More Competition

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Clue they NEVER ask us what we want!


I would like someone to explain the logic of a 2.5 hour flight leaving at 7:40AM not having even food for purchase in F/C much less that little fruit plate. He11 I'll pay $5.00 for it, just give me that option.

Pack a granola bar just like the millions of cube gophers do every day for that looooong stretch between 8AM and lunchtime.

You name-dropping BBB --- he was profiled this month in Airline Business mag --- and I disagree, this guy is not a mastermind. He failed US and deserted the ship. His TACA 'achievements' are neglible (have you ever dealt with TACA, ain't exactly a well-known airline) thus BBB ain't exactly in the same league as Trippe, Crandall, Lorenzo or Kelleher.

Now these are guys who changed the airine bidness...

 

[insp89]

Load factor is meaningless if the company is still losing money. (or, if you really want to get scared, consider that LUV only runs 65-70 percent loads today. Wonder how that would be at 80 percent).
In the past 5 years, I've had no less than US2 on US (3 years as a US1). During that timeframe, I've been Platinum on AA, BA Gold, and either Premex or Premier on UA. I've done everything from weekly transcons to bi-weekly pond hops, to shuttling up and down the east coast. With that in mind, the US F product is currently bottom of the traditional legacy barrel, and the Y product (particularly on the east side) is actually worse than LUV and B6.

If you don't believe me, perhaps the fact that at least half of the VFFs who post here also feel this way. It's not a coincidence.
Product differentiation. Why in the world would I choose US to anywhere UA flies if I'm in back. Anything versus E+?

Why would anyone wanting true premium service take envoy these days? The rest of the domstic flag carriers are better over the pond, and BA has the US product crushed.

On the strategy--running and hiding in Europe and the islands will only work until the LCCs get there. The islands are already being invaded, and it's only a matter of time until somebody starts running Laker II over the pond.
No, but it has to have a reason for people to pay more. Right now, that reason is sorely lacking.

Load Factor Meaningless ? Hardly..
The problem has been fares have been too low to cover the costs. Now that Southwest is forced into raising fares, Other airlines are approaching break-even, and possibly a profit.

Scared ? I always wondered why Southwest's Load factors are so low..[Could this be a problem for them in the future]?

I'm impressed with all your flying expertise, US1, Gold this, Platimun that.
Still, just your opinion..

Running and hiding in Europe and the islands ? I guess EVERY airline that flies these routes are running and hiding.

Laker II ??, What happened to Laker I ?
It's a big Globalistic world out there, If someone wants to start up another Laker type operation, OK by me.

I'm truly saddened that the Usairways product does not meet your demanding standards. Hopefully, you will give Usairways another try as they continue to merge the 2 companies together.

 

[john john]

Business travelers, by and large (there are always exceptions), will take a carrier with frequencies so they can change to meet their changing schedule

And this my friends is US Airways Business model more frequencies with contract RJ's(ZW) no mainline growth

Hey, now!
Whether you meant US as in US Airways or US as in all US flag carriers, to be fair BA's product always has made the rest of us look like Greyhound in comparison.

On the last cruise my late wife and I took before she died, we flew BA from Houston to London to Athens. We made no special requests. However, my wife had had chemo the week before and was sick as a dog. The BA crew treated us as if we were the only passengers on board.

Even though we had not requested it, the crew radioed ahead for a wheelchair and escort for my wife. We had a 2-hour sit in the transit lounge in London. The escort stayed with us the entire time, got us coffee and sodas, newspapers. We never had to get out of our seats until we went to our flight to Athens.

Now, that's service.

"Those were the days" US Airways NOW does not have the luxury of spare agents to assist sick passengers(stay with) thru there entire trip.I for one would love to give that kind of customer service

 

[700UW]

WN is adding more flights:

Beginning July 2, 2006
Three new daily nonstop roundtrip flights between Philadelphia and
Columbus, Ohio.

Two new daily nonstop roundtrip flights between Philadelphia and
Nashville.

One additional daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Philadelphia and
Providence (for at total of six daily).

One additional daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Philadelphia and
Orlando (for a total of seven daily).

 

[WorldTraveler]

Jimntx,
I’m glad you were well care for during your hour of need. It also goes to show that airlines are still service businesses and those that deliver are those that will win. Transportation of any kind is inherently stressful but those airline employees that recognize that treating passengers well will always lead to job security. Sadly, few Americans know how to deliver really good service because it is so rarely seen in any industry and is nearly a feature of history books in the airline industry.

 

[justaumechanic]

Southwest has requested additional gate space in PHL for more expansion. Their plan is to get to around 150 to 200 flights a day in PHL. Expect some PIT expansion in the future as well.

 

[PhillyAir5]

I really hope SW doesn't get to expand too much more. I'd like to see US tighten things up on SW a little bit over the summer. Don't allow them to control flights to florida and to the northeast.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

Will US upgrade the flights to BNA to Mainline, or is a E-70 sufficient to compete against them?

Will US ever do PHL-AUS, PHL-SAT, PHL-SJC? Austin and San Jose should be up there, alot of tech travel back and forth. I know everytime I fly to and from SJC there are quite a few on the flights that I take and connect.

 

[TheWatcher]

Southwest has requested additional gate space in PHL for more expansion. Their plan is to get to around 150 to 200 flights a day in PHL. Expect some PIT expansion in the future as well.

If this is true, it will be a great departure from thier current business model. Building a massive operation in the delay proned NE. USA for them is a horrible mistake IMO. It will do nothing but give strength to the big carrier there, US Airways. The airline that has dealt with the N.E. enviroment for all of its existence. Priding yourself on the great use of your aircraft is a GREAT thing. That great thing will become NILL for Southwest, when those planes are stuck in PHL due to delays, which in turn cancels flights down the line........

 

[bwipilot]

If this is true, it will be a great departure from thier current business model. Building a massive operation in the delay proned NE. USA for them is a horrible mistake IMO. It will do nothing but give strength to the big carrier there, US Airways. The airline that has dealt with the N.E. enviroment for all of its existence.

A few problems with your logic (besides that it's missing). PHL is a departure from WN's past business model--it fits the current business model. Whether it succeeds will be seen. As for delays/costs, it may end up just like running from a bear: you don't have to be the fastest, you just have to out run the other runners 🙂.

Last, the idea that WN's building a big presence in PHL will strengthen US is silly. US may survive it, but not be strengthened by it. The post sounds like false bravado saying it can't be so.

 

[TheWatcher]

A few problems with your logic (besides that it's missing). PHL is a departure from WN's past business model--it fits the current business model. Whether it succeeds will be seen. As for delays/costs, it may end up just like running from a bear: you don't have to be the fastest, you just have to out run the other runners 🙂.

Last, the idea that WN's building a big presence in PHL will strengthen US is silly. US may survive it, but not be strengthened by it. The post sounds like false bravado saying it can't be so.

current business model? does that include a hub operation in PHL. having service there and major service are 2 different things. this is an area that the hometown airline has had a great deal of success in. if you dont think it will give US an edge, your thought is silly. dont get me wrong, i love Texas based companies and want to see them thrive and be highly successful. Southwest isnt my thing, but it is a Texas based company......one that i think would be biting off more than it can chew if it intends to offer a major operation in PHL or any other N.E. city for that matter on the scale of 150-200 daily flights. thats a huge departure from the "speak softly and carry a big stick" Texas attitude 🙂

 

[jerseyfinn]

. . . Load factor is meaningless if the company is still losing money. . . .the US F product is currently bottom of the traditional legacy barrel . . .

If you don't believe me, perhaps the fact that at least half of the VFFs who post here also feel this way . . .
Why would anyone wanting true premium service take envoy these days? The rest of the domstic flag carriers are better over the pond, and BA has the US product crushed . . .

ClueByFour,

Let me weigh in as a CP who does not concur with your analylsis of US or VFFs.

Airline profitability is influenced by several factors. As noted by others here, nearly all airlines are underpricing their seats in this frenetically competetive market. The entire industry has not exactly been behaving in a "rational" economic manner ( is there even such a thing in the airline business? ). US is really no different than other legacy carriers in this regard.

As to comparing Envoy or most any other airline business product to BA, that's a non-starter and doesn't fit the direction that US is trying to take the airline.

My wife and I do most of my flying across the pond, and US fits our needs from PHL to Europe. Is it the most attractive or sleekest product ? No, it isn't. But the airline does a good job, and I get a sense that Europe will increasingly be a source of revenue as US continues to expand service.

Likewise, you belittle US for not focusing entirely upon the elite FF strata. Well, if you haven't noticed, THAT business model blew up for all of the legacy carriers a few years ago. In other words, the days of catering to a veneer of elites is not where an airline is going to make money in today's market.

The new USA hybrid LCC/full service approach is an intriguing model and it remains a work in progress. I'm willing to see where USA is trying to take this thing. But then again, I'm not fixated upon management. I focus instead upon the employees and the service I receive from the time I hit the airport until I step off the plane. In this regard, the USA legacy employees continue to make US stand for something worth waiting for. I too am hoping for price stability and preservation of perks, but I'm more patient and willing to let management have a go at it.

Barry

 

[LCC_#1]

Hey, now!
Whether you meant US as in US Airways or US as in all US flag carriers, to be fair BA's product always has made the rest of us look like Greyhound in comparison.

On the last cruise my late wife and I took before she died, we flew BA from Houston to London to Athens. We made no special requests. However, my wife had had chemo the week before and was sick as a dog. The BA crew treated us as if we were the only passengers on board.

Even though we had not requested it, the crew radioed ahead for a wheelchair and escort for my wife. We had a 2-hour sit in the transit lounge in London. The escort stayed with us the entire time, got us coffee and sodas, newspapers. We never had to get out of our seats until we went to our flight to Athens.

Now, that's service.

Jim,

Give me a freakin break!! Do you realize how many times I have done that Alone at US Airways? Perhaps you have been with AA too long. I can think of many stories at US Airways like you stated. BA is no better or worse than anyone else. Give me a f##kin break!! :down: :down: :down:

. . . Load factor is meaningless if the company is still losing money. . . .the US F product is currently bottom of the traditional legacy barrel . . .

If you don't believe me, perhaps the fact that at least half of the VFFs who post here also feel this way . . .
Why would anyone wanting true premium service take envoy these days? The rest of the domstic flag carriers are better over the pond, and BA has the US product crushed . . .

ClueByFour,

Let me weigh in as a CP who does not concur with your analylsis of US or VFFs.

Airline profitability is influenced by several factors. As noted by others here, nearly all airlines are underpricing their seats in this frenetically competetive market. The entire industry has not exactly been behaving in a "rational" economic manner ( is there even such a thing in the airline business? ). US is really no different than other legacy carriers in this regard.

As to comparing Envoy or most any other airline business product to BA, that's a non-starter and doesn't fit the direction that US is trying to take the airline.

My wife and I do most of my flying across the pond, and US fits our needs from PHL to Europe. Is it the most attractive or sleekest product ? No, it isn't. But the airline does a good job, and I get a sense that Europe will increasingly be a source of revenue as US continues to expand service.

Likewise, you belittle US for not focusing entirely upon the elite FF strata. Well, if you haven't noticed, THAT business model blew up for all of the legacy carriers a few years ago. In other words, the days of catering to a veneer of elites is not where an airline is going to make money in today's market.

The new USA hybrid LCC/full service approach is an intriguing model and it remains a work in progress. I'm willing to see where USA is trying to take this thing. But then again, I'm not fixated upon management. I focus instead upon the employees and the service I receive from the time I hit the airport until I step off the plane. In this regard, the USA legacy employees continue to make US stand for something worth waiting for. I too am hoping for price stability and preservation of perks, but I'm more patient and willing to let management have a go at it.

Barry

Thank you Barry. You get it!! 🙄

 

[sharktooth]

This is not a small issue as SWA gets much of its cost advantage from turning planes quickly thus increasing A/C utilization. In order to maintain the tight schedules it can ill afford those monsterous ATC delays that can and do occur frequently in the east.

From a cost standpoint they have a far superior business model. However what happens when you degrade into irregular ops on a regular basis due to the east coast? Didn't SWA pull out of SFO due to the delays there? Isn't PHL sort of SFO/east?

Um, Piney Bob.

You people on the East Coast really have no idea what makes SWA special, do you?

SWA handles irregular ops by committing 2 or 3 aircraft to an impacted city pair and slide ops so as to localize the disruption, something the USAir MEC Chairperson from the early '90s (Armen Janzen) suggested to Butch, but was criticized by the Piedmont reps. Turns out, the ALPA MEC chair was right and, as usual, the Piedmont critters were wrong, yet again.

and, no, SWA did not pull out (of SFO) "due to delays there". Where ever did you get such garbage? From the mental cripples always looking for excuses at CCY?

UAL, literally, kicked SWA out of the LAX-SFO market. It took hard work and some smarts that seem lacking in the east coast "brain trust". I leave the reason as an exercise for the east coast know-it-alls. (Hint: for over five years UAL operated a shuttle between LAX and SFO that had, even during the "slow" days of Tuesday and Thursday, from 05:30 to 22:30, give or take, seven departures per hour per direction - fourteen 737s airborne for that city pair(1+00 hours flight time) at any one time - each airplane full (personal experience - twice a week) - except the first and last flights). Makes the Trump Shuttle look like a casual afterthought, a sort of spot on a blue dress. OBTW, the "United Shuttle" that accomplished that task was a _direct_ derivitive of the "Pacific Shuttle" proposed by a group of PSA dudes for the "Ideas that Fly", turned down by both management and those same Piedmont "braintrust" MEC members of the time, surely the descendents of those southerners that let the carpetbaggers loot the south.

SWA pays attention to detail. Something the mgmt at USAir could benefit from but choose not to. The unions could choose to force USAir to pay attention, but, like management, are content to wallow in their shallow aspirations (like accepting "gifts" from management - Xidas/Pollock).

Pathetic that the employees do not demand change.

 

[FWAAA]

(Hint: for over five years UAL operated a shuttle between LAX and SFO that had, even during the "slow" days of Tuesday and Thursday, from 05:30 to 22:30, give or take, seven departures per hour per direction - fourteen 737s airborne for that city pair(1+00 hours flight time) at any one time - each airplane full (personal experience - twice a week) - except the first and last flights). Makes the Trump Shuttle look like a casual afterthought, a sort of spot on a blue dress.

Holy Cow! 7 departures per hour? 17 hours a day?

That would be about 120 departures each way per day! I knew that Sh*ttle by United flew a lot of N/S flights, but that's truly amazing.