ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
More Competition
- Thread starter 700UW
- Start date
Certainly explains DEN.
Mr. fish would certainly disagree, but I place AirTran in a much stronger LCC category than Frontier.
Barbell
Senior
- Nov 16, 2005
- 335
- 0
Perhaps the most insightful sentence in the article:
But this is yet another indication that Southwest is in a defensive mode, and that it's in a new phase of its life - one where just low fares, nice employees, and on-time flights alone are no longer sufficient to keep the passenger herd in the WN corral.
WN's advantages are eroding, and as they expand, the majority of high-yield business customers are less likely to use them as a primary carrier. This does not mean that they won't take some market share from any dominant carrier (i.e. UA in IAD). However, the general flying public, a good portion of which is elites loyal to 1 or 2 airlines, does not see much value in a WN product. I also have it on good authority that anarchy is brewing in the employee ranks.
What does all of this mean? WN is not the overblown threat they appear to be. Do they make many of us uncomfortable? Yes. Do they force us all to be more nimble competitors? Yes. And that's precisely why they make a good competitor, making us a better competitor.
F9 is fairly weak comparitively speaking in the LCC world.
But this is yet another indication that Southwest is in a defensive mode, and that it's in a new phase of its life - one where just low fares, nice employees, and on-time flights alone are no longer sufficient to keep the passenger herd in the WN corral.
WN's advantages are eroding, and as they expand, the majority of high-yield business customers are less likely to use them as a primary carrier. This does not mean that they won't take some market share from any dominant carrier (i.e. UA in IAD). However, the general flying public, a good portion of which is elites loyal to 1 or 2 airlines, does not see much value in a WN product. I also have it on good authority that anarchy is brewing in the employee ranks.
What does all of this mean? WN is not the overblown threat they appear to be. Do they make many of us uncomfortable? Yes. Do they force us all to be more nimble competitors? Yes. And that's precisely why they make a good competitor, making us a better competitor.
Certainly explains DEN
F9 is fairly weak comparitively speaking in the LCC world.
wnbubbleboy
Veteran
Not everywhere, things are not perfect, but they are good.
We all have a crosses to bear to make WN successful. Sorry that's why they call it a JOB.
If there is anarchy, it must be held as secret from maintenance.
I would reconsider your source.
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
- 1
Didn't Boyd say in the article that LCC has more money than Fort Knox and to expect 'news' from LCC soon? I wonder what he's thinking.
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
Barbell,
While I usually find your posts informative and insightful, you are waaay off base with this. The general flying public (notably those who are going to take a few trips a year in coach) have very, very little reason to choose, say, LCC over LUV domestically. I'm not going to delve into the nuts and bolts of this (it's been hashed) but at the end of the day, if you are not upgraded on mainline the onboard experience from LCC is not significantly differentiated from LUV to warrant any kind of extra spend and LCC's costs don't work if one has to match LUV.
That said, even high dollar elites now often have reasons to choose LUV--if US wants $500 for an RJ flight between point A and B and LUV wants $250, who do you think I buy with?
On the business travler side, until LCC rationalizes all fares in all markets, the last minute guy is still far less likely to feel like somebody just mugged him buying the ticket on LUV.
I didn't realize the terminal wasn't finished yet... wow, 60 more flights. Maybe CLT, MSP, etc...
TheWatcher
Senior
- Aug 26, 2002
- 342
- 0
FCYTravis
Senior
Boyd was referring to Southwest when he said that. They're overflowing with cash, at least right now.
Barbell
Senior
- Nov 16, 2005
- 335
- 0
While I don't dispute that some will choose the $250 737 flight over the $500 RJ, there are just as many that will avoid the WN product for any number of reasons.
We have found time and again that travelers, especially business travelers who have the rank and pull to pick their own carrier of choice for the upgrade, or the miles, or whatever, will take a carrier based on price and schedule. PHL-SFO is an example used a couple of times on this board. If your business calls you to SFO, I don't know many business travelers, elite or not, that will take a long haul flight and arrive in OAK to save the $200. Or say you live in Northern Virgina, are you going to take WN's new service IAD-PVD for your meeting in BOS, or are you going to take the IAD-BOS nonstop, regardless of carrier? Business travelers, by and large (there are always exceptions), will take a carrier with frequencies so they can change to meet their changing schedule, and interline them when a Rule 240 can be invoked. These situations are simply not available from WN.
And it's the general public taking a flight or two a year that are of little interest to LCC's business model, because our goal is to create a product that creates a value brand image, ala Target, where people are willing to pay a mid-range price for a value product. We're not there yet. It's up to you to decide if you want to invest the patience to wait for it.
I hope that clears up any confusion.
Perhaps "anarchy" was too strong a word. There is definite malcontent. And just because it's not found in maintenance, doesn't mean it doesn't exist somwhere...
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
Not to be overly flippant, but what exactly do you guys consider LAS? Sure, it's a treasure trove of O&D, but that's not exactly business central (unless you count convention traffic).
Creating it needs to start with cleaning the back of the plane and fixing the product up front. I'll be blunt--the other problem you guys are dealing with is United. They also are shooting for a "value" product, but are (and did, even in Chapter 11) deliver actual value. I would (and have) gone out of my way to catch UA flights based on the criteria you list, because I'm assured of a decent ride in the back and if I choose to support an upgrade a really nice product up front.
Put it like this: if Silvers and Golds start having to "support" upgrades again, you guys will lose that entire segment, unless the front cabin is drastically improved in a real hurry. At LAS and PHX, from a convienence standpoint, HP's primary competition was LUV and the business flyer from PHX or LAS had to connect or take the HP F product. That same logic will not fly where a connection is necessary--the other legacy airlines have the same pricing and a superior product. On the waiting--I think the question is why should people stick around when the product is already priced for "value" but is currently, to put it mildly, dusty?
That, and if you really want to make the VFF's see value, stop nickel and diming them to death to do things like book a ticket on the phone, or an award on the phone, particularlly when the website pukes on anything more complex than PHL-LAS-PHL in coach. The carrot works much better than the stick.
Travels2mch
Veteran
I'm on the 4PM FLL to CLT tomorrow, better tell them to load extra gin. I'm gonna drink you SOB's out of business if my liver holds up
Too Funny!!!!
wnbubbleboy
Veteran
The terminal is finished they are working on a fuel system on the ramp.
They are knocking gates out of service as they install the system.
Everything should be complete by September which should bring us if my memory is right to 26 gates.
wnbubbleboy
Veteran
I started in 94 on the ramp making $6.50 an hour.
Back then, I would load the first flight of the day myself and would wait for the operations agent to pull back the jetway and run down to the pushback so we could get the flight off the gate. I could go on with the stories but I can tell you it was absolute hell.
I stayed though because of the opportunity. I made the best of it I am were I want to be. If anyone is unhappy here it's their own fault.
The skies the limit here you can be what ever you want to be here. I am a stock clerk here at WN one of the clerks I worked with is a Manager and an other is now our director.
Finally, there is always the door nobody is chained to their job here.
