Management Presents "plan" To Afa

[PITbull]

USfliboi,

If you are truly a f/a, I suggest you pick up from the internet America West Contract. I have it in my possession. YOu will see first hand that many of the conessionary language that U f/as ratified comes directly from the America West contract. You will also see the signators of the America West contract signed by our very own senior and middle management team that was recruited here. There sure is a lot of place.

Not sure what youre talking about I never said anything about america west.

No one said you did. You obviously don't think that deep.

Read the post again. Obviously you missed something in the translation.

 

[UseYourHead]

If you look real real hard, a light bulb may go off that just maybe, and I mean maybe, Chip Munn has it not quite right with the UCT with United.....but rather some kind of acquisition/merger type transaction with none other than:

Mesa/America West/and USAirways.

Purely speculation, but put some focused energy on that for awhile and chew it.

PitBull,

Interesting concept, and it is one of the many possibilities out there....

 

[PITbull]

If you look real real hard, a light bulb may go off that just maybe, and I mean maybe, Chip Munn has it not quite right with the UCT with United.....but rather some kind of acquisition/merger type transaction with none other than:

Mesa/America West/and USAirways.

Purely speculation, but put some focused energy on that for awhile and chew it.

PitBull,

Interesting concept, and it is one of the many possibilities out there....

Use your head,

I have this suspecion.....and trust me, I can't wait to write the first book on this whole ordeal of what happened to us here and how. And you know, I have a lot of material, step by step and in chronological order.

 

[UseYourHead]

Regarding the new Reserve System,



At least on the pilots side, from what I've heard, the

people responsible for this product are either junior,

don't fly actively, or are furloughed.



While this new reserve system was being devised, there was no

information being distributed until near the end product.



What happend to membership input, especially from those folks

on reserve ?


76200

76200,

Are you on reserve? What system would you like to see?

 

[UseYourHead]

I find it interesting that within minutes, within minutes, after I post a comment about US Airways' business partner, the United employees post a rebuttal. Why are the United employees seemingly always on the US Airways board, but the opposite is not true?

Well, with the Chicago-based company apparently now in an internal crisis mode, unable to provide a business plan and plan of reorganization (POR) to the court again, as well as reportedly going to miss its DIP targets for the next two months, it may not matter if the company has an exclusive right to file its POR.

In fact, the creditors committee is likely to have a say in anything going forward, which may not be pretty.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

It no doubt will get more interesting over there between now and exit time....

 

[UseYourHead]

useyourhead and usfliboi, how did Dave serve you this?

We gave concessions to Dave twice, he lied, cheated and stole and you trust him?

Wow, amazing.

Trusting Dave, and make the correct choices going forward are two different choices....

 

[PITbull]

Use your head,

For the f/as, I would like to see a more fair system, that is condusive to human functioning in the work place. "quality of life" is important in any job you take. The following is a system that I think would fit both the co. needs and f/as, and its a cost savings from the previous system.

A system that is driven by seniority, but staggers the reserves where 30% start their month on the 15th through the 15th of the next month, rather than the 1 through the 30th. This was a system that was brought forward from our LECP PHL Pres. back in the summer. This reserve system would ensure that there would be coverage in the begining of the month and end, which most of the holidays lie, including superbowl Sunday. A system where passing was limited to "passing for more time" only. In this system, trips would still be by seniority and you could get your time in, but couldn't time out in the month. But the 30% would be on a bid system and would rotate.

Mangement entire premise was to make sure they have coverage for their operation in the beginning of the month and end, and restricting passing. But, what this company insisted on was a system that "mirrors" America West. WE just got our numbers from the Winter restructuring agreement, and you will die when I tell you they got from AFA.......$123 Million! Last winter, our Boogie number was $26 Million. But, through the year and with all the grievances filed with the Reserve system of "time balance" and in % to boot, along with the sick pay penalties that managemente got to capture more cost saving than was ratified, our numbers went up to $123 million through 2008. That means we gave approx. $31 million year. Proof that they stole more than what was on paper in December 2002.

They just submited this to us last week. This is called "railroading". Leading you to the water and actually forcing the water down your throat until you choke.


So, here we are again....round #3, I just can't wait :angry:

PS: There you are Bob. You say AFA never gives a suggestion...we did, they turned a deaf ear.

 

[UseYourHead]

Question for anyone. When I pull up USAviation, this is where my favorites leads:
USAviation

I don't go to a specific airline board.....they are all just there together...most recent posting at the top. Do others just go to one airline, or do you go to a board like this? I ask because it keeps getting thrown out there that we are canvassing the US board (but we aren't....well, I'm not anyway) Anyway, I hope this explains why I respond to questions pertaining to UAL that are posted on US boards.

Re-save your favorite to the dicussion forum you want to enter from....

 

[UseYourHead]

One thing that would help I think all F/a's in the new plan is for the F/a's to agree to be split from the pilots on trips. I just got off a 4 day, first day was one leg from PHL to PVD. Then we all went to the hotel. No reason why the F/a's could not have flown another 3 or 4 hrs. No reason the pilots couldn't fly more as well, but that's another story. The trips that make up the blocks are made up by the Flight Dept. after getting the raw data from Marketing. F/a's are not part of Flight. Just along for the ride with the trips.
My trip was worth 20 and change. Now if for the same 4 days if was worth 24:30 for the F/a's, you tell me.
It would be less days per month, but flying more per day. And maybe more reserve F/a's would break 72. I would miss the old way, been doing it now for 25 years. But times change, and I think we are one of the few, if not the only airline where the crew stays toghether.

That is not a bad idea, we did that at Piedmont, and like any change, it has pros and cons....

 

[UseYourHead]

756pro,

  Instead of pointing fingers and playing the blame game, what do you propose any management team do to turn things around here; pretend for a minute you are the new CEO.

The only thing you post is rage, blame, and negativity...get ahold of yourself.

Pointing fingers you call it.

What has been done to the employees of U is totally and absolutely inexcusable and you are worried about me pointing fingers to where the blame squarely lies. Why does that bother you, why would you care?

Let me answer that: Because you are trying to shift the focus to getting people to believe a sound and rational mind is what is needed, that there is no problem at the top, that this team is the one and only answer, that everyone should embrace them and get behind them 1000 %. If you don't shift the focus then the reality that this team has lost all and any creditability is plain to see with my post.

I say you and this management team are the ones that need to get a grip.

Get a grip on the fact the employee are completely fed up with all the lies and heavy handed tactics handed out by this team who believes that the only way to run a successful company is thru ruthless tyranny, and that employees dare not mutter one word of disapproval of these tactics that are shoved down their throats.

I saw the movie "Anger Management" tonight, you should consider a "Program" for you....

 

[PITbull]

One thing that would help I think all F/a's in the new plan is for the F/a's to agree to be split from the pilots on trips. I just got off a 4 day, first day was one leg from PHL to PVD. Then we all went to the hotel. No reason why the F/a's could not have flown another 3 or 4 hrs. No reason the pilots couldn't fly more as well, but that's another story. The trips that make up the blocks are made up by the Flight Dept. after getting the raw data from Marketing. F/a's are not part of Flight. Just along for the ride with the trips.
My trip was worth 20 and change. Now if for the same 4 days if was worth 24:30 for the F/a's, you tell me.
It would be less days per month, but flying more per day. And maybe more reserve F/a's would break 72. I would miss the old way, been doing it now for 25 years. But times change, and I think we are one of the few, if not the only airline where the crew stays toghether.

Atlantic,

The only way it would help the company...is by getting rid of the rig first. Right now, that 1 leg flown, guarantees you 5 hours pay. Not many trips like that because the "optimizer" c/s program shows too much penalty on that. So, you won't see many trips like that at all. But, even so. What you are asking above is that you fly for an extra few legs to get the 5 hours pay, which you receive now for only flying 1 leg.

That is a huge give, that makes f/as work more hours for actually the same pay. Mangement will take the "me too"rig, and tie us to the pilots in order not to have to negotiatie with AFA on that peice, and then decide to ask to split us off from the pilots. That's my hunch.

Presently, the "rig penalty" is not that much of a cost savings to management anymore as the "optimizer" took care of that some time ago. Management right now has it in their power to utilize the a/c more and utilize crews more, without and rig change. That 1 leg for the pilots and f/as could be changed if the route structure and a/c utlization was programmed.

Nothing is holding them up except the "talent" needed to implement it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

PitBull,

I know sorta what you meant, but some may not.

That one leg doesn't pay 5 hours because we don't have the hard "5 hour per duty period" anymore. The "5 hour average" means that the one leg day only pays the one leg.

The remainder of your post is right on - as long as the rigs are the same, the trips will be the same. Most of the F/A's that I work with seem to like the entire crew staying together, but that doesn't make it a majority. I personally like staying together, and in this day & environment would rather know who's working the back of the plane. In the Piedmont days there were many times when I didn't know who was in back & they didn't know who was up front.

Jim

 

[PITbull]

Boieing Boy,

The rig stays if the average is 5 hours per day. A 3 day trip is still worth 15 hours, unless you have a cancellation. If the first fay is 1 leg, and the second day average is 5 hours and the 3 rd day same 5 hours, the trip can't be worth less than 15 hours. Unless, the "no floor" ; "no ceiling" in affect from winter restructuring agreement means actual pay time. Period. That means the 3 day could possibly be only worth 11 or 12 hours? I thought they programed the system to work an 5 hour averge varaible min.

Please respond.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Pit,

You are correct in that if the 1st (or last) day has 1 1/2 hours and the other days only pay 5 hours each, that short day will pay 5 hours to make the trip worth 15 hours.

However, the normal pattern (using short 1st day) is 1 1/2 on day one, 7 1/2 on day 2, and 6 on day 3 - resulting in 15 hours and no rig. You can change the actual numbers around, but the result is long days offset short days to come up to the 5 hour "average".

Jim

 

[PITbull]

Ok. That is the way I was told it was to work.

However, what Atlantic is saying is that his 1 day trip of 1 leg gave him less pay. I don't want to speak for his "intent", but that is what I gathered. I was just responding and saying that no matter, his trip if a 2 day or 3 day or 4 day should average 5 hours pay. Perhaps 1 day less, but made up the other day.

As a worker, I would rather get paid for doing 1 leg and get paid the averge 5 hours of pay, than have to work an additonal 3 legs that day, and get paid the same 5 hours. Not a cost saving to U, but a "hump" saver to the f/a whose trips of late have been nothing short of exhausting. Atlantic's trip of flying 1 leg in a day, if they are a U employee, is so rare. And most trips do not have a rig payout. I beleive the "Penalty time" is less than 3% for the duty rig. Insignificant to the co. at this point.