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Merger Relief for American Airlines: April 24, 2012
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,945
- 9,372
Oh, so is WorldTraveler merging with Spectator?
I noticed my score dropped by a few points within 10 minutes of your post. Rest assured, I'll try to return the favor.
Yep. And some people defend their reputation to the tune of 1727 mouse clicks voting up their own posts, and then lie about how they really don't care about their reputation. But that's already the topic of another thread. No sense continuing it here.
Yes, please tell us about the what the truth is. The truth will set you free, right?
If you're feeling shamed, ironic that it's not because someone has shamed you -- it's because the truth came out about your own actions and deception.
That's been at your own hands, without anyone's help.
Ah, yes. You speak the truth from behind an alias. And you are quick to help people recognize their place.
I'm often found to be anything but accurate, I have no integrity, and I lack credibility, even though I'm using my real name.
Got it.
I'm happy to be proven wrong, but frankly, you're the last person who should be calling into question someone else's integrity or credibility right now.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #138
I did the very same thing that you and other people have done - vote on their own posts, even though have made it a campaign to try to shame me into silence by posting my own personal picture online and attempting to post my personal credentials. Unlike using the features of the voting system as they existed on this on this forum, you have broken the rules of this forum and gone outside of it - all motivated by revenge and the drive to shame someone else because they shamed you. The operators of this board decided to fix a glaring gap that has made a mockery of the whole post voting system by thousands of people, including yourself.
What they can't change is the content that people choose to post on this forum.
If your score dropped by more than one point in the past 24 hrs, then you have someone else to thank. How about you start yet another campaign to root out the rest of your dissenters?
Yet the truth remains that in the marketplace of ideas in which you compete by participating in an open, public exchange your ideas have been found to be lacking in accuracy, predominantly because what you post here in content is motivated by the very same revenge that you have for me. It isn't hard for me to win in the contest for accurate content when you are still motivated by your need to keep anyone who challenges you quiet - and this your own domain.
If you want to run a popularity contest, you win.
What won't change is that this is a public forum on which you will have to compete with others for the accuracy of the statements which you make. You can continue as you are doing which is quit posting anything of substance so that your professional and personal reputation is not tarnished when you are proven wrong OR you can choose to be accurate which might well mean that you would have to agree with the points other people make, no matter how much it hurts you to do it.
What we can do is continue to verify the accuracy of what everyone on here writes... that concept is called accountability. And that is what I will continue to do, esp. for those who choose to take positions on issues which involve a simple right or wrong answer.
Either WN will add 260 flights per day or will it continue to shrink its operation.
Either DL will report the best financial results in the network carrier segment or they will not.
EIther UA will see its costs rise to a level where it is uncompetitive with its network peers or face labor unrest that will affect its operation or not.
Either AA will continue with the 1113 process or it will be acquired by another carrier - very black and white issues.
Black and white. Right or wrong. Accountable positions.
You can choose to demonstrate that you understand the airline industry by making ACCURATE black and white statements which is the basis of the business you say you do or you can be reduced to emotion-based chatter which can be found by the pageload on the internet.
There are hundreds of others on this forum who have figured out how to successfully compete in the marketplace of ideas.
How about you figure out how to do it for yourself?
What they can't change is the content that people choose to post on this forum.
If your score dropped by more than one point in the past 24 hrs, then you have someone else to thank. How about you start yet another campaign to root out the rest of your dissenters?
Yet the truth remains that in the marketplace of ideas in which you compete by participating in an open, public exchange your ideas have been found to be lacking in accuracy, predominantly because what you post here in content is motivated by the very same revenge that you have for me. It isn't hard for me to win in the contest for accurate content when you are still motivated by your need to keep anyone who challenges you quiet - and this your own domain.
If you want to run a popularity contest, you win.
What won't change is that this is a public forum on which you will have to compete with others for the accuracy of the statements which you make. You can continue as you are doing which is quit posting anything of substance so that your professional and personal reputation is not tarnished when you are proven wrong OR you can choose to be accurate which might well mean that you would have to agree with the points other people make, no matter how much it hurts you to do it.
What we can do is continue to verify the accuracy of what everyone on here writes... that concept is called accountability. And that is what I will continue to do, esp. for those who choose to take positions on issues which involve a simple right or wrong answer.
Either WN will add 260 flights per day or will it continue to shrink its operation.
Either DL will report the best financial results in the network carrier segment or they will not.
EIther UA will see its costs rise to a level where it is uncompetitive with its network peers or face labor unrest that will affect its operation or not.
Either AA will continue with the 1113 process or it will be acquired by another carrier - very black and white issues.
Black and white. Right or wrong. Accountable positions.
You can choose to demonstrate that you understand the airline industry by making ACCURATE black and white statements which is the basis of the business you say you do or you can be reduced to emotion-based chatter which can be found by the pageload on the internet.
There are hundreds of others on this forum who have figured out how to successfully compete in the marketplace of ideas.
How about you figure out how to do it for yourself?
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,945
- 9,372
Oh, I did figure out how to be held accountable by others. I post under my own name.
I could understand if you worked for an airline and didn't want retribution, but you claim you're no longer even in the industry, so what do you have to lose?
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
Ding Ding
End of Round Two, please return to your corners.
And all over some stupid rating system that everyone knows is flawed and can be manipulated.
Great minds sometimes succumb to stupid beliefs.
End of Round Two, please return to your corners.
And all over some stupid rating system that everyone knows is flawed and can be manipulated.
Great minds sometimes succumb to stupid beliefs.
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
Basically you are rated by other readers on their opinions of what you post.
But wait, the Grand Prize is all expense out of your own pocket, through payroll deduction trip to the TWU International.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #145
amen...and in the process some people can't seem to comprehend that what you actually post, not your ability to sway the masses, is what matters.
Buck,
conventional wisdom regarding AA's future continues to suggest a merger yet no one has yet to explain how the weakest carrier in the industry is going to swallow up one that is much larger given that creditors really are interested in what is best for their own finances - and the chances that US can compete with a restructured AA, let alone with other airlines should it get to that process.
Given that everyone still believes that labor will control the process, I'm not convinced.
I've got one person who is willing to put his reputation - and money on the line. That's not a whole lot of people for a transaction of this size.
signals
Veteran
Just between you and me..ha-ha..WT was once at -487. Currently he is at -48.
Fire in the hole...
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,945
- 9,372
I don't disagree at all, WT. What you post is what matters. Swaying the masses doesn't matter.
But that still doesn't quite explain why you saw fit to vote up your own posts 1727 times.
Maybe ,maybe not. But labor sure saved Delta's ass when USair made a run on them.
You don't dispute that do ya? Yet you discount labors influence in this circumstance.
Inconsistant logic or just wishful thinking on your part?
mistified
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #149
no, contrary to CW, labor did not save DL's backside from US.
US' plan failed because US intentionally said that they intended to reduce the size of the airline and to do it at the expense of DL's non-union employees.
DL rallied a bunch of employees to go to Washington to argue about how back the SE would suffer as a result of a combined DL-US but the reason the US merger was DOA was because labor rose up against the cuts which they would be forced to make - but it came not because of the company's restructuring but thru a transaction over which the government had control - mergers. Against the backdrop of AA's dismantling of STL which began very shortly after that merger, DL employees had no problem convincing politicians that the US didn't need another merger in which one carrier bought another solely to be dismantled, even if that wasn't the intention AA had when it bought TW.
Combine the very real fear of cuts to capacity and the job losses that would come and then add in that DL's standalone restructuring plan provided superior results to the creditors and it became clear that US could not win.
Parker deserves credit for trying to save jobs with his plan and for not targeting AA employees for the eventual cuts that have to be made.
But what he can't change is that no one believes the combined AA-US can deliver all he says it will - less job cuts, pay raises for virtually everyone compared to the current US and AA's standalone plan, and revenue growth which is far larger than what either AA or US have generated as standalones - and it is obvious why the non-labor creditors are not onboard.
Saving jobs and restoring pay is great. Not targeting one group of employees for cuts at the hands of another is the law now (well sort of). But all of that still has to be backed by a plan that delivers what the creditors know will or will not provide an appropriate level of return.
Parker's plan now will fail on the basis of the underlying financials even if he has corrected several very grave parts of previous merger attempts. What doesn't change is that the creditors still control AA's outcome now and for months into the future and that they are not convinced that a plan has been proposed that can top the return they will receive - backed up by believable financials.
If Parker did that, I have no doubt the creditors would act - just as they would have with DL-US.
Because it's not about popularity or votes - it's about what's deep under the surface - the substance of the issue that matters.
US' plan failed because US intentionally said that they intended to reduce the size of the airline and to do it at the expense of DL's non-union employees.
DL rallied a bunch of employees to go to Washington to argue about how back the SE would suffer as a result of a combined DL-US but the reason the US merger was DOA was because labor rose up against the cuts which they would be forced to make - but it came not because of the company's restructuring but thru a transaction over which the government had control - mergers. Against the backdrop of AA's dismantling of STL which began very shortly after that merger, DL employees had no problem convincing politicians that the US didn't need another merger in which one carrier bought another solely to be dismantled, even if that wasn't the intention AA had when it bought TW.
Combine the very real fear of cuts to capacity and the job losses that would come and then add in that DL's standalone restructuring plan provided superior results to the creditors and it became clear that US could not win.
Parker deserves credit for trying to save jobs with his plan and for not targeting AA employees for the eventual cuts that have to be made.
But what he can't change is that no one believes the combined AA-US can deliver all he says it will - less job cuts, pay raises for virtually everyone compared to the current US and AA's standalone plan, and revenue growth which is far larger than what either AA or US have generated as standalones - and it is obvious why the non-labor creditors are not onboard.
Saving jobs and restoring pay is great. Not targeting one group of employees for cuts at the hands of another is the law now (well sort of). But all of that still has to be backed by a plan that delivers what the creditors know will or will not provide an appropriate level of return.
Parker's plan now will fail on the basis of the underlying financials even if he has corrected several very grave parts of previous merger attempts. What doesn't change is that the creditors still control AA's outcome now and for months into the future and that they are not convinced that a plan has been proposed that can top the return they will receive - backed up by believable financials.
If Parker did that, I have no doubt the creditors would act - just as they would have with DL-US.
Because it's not about popularity or votes - it's about what's deep under the surface - the substance of the issue that matters.
robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
- 11,125
- 2,676
goldman sachs thinks and seem to believe they can get a better return and are urgin the other creditors etc to back a merger itsallgoing to be interesting to see how it all plays out over the next several months
