Mancityfan;
As I'm sure your aware there is a lot more to a contract than wage rates. The offer still stands. What have you got to hide? Do I expect to make as much as a Pilot? No. But some pilots need to be reminded that they too are just employees. You've done a good job marketing yourselves but that doesn’t mean that you should tell mechanics what they should do, you’re not in the military anymore.
Give me a copy of what the pilots are getting then we can compare. It’s not a question of killing the company. Do you feel that United’s crisis will last until 2008? If so then you should just start looking for another job now. If the crisis may be over by this time next year why should anyone agree to 6 years of concessions? Oh Yea, the ATSB. How convenient. The ATSB is a scam that is capitalizing on the current crisis to lower wages and you’re falling for it.
However, I am a 737 Captain, and will be going (it looks like, based ont he 49 aircraft we are grounding and the ones we have already parked) to the 767 F/O seat from whence I came three years ago. I will take a $71.05 per hour pay cut. We have a 75 hour guarantee, so that works out to $64K. I will also take a $7,034 per year cut in my retirement that I will NEVER EVER GET BACK. So, that is a $71K+ cut. And I can assure you, it WILL make a HUGE difference in my life for the full term of the contract! It is ALMOST HALF of my current pay or about two-thirds of my new pay! With the aircraft orders gone, the RJs proliferating, and the Star Alliance taking over many of the intl routes, I can guarantee you there will be an absolute minimum of seat movement over the term of this contract. In fact, it is already written into our scope agreement that the fleet WILL shrink!
I will be the first;
DONT COMPLAIN, YOU VOTED FOR THIS! Get used to it because you are going to be hearing it for the next six, possibly eight or even ten, years.
Believe me when I say NO-ONE is making out on this deal. Person for person, the pilots, who I grant you make more pay, are making a CONSIDERABLY BIGGER CONTRIBUTION IN BOTH PERCENTAGE AND DOLLAR TERMS than ANY other group. ANY!
Trust me some people are set to make out very well if this deal goes through, just not the employees of UAL or any other airline. As far as the pilots giving more the fact is they will still be getting more and they have more to lose. The fact is the pilots’ financial fate is more deeply tied to Uniteds survival than the mechanics financial fate. Apparently the majority of the mechanics realized that they had more to lose by voting YES to 6 more years of concessions so they voted NO. If you guys want to save the company so badly then you come up with the extra $600 million, even at that the average pilot will still be making more than the top paid mechanic. Then you can get all their profit sharing and stock options! If the company recovers you will make out like bandits and all they will get is their paychecks.
Also, while we are at it, I would be interested to know how many of the 8,800 pilots left at UAL are making anything CLOSE to $300K? Get real!
I said, So the few pilots that actually see a real pay cut after the 6 year contract will be a handful of the top paid pilots that are still around. I realize that only a few make the top rate.
I honestly think that UAL will tell the judge that the IAM has a seat on the BOD, that they have known the numbers all along, and their participation in the union coalition, and the resultant T/A, was an indication that they understood both the need and the urgency. UAL has simply run out of money. Then, the judge will retire to his chambers, read the company proposal to save what little is left that is not already mortgaged or leveraged to the hilt, and he will ALLOW the company (and creditor committee) to proceed with their plans.
And the mechanics will be free to Strike, work to rule or utilize any other form of self-help they desire, and so will the company. Then the games will begin.
Or better yet, call your buddies at USAir, I am sure they ALL know by now!
Ah yes, they agreed to concessions and guess what? Less than 1Qtr into the deal and the company has come back for more. What do you think UAL will be doing? Pretty soon you will think that you are flying an RJ when you look at your paycheck.
Look, I don’t want to see you guys get hammered. To tell the truth I like the fact that the guy flying is someone who made the cut and is well paid. It inspires confidence and allows me to relax. You guys seem to have unusual contracts; some things work out in your favor some don’t. I'd rather have a defined career path, I want to know what I'm going to make and when I'm going to make it. I put in 40 hours I get paid for 40.You guys leave a lot to chance and if your lucky you can hit the jackpot of that $300K or whatever it is job working 50 hours a month but getting paid for 75. In the meantime you fly your buts off for years, spending weeks out of the month on the road but only getting paid for flight time, making much, much less than that top figure. But everyone assumes that you all make that top figure, maybe its good for picking up chicks that people think that way but it can at times work against you, like now.
I'm a mechanic; I know that if the mechanics at United accept this deal it will sweep through the industry. I've got 22 years (25 if you count school) in this industry and last year was the first time I felt that we were fairly paid. The old timers used to talk about how they used to pay off SS by September at the latest, I’ve only paid it off once, in December. Mechanics have given the industry an increase in productivity of over 30% over the last twenty years and up until our last contract we have worked under concessionary agreements since 1983. After such a long trek to reach a decent rate of pay I would rather throw it all away and start a new career than start going backwards again.
28 PM Busdrvr wrote: 
26 EST
47 AM wts54 wrote: 
