as a 4 didn''t get on the last plane of the day and with very little money on me--was making $6.50/hr at the time and raising 2 boys by myself--we spent the night in the airport and finally got on the 3rd flight of the day. Did I complain--nope--just thankful that I could go to the funeral.
I don''t mind being a 4. I''m retired and can now fly other ways, but please don''t begrudge me that--I worked 17 years--yep 3 years short of the free pass--but chose to return home where hubby lived. Some things are worth more than money.
Good luck to all of you sticking it out. My heart will always be with the front line employees of US.

 

[night_ice]

As i understand it now, the passes are available as long as the furlough is in effect...can someone be furloughed, let''s say, for 10 yrs and still fly?

 

[night_ice]

Maybe this policy will be grieved and changed!

 

[PITbull]

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On 5/4/2003 4:17:14 PM mlt wrote:

Trvlr 64,
When the employee ranks had to be cut, management offered voluntary furloughs (initially, increments of 6 months at a time)prior to releasing junior employees. This was a win for the company as they reduced associated costs with more senior employees. A win for the junior employee who remained on the payroll for at least 6 more months. And a win for the employee who voluntarily stayed at home as the agreement stated they would retain their pass privileges. (Keep in mind employees only travel after all revenue passengers have boarded. And, historically it has always been in seniority order!)

Now, after these voluntary furloughed employees have signed agreements that they cannot return to work until their designated leaves have been completed, the terms have been changed. So after saving an individual from the unemployment line, they are being thanked by having that individual board an airplane in front of them!

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MLT,

You bring up a valid point. Another broken promise from this management now targeted at the furloughees. Senior management and their families continue to fly space positive.

Since management make the rules, they make sure they get all the perks WITH NO SACRIFICING. Many of these folks have been on the property one year or less.

 

[apofurlough]

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On 5/4/2003 6:27:04 PM night_ice wrote:

As i understand it now, the passes are available as long as the furlough is in effect...can someone be furloughed, let''s say, for 10 yrs and still fly?

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night_ice, I don''t know what union you are with but to answer your question - no

for CWA agents who were in the first round of furloughs, 10/01, we were given flight benefits until Dec 2003 and recall until Dec 2004. So for many of us, we are about 1/2 way through our recall rights and still no sign of anyone being brought back to the airports - only more furloughs who will also have 3 years of recall rights. Most of us have realized that we will never get recalled and moved on but can still enjoy the flight benefits as long as they last. I believe that the length of both pass benefits and recall are what each union negotiated with the company.
I wish they would have given unlimited recall at least, given the state of the industry. What would it cost the company -- all they need to do is keep the list of names on file and you never know they might even bring some back once the industry has turned around as it is sure to do. This has always been a cylindal(?sp) industry more so since deregulation and things will look up again. To me it would be smart of management to keep a list of people who have proven themselves in this industry instead of having to go back to the street and get hit or miss with the quality.