Mechanics Ramp Up Strike Threat Against United

[UAL_TECH]

767jetz,May 6 2005, 05:40 PM]

The fact is that the battle is between the workers and the airlines. The airlines chose this battle, not the workers. If it comes to that, starting over may not be as painful either. Ive seen more people quit the last two years than I did the prior 23 years.

I dont work at UA but if we get the chance to fight back I'm more than willing, even if it meant that the company might cease operations and I had to start over. At least if you are starting over there is the chance that things might get better. Once the path of concessions has begun the only way the workers can stop it is by striking. Once management knows how weak the workers are there is no other way of stopping them. If the strike liquidates the company then you can be sure thats where it was headed anyway, the only thing concessions can do is delay it at the cost of working for less.

[post="267170"][/post]​

Bob,

We are single minded in our resolve and I thank you for your support!!!

Also, our 'Pension Rally Protest' does not exclude anyone.
Have your supporters join us on this issue as it is not industry specific.
Our signs do not display a union logo.
Our last rally included support from the carpenters union to non-union secretaries.

All are welcome!!!

An injustice to one is an injustice to all!!

Take Care,
B) UAL_TECH

 

[MCI transplant]

It doesn't matter.  If UA goes under the pensions are gone anyway.  There are those that say if I lose my pension then I'll burn the place down so no one will benefit.

Well that's short sighted.  Sure, if you are here only for the pension and nothing else maybe that might be a strategy.  But besides the pension, people make their daily wage  and support their families from the income.  And if UA survives, then there is also a replacement retirement plan, 401K, and the PBGC to make up for some of what's lost.

Putting this place out eliminates all of those things.

You ask what about those who don't have time to make it up.  What about those who have no job?  Or those who have no health insurance? Or those who are homeless?

There are many cases of people who, for one reason or another, have fallen on tough times.  Is is everyone else's fault?  If people do not have enough time left to save for retirement, and haven't planned contingencies in their future, they will have a harder time of it for sure.  But should everyone else suffer for their misfortune or lack of planning?

One way or another the pensions will go, either voluntarily or through liquidation.  So for those unprepared I suggest they start looking for a higher paying job with better benefits to make up the difference.

In the end, a compromised negotiated resolution will be in the majority's best interest.

[post="267184"][/post]​

<_< If you give them this, do you really think they'll stop here and ask for no more?????I know! I know! Our Union caved in first! I'm not proud of that! And I'm also sure they'll be back for more! So where do you draw the line? You give them what they want, this time, buy a little time, and when they come back, which they will! Then what???

 

[767jetz]

<_< If you give them this, do you really think they'll stop here and ask for no more?????

[post="267267"][/post]​

Actually, yes I do believe that will be it for employee concessions.

I spoke to Tilton personally, and he said he wants UA to emerge and be competitive on cost while retaining some value for the employees when compared to our peers. Was he blowing sunshine up my wazzoo? Maybe. Maybe not.

I believed him. Take it for what it's worth. I have more faith in Tilton than any of our former CEO's.

He has not come back to ALPA for more, and there is no indication that he will. In fact the company and ALPA have been making some progress on "quality of life" isssues as promised. So I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. We have come so far. So let him finish his work and emerge from BK. If they come back for more later, we can cross that bridge at that time. Why pull the trigger on our company for fear of something that hasn't happened yet. Sure we've lost alot, but we still have more than many of our peers in the industry.

No one ever promised that the pensions would be left alone. In fact it has been said all along that they will most likely have to be replaced by a less expensive program. Why does this surprise so many people?

 

[novaqt]

767Jetz:

I happen to agree with you about Tilton. He has been the best of all the CEO's I've worked under since I came here in 95. John Teague is fabulous. I wish he had been at United along time ago. Would you know where Doug Hacker is and what he is up to. Far to quiet about him. We all hear from time to time from Brace and McDonald, but not Hacker.

 

[Winglet]

Take it for what it's worth. I have more faith in Tilton than any of our former CEO's.

[post="267528"][/post]​

After that greedy stupid buffoon Goodwin, that's not say much.

 

[El Gato]

To all UAL mechs and F/A's about to go on strike/CHAOS:

THANK YOU. I LOVE YOU ALL SO MUCH! KEEP UP THE SPIRIT AND SHOW THE CEO AND THE JUDGE WHO IS REALLY IN CONTROL! YOU HAVE THE POWER - USE IT! WALK THE LINE, AND DON'T TAKE ANY DUFF!!! AMFA & AFA FOREVER!!!

-Your friend,
Herb

 

[The Gopher]

Would you know where Doug Hacker is and what he is up to. Far to quiet about him. We all hear from time to time from Brace and McDonald, but not Hacker.

[post="267534"][/post]​

Hacker is Sr. VP of Resource Planning, one level below Tague.

 

[Fly]

To all UAL mechs and F/A's about to go on strike/CHAOS:

THANK YOU. I LOVE YOU ALL SO MUCH! KEEP UP THE SPIRIT AND SHOW THE CEO AND THE JUDGE WHO IS REALLY IN CONTROL! YOU HAVE THE POWER - USE IT! WALK THE LINE, AND DON'T TAKE ANY DUFF!!! AMFA & AFA FOREVER!!!

-Your friend,
Herb

[post="267933"][/post]​

Give me a break!!! You are hoping we are stupid enough to burn down the company. This type of support we can do without. Nice try though. :down:

 

[JungleClone]

Hacker is not Sr. VP of Resource Planning. That would be Greg Taylor. Hacker is supposedly the EVP of Strategy, which is quite funny since every press release and leadership call dealing with anything of a strategy nature is handled by John Tague and/or Pete McDonald. Maybe Tilton has finally figured out what the other 99.9% of the company did years ago: Doug Hacker is completely useless as an executive at United Airlines. While CFO, he presided over the complete destruction of United's balance sheet and the folly that was the US Airways merger attempt. Same with Jake Brace. Tilton is supposedly big on accountability. So tell me how Jake Brace and Doug Hacker have been held to account for their complete and utter failure as executives of this company? They haven't. On the contrary, they've proven that failure only gets your promotions and hefty bonuses.

 

[El Gato]

Give me a break!!! You are hoping we are stupid enough to burn down the company. This type of support we can do without. Nice try though. :down:

[post="267983"][/post]​

Burn Baby BURN!!!

No, just kidding. Really. The only people who want to see it burn is the competition, as in Herb. And the AA and CO folks. And the Jetblue's of the world...

 

[767jetz]

Lots of "hoopla" here. Union leadership MUST talk tough in order to satisfy the membership. This is normal strategy for the IAM, AFA, and probably AMFA to a lesser degree, to take everything down to the wire.

In the end, there will be a consensual agreement met, where the unions can claim a victory and save face, and the company will get the savings it needs and act as if they submitted to labor.

All parties involved know what's at stake and know which path leads to the lessor of 2 evils. This is the way it has happened over and over again in the past.

See this article. It basically hints to the continued possibility of a last minute agreement.

 

[gatemech]

Here is why I support a strike.

I strongly believe that Tilton will come back for more. The banks willing to finance the BK exit will tell him to get just a little more.

The mechanic concessions have been more of a "Finally got you SOB's. We will bust your union and bring you to your knees".

Attacking sick time is not necessary. Sick leave is for sick. Granted it get abused. If you have a child that breaks an arm at school you need to stay home. 24 hr stomach bug gets you. We all know that being at work just isn't an option for that one. But now it becomes a financial burden to help a family member or yourself.

The change to vacation is a joke. I mean the years to get there. Most will be at 20 years before the contract is amendable. I don't see much savings. Sorry about the guys with 6 & 7 weeks. That one I think is lost for sure. I can understand the 7th week. The 6th is questionable in my opinion.

Now to the nuts & bolts. United at one time was an industry leader in A/C maintenance. Some say it still is. The store keepers delivering parts, mechanics, machinist, welders, platers, garage, engineering, and yes at one time management made SFO, IND, & OAK the finest aircraft maintenance facilities in the world. All that was built on the backs of the union employees. In just three years that has been destroyed.

IF YOU HAVE THE TALENT USE IT !!!

All of those facilities could have been profitable if run proper. I have seen one crazy idea after another and none have worked. Employees have never been asked for input. Not even during ESOP. That was just smoke & mirrors. I can only hope that the management that has gone to the OSV's will make the same mistakes there.

Pay: All we want is a fair wage for what we do and for the responsibility we take. It has been said before but nobody has a problem paying $80 hour to get their car fixed but they don't want to pay the aircraft mechanic a living wage. Do you think Tilton works on his car because it is too expensive at the dealer? He pays and is probably happy to do so. When signing of an item our names go with that aircraft. From fixing a seat recline cable to the torque on an engine change our names stay with that aircraft. Who do you think they come to when something happens? THE MECHANIC. The hi price of fuel is not the fault of the employees and we should not have to pay for it. AMFA has offer other cost saving ideas and the company doesn't want to listen. I have lived a modest lifestyle and kept my debt low. I am almost at the point of having to sell my house.


Overtime: The Company At Times needs to have overtime to keep the operation smooth. I have always been told that a certain amount was good. Now why should they reduce the double time? We give up our days off to keep the aircraft in the air and they want to pay less for it. We deserve the double time for being away from our families. If the operation was run and staffed properly OT would be very low.

Holidays: Since most of the mechanics left work RDO's we have to work holidays. We should be paid for all that we had and no less. Including floaters.

I could go on. The BK process has been an attack on employees. Where is the business plan? Is TED going to save UAL? When I look to buy a ticket I can't afford to fly TED. Southwest, America West and others are always cheaper. What is Tilton going to do different from the past to make UAL a success? I haven't read anything yet. All I see are term sheets for concessions and bonuses going in the pockets of the execs.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

I will support my union. If they say to strike then I strike. The old saying of live to fight another day is old. I am not even proud to tell people I work for United. Maybe the end of UAL will be the correction the industry needs. Sacrifice one for the whole.

gatemech

 

[Fly]

Your union will buckle, just like the ones before it. Remember, your union has one agenda...just one....$$$$$. Everyone knows what will happen if anyone strikes. Regardless of the paycuts you've taken, how many has your union taken? That should be telling of what really matters to them.

Mark my words, They Will Come To A Last Minute Deal With The Company.

B)

 

[767jetz]

Here is why I support a strike.

I strongly believe that Tilton will come back for more. The banks willing to finance the BK exit will tell him to get just a little more.

[post="268007"][/post]​

gatemech,

OK. Although I don't agree with you, at least I can see your reasoning. It is better than the BS I here from others about striking out of spite. Or worse, the employees from other airlines yelling up to the guy on the ledge of the skyscraper to jump!

I have immediate family who are AMFA. (Recently medically retired line mech from JFK) I know how hard the mechanics have taken a hit. His pension will be affected which will directly affect me. And as we often discuss, his decision and that of his fellow AMFA members will not only affect him, but his children and grandchildren. Not to mention thousands of other United family members.

So allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment...

What if Tilton does not come back for more, and after the pensions are replaced with something else, and current cost savings are made permanent he is actually done coming to us? What if that gets us out of bankruptcy and able to move forward once again? If you say the main reason is because you think he will come back for more, why not wait and see what happens. If he doesn't, UA will be able to move forward and rebuild. If he does, then the line has been drawn and you can strike then.

You see, if he comes back for more after this round, he will come back after all of us. And I believe that everyone is at their bottom line. We all knew the pensions were history. Sure there were a couple of long shots that didn't pan out. (ie: a magical recovery of the stock market, or major reform being passed.) Once they are gone there is nothing left to take. What's there to lose by waiting to see, instead of assuming he will come back for more?

Just some food for thought. Whatever the unions decide, there is no worry of people crossing picket lines. The doors will close before the picket signs can even go up.

 

[Busdrvr]

GateMech, why not ask your union to enter into a contract that has FIRM drop dead dates for BK exit? Maybe even throw in a 'snapback with retro' clause if they can't honor those dates? Imagine tilton trying to explain that the company won't agree to a new contract because it requires BK exit by some time this fall...