neil Cohen

[finman]

1) Anyone who thinks it's perfectly OK to hire replacement workers so he/she can continue their employement is no one I need to be associated with.

2) I've NEVER said that concessions aren't required or that NWA doesn't need to restructure the way it does business. There is however a right way and a wrong way to go about it. NWA is clueless in this regard.

3) You, Jet tech, Csar, PTO all run and hide or post diatribes to avoid answering my questions? WHY? I don't call you "SCABS" or a "POS" and worse. So why is that? Don't tell me you are afraid to respond? Why exactly is it when you are confronted with someone who can string 2 sentences together and hold you accountable do you hide and throw insults and use straw man arguments? WHY finman? Surely someone with your arrogant attitude of superiority could handle a lowly Sales Trainer like me with mere High School Diploma, a "Tech School Retard" as I was called back in 1972 when I graduated. Surely as a CPA I would prove no match to you! So try going on the other thread and actually answer the questions posed! Respond to the theories posited or go back to being Cohen's butt boy! Grow some testicles finman!

Pardon me for numbering your points, but it helps to structure my response

1) I think NWA was wise to be prepared for a mechanics strike by having replacements ready. It was unfortunate that our new business plan required such a small percent of the original workforce, but in the end, tough decisions needed to be made, and hard lines drawn in the sand for the sake of the company. If my position was one that needed to be eliminated, I'd certainly be upset, but I wouldn't harbor any ill will towards NWA.

2) I guess I'd like to hear some of your suggestions for getting the needed cost savings of $1.4B. Keep in mind that the total management payroll is less than $100M, so the vast majority of the savings have to come from the unions. Is it just the replacement mechanic issue that drives your hatred of NWA, or are there other company strategies that enrage you?

3) I'm not sure what to take from this point. You haven't made any compelling statements of management theory of finance or otherwise that challenged any of the many fine points made by Jet Tech, CSAR, and PTO. Their posts are generally delivered in a professional and thoughful manner. I prefer discourse that stays in that manner, which is in stark contrast to your attempts to be intimidating (maybe tone down on the exclamation points). If you do have some points to make, please do so in a professional manner, and you'd probably get a much better response.

The only theoretical questions I recall you posing related to picketing techniques (wildcat strikes I think you called them?) Naturally, Jet Tech, PTO, CSAR and myself would have really no valuable input in that discussion, as none of us are union members. You might be mistaking fear of debate with genuine disinterest.

I'm not sure how I have an arrogant attitude. I never would have discussed my background, but you challenged my earning capability in an unprovoked attack, which forced me to explain my situation.

So what do train your salepeople to sell? Swastikas? Just kidding, dude.

 

[finman]

finman i guess you take glory in ruinging employees lives and their livelyhoods. you couldnt i guess you do enjoy your freaking free first class basis travel priviledges. I and I am sure most if not all NWA union representd employees back this up that you and your mgmt
team lose the first class travel freebies. it is very sad to see an idiot like conehead running the NWA into a cemetery

Why would you assume I enjoy ruining people's lives? More importantly, why would you think I am in any kind of position to afflict that sort of mayhem? Which of my posts implied anything of the sort?

As far as first class travel priveleges, it's only if available, which is not very often. I've got an infant, so I'm riding coach full-time until the little tike turns 5. There is no measurabe incremental cost to allowing employees to fly first class space available, so I'm not sure why they would take it away.

Running NWA into a cemetery? You guys must be running out of idioms.

 

[finman]

Hey Robbed,

As I read these threads here I can't help but think that Cohen & Steenland make Siegel & Glass look like boy scouts. Maybe "Dave" was "Labor Friendly"? At least relatively speaking?

Hey at least "Dave" never called Flight Attendents "Vending Machines with Arms"

How do you respond finman to your Sr Management calling F/A's "Vending Machines with Arms"? Do you think that is accurate or appropriate? WELL? DO YOU?

If that indeed was said by a member of Sr. Management, then I would say that it was a very stupid and counterproductive thing to say. No I do not think that is accurate or appropriate. I think the FA's are vital to the success of our company, and should be afforded the respect that they deserve.

That doesn't really change anything, does it. The survival of NW is lot bigger than a misplaced comment.

 

[finman]

I sincerely hope that they outsource your job to India so you may gain a fuller appreciation of what life for most of us is about.

You know finman at another time that might provoke a belly laugh. But tonight it makes me want to commit assault & battery upon you personage.

Wow, you sure do get angry about the most improbable things. Just a few of my thoughts, and then we can probably wrap this up.

Your Xerox experience, though impressive, may not be all that relevant to a service industry with a completely different history and completely different set of market dynamics. The very fact that so many of the legacy carriers are in BK should be an indicator for you that maybe there is some structural problems that need to be fixed, with BK being the last resort tool of attaining those changes.

Your SW example is puzzling. How do you think you get down to a lower head per aircraft other than through layoffs, which I presume you are against.

The sky isn't falling Bob. The airline industry was long overdue for an overhaul from the regulated era. It isn't going to have any far-reaching impacts on the economy as a whole.

I realize you harbor this irrational hatred towards me, but I do hope that your job doesn't get sent to India, because I'm afraid you'd probably commit "assault and battery" upon someone. Lighten up Bob. You live in the greatest nation on earth in one of the most robust economies in history. Be grateful and enjoy life. It can't be healthy carrying all of this anger around with you all of the time.

 

[finman]

Do you think it's right to call Flight Attendants "Vending machines with arms"????? I've asked you this several times yet still no response. Your silence speaks volumes.

see post 38

 

[robbedagain]

essentially that is what NWA MGMT is doing is running NWA right into a cemetery because they refuse to take huge paycuts and no the 10 to 15 percent aint going to fly because that is an unfair disadvantage tot eh hard working unionized employees. MGMT should take a 50 or more percent paycut along with benes if they are forcing teh employees to take paycuts. and if they lose talent, not that they have any anyways, then so be it

 

[finman]

You really are a dim wit aren't you?

Is that a direct question or rhetorical, I'm not quite smart enough to figure that out.

Serive Industry??? What a shield to hide behind. CORRECT, the business model is flawed!

That is what the BK reorganization is addressing, is the failed business model. Why not see what the outcome of the reorginazation process delivers before making your judgements?

Never said that layoffs & concession weren't and are required! Like I said in an earlier post there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. NWA is the poster child for the wrong way!

I'm not going to try to defend or criticize the methodology in which poeple get laid off. It sucks no matter how it is done, and I certainly wish NWA could and would do it in a manner that is the least painful for everyone involved.

When ONE worker agrees to take less it devalues EVERY worker. Sometimes it's unavoidable but the facts are the same.

That really doesn't stand up to scrutiny in my mind. The demand and supply of every occupation are mostly independant of one another. If the supply and demand of mechanics is such that employers can pay less, it has no impact on the supply and demand of plumbers, thus plumbers will not have any downward pressure on their wages. I don't know, let me know what your rationale is for thinking that all wages are somehow tied to one another.

I've never hated one person one day of my life finman. If I chose to hate it wouldn't be some third rate corporate functionary who never wrote a Sales order or closed a deal a day in his life. You can't carry my bag in the field, but I can use a calculator and count just like you.

You are correct in that I've never been on the front line in a sales role. I'm not sure what using a calculator and counting have to do with anything. You do realize that the accounting function (of which I do very little of at NWA) is coined as such because of the root word "account", not "count". I.E., how do you account for this lease, or how do you account for this transaction. Common mistake, so no big deal.

In life finman there are 3 kinds of people:

1. Those who make things happen
2. Those who watch what happened
3. Those who wonder what happened

So tell which are you?

I don't know, but I do like a good hot buffalo chicken sandwich with a beer

 

[local 12 proud]

I don't know, but I do like a good hot buffalo chicken sandwich with a beer

....Dont really agree with much you have to say because you sound like some typical Bean Counter, But that statement hits close to home

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Finman,

The flawed business Model is NOT being addressed! NWA is following the road map of US Airways which for the most part has only lowered wages and serives to it's customers while ignoring the fundamental flaws of it's business model.

I offer the article below as "Exhibit A" in the case against the "Cohenista's" at NWA. The balance of the article can be read by clicking here:Article

Airline Invasions: “Barbarians” at the Gates

....

OUTSTANDING POST Piney!

**Moderator Note: Please refrain from quoting a lengthy post. It just makes it easier for everyone to read follow-on posts. Thank you.**

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Thanks for the kind words! I wish the bulk of them were my own but alas I'm not that talented. Be sure to slog through the balance of the article. It's quite lengthy but well worth the read, as is the interview with Mr Kelleher.

In the interview Mr Kelleher talks about "The Southwest Spirit" and how critical it is to their success. What kind of spirit do you think calling Flight Attendents "Vending Machines with Arms" engenders among the rank and file?

Over the years I've flown I've met several NWA folks who were among the surliest, most obnoxious customer service people I ever encountered. Now after reading this board it's pretty clear why. Where is the incentive to be nice when you yourself are treated like manure? I know now it really wasn't totally their fault.

Along the same lines, a while ago there was an article about SWA and a disgruntled passenger. Herb came out in the press and told everyone that the passenger ISN'T always right, and that in this case where the employee had been verbally accosted, that SWA preferred that that customer take their business elsewhere.

Is it any wonder that SWA is considered one of the best places(not just airlines) to work for?

 

[local 12 proud]

Finman

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last"

Winston Churchill

...and here is one for you Neil Cohen!

"When you give a lesson in meanness to a critter or a person, don't be surprised if they learn their lesson"

Will Rogers

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Over the years I've flown I've met several NWA folks who were among the surliest, most obnoxious customer service people I ever encountered. Now after reading this board it's pretty clear why. Where is the incentive to be nice when you yourself are treated like manure? I know now it really wasn't totally their fault.

This post just might have some merit if there were actual NWA employees posting hear. As far as I can tell there are two here that have worked for NWA any length of time, neither are exactly slamming the company. All the anti-NWA gossip here is from fourth and fifth hand, I heard, die-hard unionists.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Don't you have someones job to steal?

There are three things that can cause me to leave NWA 1. I get bored being here. 2. NWA shuts down. 3. An AMT strike at AA.

 

[Kev3188]

This post just might have some merit if there were actual NWA employees posting here.

As an "actual NWA employee," I think Bob's posts of late have merit (and I don't very often agree with him...).

 

[Kev3188]

The NWA workers wanna burn down the house I say "Go for it" My Give A Damn is busted!

Pass the matches....