More Time for Judge Lane

[Buck]

First thing I do work the line. I have suffered negative effects, I lost a week of vacation, holidays, and sick pay just like you. I work the floor. Bob you will not suffer any negative effects from your recommendations to vote no but you definitely will bask in the glory after we get pay raises once the judge does away with overhaul. All those overhaul, line, and facility jobs lost so you could further your personal agenda of higher line pay at the expense of everyone else's job.

Why and how can the judge do away with overhaul when we have union representation?

 

[TWU informer]

First thing I do work the line. I have suffered negative effects, I lost a week of vacation, holidays, and sick pay just like you. I work the floor. Bob you will not suffer any negative effects from your recommendations to vote no but you definitely will bask in the glory after we get pay raises once the judge does away with overhaul. All those overhaul, line, and facility jobs lost so you could further your personal agenda of higher line pay at the expense of everyone else's job.

You are a perfect example of a TWU Fear Mongering Liar that is our biggest problem and must removed. American Airlines is not asking the Judge to approve doing away with overhaul. And Bob Owens is NOT why overhaul is in jeopardy.

Overhaul jobs are in jeopardy because the TWU has allowed hiring of relatives to become more important that obtaining the skill required for the jobs by a continuous agenda of concessions for jobs. In addition, the TWU has sit on their duffs and allowed the work force to become accountable, just like the Union Officers are.

Becoming a Supervisor or a Union Officer has been a undesireable job to seek since I hired on in 1983. Thus the candidate pool for both areas of leadership has been nothing more than the scum on the bottom of the barrel. We have no leadership on either side of the fence, yet they meet on a regular basis to make or not make decisions that our futures ride upon as if they have some clue how to manage an overhaul base.

The TWU has failed every member that wants a professional, high skilled work force to compete in the industry. The TWU has destroyed the overhaul bases by sitting by and advocating unskilled to be upgrades, and hiring of their relatives instead of advancing a professional and highly skilled agenda.

Each members will soon have a chance to be involved in a movement for change and return to what was a once proud workforce and profession.

You on the other hand have already given up and seek to blame someone in New York for the failures that have happened in Tulsa under the TWU's watch. How can any man in New York have that kind of power?

 

[737823]

Thats why I say if the Judge does abrogate and the company imposes we should engage in self help anyway and although we do not deserve it all the other unionized workers in the industry should join us because they will be next.

I called for similar action back in 2002, with USAIR but nobody was listening.

Are you referring to the 2002 concessions train the IAM at USAir started?

Josh

 

[Bob Owens]

First thing I do work the line. I have suffered negative effects, I lost a week of vacation, holidays, and sick pay just like you. I work the floor. Bob you will not suffer any negative effects from your recommendations to vote no but you definitely will bask in the glory after we get pay raises once the judge does away with overhaul. All those overhaul, line, and facility jobs lost so you could further your personal agenda of higher line pay at the expense of everyone else's job.

USAIRWAYs still does OH, so does UAL, Delta and even SWA, None of the other unionized carriers had OSMs or some form of low paid mechanic prior to 9-11. What makes you think AA wants to get out of the OH business? The company has yet to produce proof that they have places to send all that work, Your yes vote would have provided them all the time they need to find and set things up.

We gave AA SRPs (OSMs) back in 1995 with a Early Out to provide the vacancies. After 9-11 competitors had no way to introduce these low paid mechanics because the economy slowed, there was excess capacity and the carriers were shrinking in response to lessened demand. So in order to compete with AA, which had agreed to massive cuts across the board in 2003, they had to outsource. AA still enjoys the benefit of low paid OSMs to this day. They do not need to lay off any workers. They admitted that they still dont know what they would pay to outsource 35% of the work we do. The didnt turn over RFPs because they didnt have them and capacity is tight. Your YES vote would have eliminated System Protection and the ASM cap, which would have allowed AA to grow the Eagle operation at the expense of AA and lay off even more than the 4500 the company threatened us with.

AA could easily get to the balance between in-house and outsoucing that they say they need without resorting to big layoffs, the fact that they knocked it down a few thousand to me os proof that they really werent ready to send much out anyway, with system protection gone they could simply cut more later if they wanted to-or threaten to if we dont perform up to their expectations. They could offer an early out like UAL-$75 k and probably reduce enough to make up for all the jobs they are outsoucing from AFW. Normal attrition would absorb around 500 more per year.

 

[Duke787]

First thing I do work the line. I have suffered negative effects, I lost a week of vacation, holidays, and sick pay just like you. I work the floor. Bob you will not suffer any negative effects from your recommendations to vote no but you definitely will bask in the glory after we get pay raises once the judge does away with overhaul. All those overhaul, line, and facility jobs lost so you could further your personal agenda of higher line pay at the expense of everyone else's job.

AA has been telling us for years that they can't give us a pay raise because OH is such a cost disadvantage for them, but yet while we are in BK, AA is not even threatening to close or sell TULE. Either AA is now seeing the advantage of TUL and see a revenue stream in the future or the executives forgot that they can't afford OH.

 

[Overspeed]

Why and how can the judge do away with overhaul when we have union representation?

It's called abrogation and imposition of the 3/22 term sheet. You know that.

 

[Buck]

It's called abrogation and imposition of the 3/22 term sheet. You know that.

Of course I know that. Is the term sheet that much worse?

Why with the TWU produced OSM classification can the company even begin to ask for less than the legacy carrier average? Yet the TWU sees no value in its membership other than a dues commodity.

Yes the company can abrogate, but someone led the membership to where we are today.

Clue: it wasn't AMFA at United.

 

[Real tired]

Are you referring to the 2002 concessions train the IAM at USAir started?

Josh

You remember well.

According to the IAM, we were so "confused" back then, especially when we voted no to one of our first rounds of givebacks, and then had to revote until we got it "right".

Now my apathetic coworks have learned their lesson and we just vote yes for anything and everything.

 

[Overspeed]

USAIRWAYs still does OH, so does UAL, Delta and even SWA, None of the other unionized carriers had OSMs or some form of low paid mechanic prior to 9-11. What makes you think AA wants to get out of the OH business? The company has yet to produce proof that they have places to send all that work, Your yes vote would have provided them all the time they need to find and set things up.

We gave AA SRPs (OSMs) back in 1995 with a Early Out to provide the vacancies. After 9-11 competitors had no way to introduce these low paid mechanics because the economy slowed, there was excess capacity and the carriers were shrinking in response to lessened demand. So in order to compete with AA, which had agreed to massive cuts across the board in 2003, they had to outsource. AA still enjoys the benefit of low paid OSMs to this day. They do not need to lay off any workers. They admitted that they still dont know what they would pay to outsource 35% of the work we do. The didnt turn over RFPs because they didnt have them and capacity is tight. Your YES vote would have eliminated System Protection and the ASM cap, which would have allowed AA to grow the Eagle operation at the expense of AA and lay off even more than the 4500 the company threatened us with.

AA could easily get to the balance between in-house and outsoucing that they say they need without resorting to big layoffs, the fact that they knocked it down a few thousand to me os proof that they really werent ready to send much out anyway, with system protection gone they could simply cut more later if they wanted to-or threaten to if we dont perform up to their expectations. They could offer an early out like UAL-$75 k and probably reduce enough to make up for all the jobs they are outsoucing from AFW. Normal attrition would absorb around 500 more per year.

Not true again Bob, another lie. US, UA, DL, and WN have dramatically lower overhaul staff than they had before. US, UA, DL, and WN all have over 40% outsourced maintenance which is far more than AA is currently under the TWU scope language you call inferior. UA now has no cap on outsourcing. WN has ~1500 mechanics to do all of line and some airframe overhaul on over 600 aircraft. So using your methodology the 300 guys working overhaul at WN get paid $42 an hour all our 6000 should get the same. You never talk about that WN outsources all their engines and most of their components. Should we tell TUL CRO, PALM, AFW, and TAESL we are giving up your jobs to outsourcing but we will keep DWH open only to some airframe overhaul but they will get $42 an hour? Okay Bob, you get to do the road show in TUL and AFW on that one. Or should we give up all airframe and be like DL and UA and just keep TUL, CRO, PALM, and TAESL? And read the UA/IBT deal, they have a utility job description in their contract. These utility people are unlicensed and can do work on aircraft and GSE. DL has over 1900 unlicensed repairmen working in DL Tech Ops. Look it up on the FAA repair station database.

Outsourcing at was in force before SRPs. The company asked for that position in 1995 in response to the low cost carriers that were moving in to our markets and outsourced all their overhaul. CO was already outsourcing work, they shut down DEN and then LAX in the early 90s. Keep spinning your tall tales. UA offered the early out only last year which is over six years after they exited BK. They offered no early out in BK. Get your facts in the right order.

Removal of ASM caps can be a double edged sword. Yes they can take flights away from mainline however, if they open up new markets and add passengers we can add more mainline flights. That means more jobs. More ETOPS for JFK and LAX by adding flights to underserved markets. Not a bad plan if it works.

I partially agree with you here. The only way they can keep the work in-house if we can jointly solve the operational and organizational problems but you call that boot licking. CO is bringing work back in-house because they do "boot licking" and do the airframe work with fewer people faster than the MROs. The language is in the CO/IBT contract that the workers must prove they can do it cheaper in-house. But you call that boot licking and Bob doesn't do that.

And capacity is not tight. At the MRO show the vendors are excited to put in their bids. They called the new AA and Air Canada work a "game changer" for the North American MRO industry.

 

[amt66]

Bob is the spin master!!!!

 

[Mr Red]

Overspeed,Why do you even post anymore?WE ARE THE LOWEST OF THE LOW IN COMMERCIAL AVIATION !
Thanks to the twu.I don't even bother picking your comments apart anymore

 

[Overspeed]

Of course I know that. Is the term sheet that much worse?

Why with the TWU produced OSM classification can the company even begin to ask for less than the legacy carrier average? Yet the TWU sees no value in its membership other than a dues commodity.

Yes the company can abrogate, but someone led the membership to where we are today.

Clue: it wasn't AMFA at United.

The work that we do with AMTs at many airlines in the overhaul and line world is either outsourced or done by unlicensed people. I believe that is why the OSM classification cap was raised. You could agree to outsource the OSM work under the new cap and raise the pay of those that stay on. Dues is not the blocker here because the TWU Constitution states dues are 2X hourly wage. The TWU would still get theirs in that scenario.

I think it was the IAM in charge at UA prior to and initially in BK. AMFA came in during the BK. Under the IAM the membership rejected concessions and then accepted them in BK after working under 1113e emergency cuts granted by the court. Good thing we were not subject to an 1113e motion. The UA people got hammered.

 

[Buck]

Since the TWU position has and continues to be jobs for dollars, what will the lowest will the membership have to agree on either in wages or more OSM's to accommodate this search for dues? OSM's will be compensated below the MRO's which will cost the company in the long run by their departure to higher paying jobs, the TWU in the number of dues payers and experience which will result in longer turn times for the aircraft. Where does the drain finally stop?

 

[Mr Red]

Change of representation will be a start .

 

[Bob Owens]

It's called abrogation and imposition of the 3/22 term sheet. You know that.

The term sheet, if the contract is abrogated, may or may not be imposed until we reach a deal, not till 2018.