More F/A furloughs

[bagsmasher]

Since the lawsuit was brought up, is there anything happening? Is there any chance it will get heard before we declare BK? If they throw out our union contracts in BK court, this lawsuit will be meaningless. Not that it's not already meaningless, that is.

 

[easy victor1]

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On 2/8/2003 347 PM coldplay wrote:

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On 2/8/2003 11:28:35 AM L1011Ret wrote:

So the fear that bunches of LLC F/As would suddenly massively displace native AA F/As is misguided. Probably there would be some sort of ratio in, years of TWA seniority for years of AA occupational seniority like 4 to 1 or some sort of percentage vis a vis the mechanics would be invoked.
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easy for you to say because this basically ensures you a job while bumping true AA'rs to being furloughed. how fair would that be then? oh yea, i forgot, it's fair because YOU'll have a job while some junior AA person who took the trouble of choosing AA over TWA years ago gets bumped out.

get over it, you guys lost the airline war, you're casualities and there was bound to be some. it may not be fair but LIFE isn't fair and if it was we'd all be millionaires and not have to worry about things.

the truth hurts, no matter how much spin or reasoning or justification you grasp on trying to find an answer to the spectre of a coming furlough and unemployment. get on with your life, get over it. it's not fair, ok, so it's not fair in your eyes because it affects your life. I'm just tired of hearing the same ole line about Unionism and all that crap. We're all looking out for ourselves, damn the others. just as long as I still have my job then everything is peachy and you can be damn sure I'll do everything I can to preserve it. I'm not going to hide behind UNIONISM and FAIRNESS and what was done before with air cal or ozarks or reno or whatever airline merger of the past we can think of. it all boils down to "Better You than Me". call me a greedy ******* but at least I'm honest. and i'll bet you're saying the same thing too deep inside..."why me and not him?", "why after 35 years do I have to be junior to a 5 year FA?", waah waah waah whine whine whine.
Until everyone can admit it and quit with the bull crap of Fair and equitable and true meaning of Unionism, then maybe we'll all get along better.
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[/blockquote]
I just today had a very intresting conversation with a former judge who also was a labor lawyer who is now a partner with a large firm in MIA. This attorney is quite aware of our senioirty issues and truly believes we [TWA f/a's] were treated unfairly.

The most notable comment that was made was that no AFL-CIO union will never support unions that disregard other Union members. It was also pointed out that the AFL-CIO is funding the law suits and their pockets are deep and they can afford the best legal counsel.

Many of your f/a's are so out of touch with what is going on with the TWA f/a's. Some even think thst we have been trained at FSU. What's that about???

Question: Do you think that the APFA has the financial resources to endure this law suit? If we win, will APFA be able to appeal and post a very expensive bond to do so?

4200 of us will wait and see what the courts find. And whatever that decison is we will ALL have to live it.

As a recently furloughed f/a with 18yrs and a mortgage and a family to support...do you know how that feels when a 2yr f/a is working? No you don't and we know you don't care. Your reputation of Ski Nazis is very befitting.

Please don't tell me to be grateful for my HUGE pay raise and United Healthcare insurance that sucks. Oh and I have to continue to prefund my retirement. the only thing I can be grateful for is that I will be saving tons of money by not commuting and sitting reserve.

You Natives are about to find out what it is like to give that $$$$ and work rules back and it won't be pretty. I always say what goes around comes around and that train is headed towards you very fast!

 

[MiAAmi]

Your professionalism here makes me glad that your gone! Good Bye and good luck!

 

[L1011Ret]

There is a thread that follows through native AA F/As posts on this board. It goes something like this, ?why should I give up what I have worked for and built, my position on the AA seniority list, to a group of F/As who were acquired by AA in 2001?? A very good question. The natives believe it with conviction and well they should. However, this thread was about furloughs. Given the position quoted above, should not the same be true for TWA LLC F/As? To argue a position is to argue it as a general principle. Why should TWA LLC F/As give up positions on TWA LLC aircraft that came with the acquisition to native AA F/As? Why should native AA F/As be flying LLC aircraft? Do you mean it is OK to ?exterminate? (language used by LLC F/As) the TWA LLC F/A?s?

 

[MiAAmi]

Agreed!

 

[desertfox]

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On 2/10/2003 6:00:31 PM MiAAmi wrote:

Your professionalism here makes me glad that your gone! Good Bye and good luck!
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I see nothing unprofessional about ev's post. It is one of the more sane, and accurate portrayals of reality that I have seen on the subject. MiAAmi's standard naative reply is a cop-out.
This whole thread concerning seniority issues ought to be tabled as there is nothing anyone other than the court at this point can do about it.

 

[MiAAmi]

OK if you want to keep this thread going in this direction. Because the most junior flight attendants get furloughed first. Just be glad United didn't buy TWA or STL would have already been a memory. (yes given that AFA would have done the same as APFA.)

 

[easy victor1]

AFA give us a complete staple job? Don't be so sure about that. AFA is a AFL-CIO union. If UA had aquired us I am sure that AFA would haven given us some type of seniority if not DOH.

 

[coldplay]

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On 2/10/2003 403 PM easy victor1 wrote:

As a recently furloughed f/a with 18yrs and a mortgage and a family to support...do you know how that feels when a 2yr f/a is working? No you don't and we know you don't care. Your reputation of Ski Nazis is very befitting.

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since you have 18 years and a mortgage to pay and children to feed....a 2 yr AA FA does not have a mortgage to pay and children to feed??? so in your twisted logic it's ok to bump out a 2 yr FA because YOU have a mortgage and a family to support and live happily ever after and this 2 yr FA has no obligations as great as yours??? incredible...and of course that's not being greedy right? FYI, Not every 2 year FA is a just fresh out of college 20-something hardbody. Some 2 yr FAs may have obligations greater than yours. So how do you think a 2 yr FA would feel if a FA with 18 yrs with ANOTHER AIRLINE bumps them off to the streets?

you're right I don't care if you had 18 years because it was 18 years with a different airline, an airline that was competition for your past 18 years, 18 years of trying to drive the competition (AA) away, 18 years of stealing AA business, 18 years of trying to keep this competing company alive.
You're correct that I'd side with the 2 year FA because this 2 year FA gave 2 years worth of keeping this company afloat and that's 2 years more than you've given AA. No matter how you look at it this 2 yr FA will always have 2 years worth more than you. face it, accept it, get on with your life.

does that make me a Sky Nazi? well if it does, fine and dandy...at least I'm still able to continue working and help this company prosper and I'll do it willingly even with the prospect of bring back greedy ungrateful furloughs like you back into the fold.

go apply at Delta's SONG, or even Southwest or JetBlue or Continental, maybe you can convince them to consider your "18 years" and then be top dog over there. just be sure you duck when they start throwing things at you. we don't want you getting hurt and not being able to support your family and pay your mortgage.

 

[MiAAmi]

Are you kidding DOH?. When UA was attempting to buy US the UA flight attendants were working to protect their seniority. And they are both AFA.

 

[L1011Ret]

Some people just love to get off on the pain and suffering of others and will think of the most crazy near psychotic rationalizations for doing so.b

 

[coldplay]

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On 2/11/2003 3:17:50 PM L1011Ret wrote:

Some people just love to get off on the pain and suffering of others and will think of the most crazy near psychotic rationalizations for doing so.b
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get off your high horse...one way or another someone has to pay the price, this time it was you. unfair? to your eyes maybe, but too bad, so sad, buh-bye, time to get another job.

give me one rational logical reason why you deserve more than what you and your bunch disrepectfully label as "nAAtive americans"? more airline experience? BS! I can show you "NAAtives" with more airline experience than you that are furloughed right now all because they changed departments and started at the bottom like everyone else who applied and got their jobs the legitimate way, by interviewing and going through 6 1/2 weeks of AA Training. they're furloughed because you and your bunch got slotted in before them, and in their eyes that is unfair too as they were active dues paying members, way before you and your bunch got into the union.

pain and suffering my ass...everyone is experiencing pain and suffering, it is not a sole exclusive experience of the so-called TWA club.

 

[easy victor1]

I wonder what AA f/a's were thinking when they gave Air Cal and Trans Caribe their seniority.

NW and Republic received DOH, US Air and Piedmont...DOH. Pan Am and Delta a ratio of slotting. Pacific f/a's that were bought by United finally got DOH after a law suit.

Remember, we were not out of business and the bankruptcy was the ONLY way to get rid of Karabu. Remember Carl Ichan?

It will not matter what I or we say to you. The only thing that I will say to you is Here Comes The Judge and the courts. Please don't pee on former TWAer's and tell us it's raining. We have fought bigger battles than APFA.

Oh, if you are so in the know, why don't you look back at OUR Union history. You will be amazed to know how we fought to make the entire industry a better place to work. We have won supreme court battles to protect f/a's at all airlines. I suggest you brush up on what we won from our 1986 strike. Mr. Ichan wanted to abbrogate our contract completly and fire all of us who were strikers. We went to the courts and won that!!! Our 463 case. When TWA continued to replace us for months after we made an unconditional offer to return to work, thus keeping 463 f/a's on the street. We were punished for striking....oh...but we won.

Your personal [not all of you] slap in my face does nothing to me. We are doing EXACTLY what YOU would do if the shoe was on the other foot.

As for my job...I will wait this out until justice prevails. Don't worry about us. Some of us survived for over 3yrs standing up for our work force and others. You sir need to educate yourself about Union history and what Unions should do to others. Apfa is not the example.

See ya in court.

Pride & Dignity

 

[coldplay]

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On 2/11/2003 417 PM easy victor1 wrote:

Oh, if you are so in the know, why don't you look back at OUR Union history. You will be amazed to know how we fought to make the entire industry a better place to work.
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as I stated earlier QUIT HIDING BEHIND UNIONISM!!!!!!

I'll bet that if Carty, John ward and Jane Allen came to YOU, alone, exclusively, and offered a job at your present seniority and with no risk of being furloughed ever in this airline because you are such a "special" person with 18 yrs experience, you'd somehow "forget" your own TWA/Union brothers and sisters and weasel your way into that special job opening. You'd probably sell your own mother too to get a deal like that.

so spare me the "our Union was this, our union did that" rhetoric, because in the end we're all looking out for number 1.

too bad, so sad, buh-bye, get on with your life.

 

[coldplay]

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On 2/11/2003 4:49:51 PM L1011Ret wrote:

As to Coldplay's post, I'm not an airline employee and therefore his/her post tends to confirm my hypothesis.
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yeah and I'm not a lawyer or doctor either And can diagnose that your hypothesis is a bunch of crap. what's wrong with looking out for one's self preservation at the expense of being politically uncorrect to a group that's intent of weaseling their way into a job that i worked so hard for from the beginning of my career and not at some competing airline?