SoldWholeSale
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Its nice to hear from the back row.....I assume you didn't have the B@ll$ when the chance was yours to stand firm 
Midrepublic Airways
- Thread starter TBONEJ4J
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BottomFeeder
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pitguy said:++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I find it very amusing how some pilots worry about solidarity at this point of the game. I mean if you were going to stand up don't you think you should have done it a few years ago? And another thing....is these scabs now scabbing the same scabs that scabbed the I.A.M. represented Mechanics back in 1992?
-- I just love life when things come full circle.
[post="281674"][/post]
Pitguy,
Nice, it is great to see you have the mindset to take something good and twist it. The same solidarity that blessed you in "92".
I guess the saying "you can't fix stupid" runs as deep as the roots in your family tree.
Light Years
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- Aug 27, 2002
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Apparently there were 3 pilots that said yes, but have now rescinded and it's down to ONE. Out of 340-something. Betcha that'll change and it will be 100% No. All or None!
MAD PROPS to the MAA pilots... the F/As supposedly have a fight prepared as well, with AFA involved all the way up to Pat Friend. There's A LOT going on.
It's about time someone stood up as a unified group. This could change alot of things in the bigger picture. I've got goosebumps.
MAD PROPS to the MAA pilots... the F/As supposedly have a fight prepared as well, with AFA involved all the way up to Pat Friend. There's A LOT going on.
It's about time someone stood up as a unified group. This could change alot of things in the bigger picture. I've got goosebumps.
Light Years
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- Aug 27, 2002
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Airline Fate May Hinge On Hearing- Pittsburgh Live
Some highlights...
Debtors will also have their say at today's hearing in the bankruptcy court in Alexandria, Va. One that objected is Embraer, the Brazilian aircraft maker that sold the regional jets to US Airways and helped finance them.
Embraer objects to US Airways selling its interest in the regional jets to Republic because it's not clear that Embraer's rights as creditor would be protected, said court documents.
.....
The court today also is expected to decide the nature of the aircraft transfer, which would affect MidAtlantic pilot jobs.
If Republic's assumption of MidAtlantic regional jets and landing slots is deemed a "change of control," Republic must hire all 330 MidAtlantic pilots. If the agreement is deemed an "asset sale," then Republic is obliged to hire only half the pilots.
.........
Republic also could acquire 113 commuter landing slots at Reagan Washington National Airport and 24 slots at New York's LaGuardia Airport -- both lucrative and coveted assets. It would lease the slots back to US Airways, which could even reacquire them after two years, say deal terms.
If the Republic financing deal goes through, it will own at least 19 percent of US Airways stock that would be distributed upon exiting bankruptcy. Terms also would give Republic three seats on a reconstituted US Airways board of directors.
Some highlights...
Debtors will also have their say at today's hearing in the bankruptcy court in Alexandria, Va. One that objected is Embraer, the Brazilian aircraft maker that sold the regional jets to US Airways and helped finance them.
Embraer objects to US Airways selling its interest in the regional jets to Republic because it's not clear that Embraer's rights as creditor would be protected, said court documents.
.....
The court today also is expected to decide the nature of the aircraft transfer, which would affect MidAtlantic pilot jobs.
If Republic's assumption of MidAtlantic regional jets and landing slots is deemed a "change of control," Republic must hire all 330 MidAtlantic pilots. If the agreement is deemed an "asset sale," then Republic is obliged to hire only half the pilots.
.........
Republic also could acquire 113 commuter landing slots at Reagan Washington National Airport and 24 slots at New York's LaGuardia Airport -- both lucrative and coveted assets. It would lease the slots back to US Airways, which could even reacquire them after two years, say deal terms.
If the Republic financing deal goes through, it will own at least 19 percent of US Airways stock that would be distributed upon exiting bankruptcy. Terms also would give Republic three seats on a reconstituted US Airways board of directors.
pitguy
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- Aug 21, 2002
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BottomFeeder said:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Let me see if I understand this correctly. These pilots now at Mid Atlantic were once in a group that scabbed the I.A.M. mechanics back in 1992. This same pilot group has been sold out by their very own kind. Then being so pathetic they help set new lows for the industry with MAA….and now they want to make a stand. Hey! Why not? They have nothing to lose now since they would never make a stand before when it mattered. I do not feel sorry for the majority of them. I do feel for the ones that may have taken the job for reasons of health care for an ill love one or similar reason. I truly have to wonder what you figured would happen here.
I will not feel sorry for any scab. Enjoy your reward. Just keep hanging on. The best is yet to come.
“If you place a frog in a pot of boiling water it will jump out. However if you place the same frog in a pot of cool water and then bring the water to a boil the frog will stay and DIE.†Enjoy the heat baby!
TIC...TOC...TIC...TOC...
B
BottomFeeder
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Light Years said:
SoldWholeSale
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PITGUY,
Get a clue, in 1992 a great many MDA pilots (the majority) were not working for U.... Remember, U hired 1,000+ pilots between 1998-2000, and many CEL (combined express list) pilots are at MDA as well.
The best way to eat crow is while it's still warm.....
SH
Get a clue, in 1992 a great many MDA pilots (the majority) were not working for U.... Remember, U hired 1,000+ pilots between 1998-2000, and many CEL (combined express list) pilots are at MDA as well.
The best way to eat crow is while it's still warm.....
SH
B
BottomFeeder
Guest
pitguy said:+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Let me see if I understand this correctly. These pilots now at Mid Atlantic were once in a group that scabbed the I.A.M. mechanics back in 1992. This same pilot group has been sold out by their very own kind. Then being so pathetic they help set new lows for the industry with MAA….and now they want to make a stand. Hey! Why not? They have nothing to lose now since they would never make a stand before when it mattered. I do not feel sorry for the majority of them. I do feel for the ones that may have taken the job for reasons of health care for an ill love one or similar reason. I truly have to wonder what you figured would happen here.
I will not feel sorry for any scab. Enjoy your reward. Just keep hanging on. The best is yet to come.
“If you place a frog in a pot of boiling water it will jump out. However if you place the same frog in a pot of cool water and then bring the water to a boil the frog will stay and DIE.†Enjoy the heat baby!
[post="281765"][/post]
PitGuy,
Have you ever heard of logic?
Lets say you right that there were pilots that did your work. First let look at the facts.
More than 1/2 of the fleet was grounded during the 92 walkout. More that 1/2 of the pilots stayed home.
The less than 1/2 of the fleet that was flown. The pilots that flew those airplanes were doing their jobs as described by their contract.
A scab is one that does another persons job that is on strike.
Even if 1/2 of the pilots that flew did your work. It is still only less than a 1/4 of the total pilots.
Some of the MDA pilots were not even working here in "92"
You have painted the whole group as scabs with your broad brush. You have not offered proof that any pilots did actually do your work.
Explain how the 1/2 that stayed home and the ones not even working here in 92 are scabs. Then show us the proof that the pilots who did work did your job.
The very best you can come up with is 1/4 of them did your work. If you can prove all of them actually did your work.
dashdriver
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- Mar 22, 2003
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Way to go, MDA pilots. I am happy to see a group finally stand up for something. Check out the regional section of flightinfo.com, CHQ guys are already circling over the carcass and salivating over the 170s. It seems as if they think they are offering the MDA guys jobs, and they think the MDA guys are acting too good to go over there. They just don't get it, pretty sad really.
Good luck, guys, and stand firm, we support you.
Good luck, guys, and stand firm, we support you.
SoldWholeSale
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dashdriver said:
Hey, I just signed up over there.... One thing to remind the CHQ folks. I read the thread where they were ask to suppord MDA and the comment was that AAA/MDA had never done anything for them but hold them back. This is incorrect! When Republic was started, it was started because of the CHQ "NO" vote for J4J. CHQ mgmnt decided to say the heck with IBT and their pilots and start a new airline and just furlough 50% of the CHQ pilots as they moved aircraft over. This would have happened had the AAA ALPA pilots not stepped in and stood with the IBT against such an action. As a result, Republic/CHQ are covered by the same contract and the whipsaw was halted in its tracks ONLY WITH THE HELP OF THE USAIRWAYS PILOTS. That may be the only group AAA ALPA has ever helped including their own.
SH
MidwayMetrolink
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- Jan 1, 2004
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Just so it is known, let it be said that not every CHQ pilot likes what is happening to the MDA guys. In fact, this whole deal was not even brought out for a vote! If it were not for this message board and for a single post on the hub, most wouldn't even be aware of what was offered to MDA pilots. Do you think the majority of the pilots at CHQ really want those EMB 170's? Think again! I cannot speak for everyone, but I would venture to say that most would want them to stay at mainline. Just like the original Regional Jets that DALPA turned down, thus setting a standard for the industry to contract them out.
Many of you like to blame everything on employees from places like Mesa, CHQ, and Transtates, but the fact is not a single employee from those companies had a say in any of this. Many were there when those companies flew Metroliners to Bradford and Hagerstown (something else mainline pilots gave up at the dawn of the Allegheny Commuter system) and were suddenly smothered with an influx of RJ's. We stoop to low standards you say? At least we are trying to better the regional industry. For those of you who flew for a commuter prior to USAir, United, or American, what did you do to help? These jets have only been here a few years so don't expect the moon just yet...but we're working on it. With every contract since the introduction of the RJ there has been an improvement. That's more than can be said for the constant lowering of the mainline contracts.......granted I can't say I would not have done the same thing if in your shoes. Also, there was a comment a while back about how CHQ pilots top out at $77.00 per hour. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that exactly what MDA tops out at as well? And remember, that $77.00 per hour is for the EMB 170. There are no A380's on CHQ property yet, so don't expect there to be a payscale for it.
As for the Flightinfo board.....why anyone would even waste there time there is beyond me. It's like they somehow magnetized every immature individual in the industry and placed them on that site.
I have a question that perhaps someone here can help with. When PEOPLExpress, PrideAir, and Air Florida were in business......did their pilots get picked on for not making as much as those at United and Eastern or is this a relatively new development? Better yet, how many of you worked at those little airlines?
I truly hope everything works out well for every employee at MDA. Sorry about the rant.
Many of you like to blame everything on employees from places like Mesa, CHQ, and Transtates, but the fact is not a single employee from those companies had a say in any of this. Many were there when those companies flew Metroliners to Bradford and Hagerstown (something else mainline pilots gave up at the dawn of the Allegheny Commuter system) and were suddenly smothered with an influx of RJ's. We stoop to low standards you say? At least we are trying to better the regional industry. For those of you who flew for a commuter prior to USAir, United, or American, what did you do to help? These jets have only been here a few years so don't expect the moon just yet...but we're working on it. With every contract since the introduction of the RJ there has been an improvement. That's more than can be said for the constant lowering of the mainline contracts.......granted I can't say I would not have done the same thing if in your shoes. Also, there was a comment a while back about how CHQ pilots top out at $77.00 per hour. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that exactly what MDA tops out at as well? And remember, that $77.00 per hour is for the EMB 170. There are no A380's on CHQ property yet, so don't expect there to be a payscale for it.
As for the Flightinfo board.....why anyone would even waste there time there is beyond me. It's like they somehow magnetized every immature individual in the industry and placed them on that site.
I have a question that perhaps someone here can help with. When PEOPLExpress, PrideAir, and Air Florida were in business......did their pilots get picked on for not making as much as those at United and Eastern or is this a relatively new development? Better yet, how many of you worked at those little airlines?
I truly hope everything works out well for every employee at MDA. Sorry about the rant.
SoldWholeSale
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Good post! You are among the reasonable voices and if you look back on my posting history, I have said that CHQ is tha class of the contract carrier gaggle. I look for CHQ flights to get home on because they always go and you folks do a good job.
However, with that said the offer just isn't good. The MDA folks aren't making a statement to CHQ pilots or really even CHQ mgmnt. The MDA pilots are telling U mgmnt, and ALPA that the bill of goods they sold inferring that the event is a sale of assets is incorrect. LOA #91 agreed upon by both ALPA and the courts does spell out very clearly what would trigger a "change of control" vs. a "sale of assets", and this does fall under the "change of control".
I would love to have this work out, the CHQ pilots get the MDA contract or better, and those airplanes to keep flying under the U flag.
I am a former express pilot, former U express to be exact and I did fly RJ's.... I understand your point and want to make it clear that the MDA pilots are running on emotion and solidarity and any mention of CHQ in a poor light reflects the offer given and mgmnt's efforts to railroad the process and not feelings toward the front line pilots.
SH
However, with that said the offer just isn't good. The MDA folks aren't making a statement to CHQ pilots or really even CHQ mgmnt. The MDA pilots are telling U mgmnt, and ALPA that the bill of goods they sold inferring that the event is a sale of assets is incorrect. LOA #91 agreed upon by both ALPA and the courts does spell out very clearly what would trigger a "change of control" vs. a "sale of assets", and this does fall under the "change of control".
I would love to have this work out, the CHQ pilots get the MDA contract or better, and those airplanes to keep flying under the U flag.
I am a former express pilot, former U express to be exact and I did fly RJ's.... I understand your point and want to make it clear that the MDA pilots are running on emotion and solidarity and any mention of CHQ in a poor light reflects the offer given and mgmnt's efforts to railroad the process and not feelings toward the front line pilots.
SH
MidwayMetrolink
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- Jan 1, 2004
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SoldWholeSale said:
Thank You for the response and to be perfectly honest, I cannot blame anyone one microscopic little bit for not taking the offer. I just wanted to be clear that this is not something that all of CHQ's pilots got together on and said "let's offer this to MDA!"
I bet with this solidarity you'll see changes. Best wishes!
Pitguy is right, we MDA'rs should stop all this right now, and instead just sit back and whine endlessly about the past present and future like he does. THAT should get plenty of stuff accomplished.
Man I hate crybabies with a persecution complex.
Anyways, It will be interesting to see what happens from this point onwards. Ahhh, MDA has never been boring, has it...?
Man I hate crybabies with a persecution complex.
Anyways, It will be interesting to see what happens from this point onwards. Ahhh, MDA has never been boring, has it...?
pitguy
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- Aug 21, 2002
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BottomFeeder,
I am wondering of some of these scab pilots are starting to regret what they did in ’92 as they are taking a bigger dose of their medicine. I do try not to paint the pilot group with a broad brush, but I struggle to find a pilot without the “it’s all about me†mind set. I do travel frequently and most of the RJ ‘younger’ pilots seam to be decent people who just happen to be caught up in a bad career path at the time. For years if you asked hotel van drivers, desk clerks or people that come in contact with the old school major airline pilot type most will tell you how arrogant they tend to be. While this does not imply they are all that way, but it does imply there is a trend. Any how I personally do enjoy the misery of the crusty, self-centered, old school U pilot taking a hit. I feel they deserve it. As you may know I do not currently work for U. I do quite well in my field and I am compensated very generously for what I do. However just because of my level of income or stature that does not give me any right to be disrespectful to others or to look down on them. I feel most pilots look down on other people such as these service workers and that is one reason why there is little empathy for them. Maybe some pilots should try to be courteous to the rest of the world. The rest of the world is not so bad.
-It has always been well known that most successful strikes are over job preservation. Money and benefits normally will not be a motivating factor for a successful strike. Here goes to prove that point how this pilot group want to draw a line in the sand over job preservation. I just have to wonder is the job they are fighting for worth it. Too bad no one had the guts to fight before and let the job get so beat down to begin with. You get no sympathy from me.
Nice job ALPA!!! TIC…TOC…TIC…TOC…
h34r:
I am wondering of some of these scab pilots are starting to regret what they did in ’92 as they are taking a bigger dose of their medicine. I do try not to paint the pilot group with a broad brush, but I struggle to find a pilot without the “it’s all about me†mind set. I do travel frequently and most of the RJ ‘younger’ pilots seam to be decent people who just happen to be caught up in a bad career path at the time. For years if you asked hotel van drivers, desk clerks or people that come in contact with the old school major airline pilot type most will tell you how arrogant they tend to be. While this does not imply they are all that way, but it does imply there is a trend. Any how I personally do enjoy the misery of the crusty, self-centered, old school U pilot taking a hit. I feel they deserve it. As you may know I do not currently work for U. I do quite well in my field and I am compensated very generously for what I do. However just because of my level of income or stature that does not give me any right to be disrespectful to others or to look down on them. I feel most pilots look down on other people such as these service workers and that is one reason why there is little empathy for them. Maybe some pilots should try to be courteous to the rest of the world. The rest of the world is not so bad.
-It has always been well known that most successful strikes are over job preservation. Money and benefits normally will not be a motivating factor for a successful strike. Here goes to prove that point how this pilot group want to draw a line in the sand over job preservation. I just have to wonder is the job they are fighting for worth it. Too bad no one had the guts to fight before and let the job get so beat down to begin with. You get no sympathy from me.
Nice job ALPA!!! TIC…TOC…TIC…TOC…
h34r:
