Luv Into Phl
- Thread starter Furloughedagain
- Start date
Good Luck. Those babies of yours have been eating pretty nicely over the past years - thanks to US high labor costs. Herb is giving people in PHL a break - they are tired of paying high fares the equvalent of their car/home paymentsPineyBob said:
Let the games begin.
N513AU
Advanced
- Aug 20, 2002
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Two things....
1. US Airways is screwed
2. Southwest will certainly experience the love of the city of brotherly shove. Rude passengers and massive air traffic delays. Drop of rain or rumble of thunder anywhere in PA and 2-4 hour ground stops quickly come upon PHL. As for the PHL crowd....its the original home of urbanized, northern white trash. The same crappy city that was featured in Springsteen videos and Rocky, is well, the same same crappy, filthy, rude city. Yo, fogetta about it.
One by one the nails get hammered into the coffin for US Airways. I'm willing to bet that Siegel uses this as an opportunity to beg for more from you.
1. US Airways is screwed
2. Southwest will certainly experience the love of the city of brotherly shove. Rude passengers and massive air traffic delays. Drop of rain or rumble of thunder anywhere in PA and 2-4 hour ground stops quickly come upon PHL. As for the PHL crowd....its the original home of urbanized, northern white trash. The same crappy city that was featured in Springsteen videos and Rocky, is well, the same same crappy, filthy, rude city. Yo, fogetta about it.
One by one the nails get hammered into the coffin for US Airways. I'm willing to bet that Siegel uses this as an opportunity to beg for more from you.
N513AU
Advanced
- Aug 20, 2002
- 219
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You're exactly right....but Southwest advertises truthfully. Coach on US Airways (or anyone) sucks just as bad, but WN at least tells customers you're going to get a seat, a bag of peanuts and transportation. US Airways and so on still pretends to offer that and customers get pissed when they don't get the warm meal and their ------- wiped.
Piney,
>>>>Yea, well I for one will not be riding the "Greyhound Bus with wings" SWA according to a survey I have is only the cheapest fare 26% of the time. SWA's price advantage is mostly a myth based on my personal experience. <<<<
Often another airline will advertise or say they match SW's or some other LCC price....but for a VERY limited number of seats -- or check out the huge paragraph with all the very restrictive limitations and conditions for those seats in the VERY fine print at the bottom of the ad. I am sure SW will beat U ANYTIME on ANY walk-up fare also and that is what attracts the last minute business flier -- they know they aren't going to get raped by USAirway's high walk-up fares.
However, I think most of you are getting overly excited about SWA coming into PHL. Mike Boyd and I don't think it's aimed at USAirways -- it's a strategic move against JetBlue and Airtran -- but mostly a shot at JetBlue. SWA is much more concerned about Jetblue than USAirways. Here is a quote from Mike Boyd:
"Industry consultant Michael Boyd said the move into Philadelphia likely was aimed at preventing rival JetBlue from gaining a foothold there.
"This was a strike directly to stop expansion by JetBlue," he said. "This was not a strike against US Airways. US Airways was just an innocent bystander." "
>>>>Yea, well I for one will not be riding the "Greyhound Bus with wings" SWA according to a survey I have is only the cheapest fare 26% of the time. SWA's price advantage is mostly a myth based on my personal experience. <<<<
Often another airline will advertise or say they match SW's or some other LCC price....but for a VERY limited number of seats -- or check out the huge paragraph with all the very restrictive limitations and conditions for those seats in the VERY fine print at the bottom of the ad. I am sure SW will beat U ANYTIME on ANY walk-up fare also and that is what attracts the last minute business flier -- they know they aren't going to get raped by USAirway's high walk-up fares.
However, I think most of you are getting overly excited about SWA coming into PHL. Mike Boyd and I don't think it's aimed at USAirways -- it's a strategic move against JetBlue and Airtran -- but mostly a shot at JetBlue. SWA is much more concerned about Jetblue than USAirways. Here is a quote from Mike Boyd:
"Industry consultant Michael Boyd said the move into Philadelphia likely was aimed at preventing rival JetBlue from gaining a foothold there.
"This was a strike directly to stop expansion by JetBlue," he said. "This was not a strike against US Airways. US Airways was just an innocent bystander." "
FlyingHippie
Senior
- Jan 27, 2003
- 283
- 0
"Industry consultant Michael Boyd said the move into Philadelphia likely was aimed at preventing rival JetBlue from gaining a foothold there.
"This was a strike directly to stop expansion by JetBlue," he said. "This was not a strike against US Airways. US Airways was just an innocent bystander." "
So, US Airways is a victim of a run-by "looting"?
"This was a strike directly to stop expansion by JetBlue," he said. "This was not a strike against US Airways. US Airways was just an innocent bystander." "
So, US Airways is a victim of a run-by "looting"?
Finish or Ignore
Senior
- Aug 30, 2002
- 342
- 1
USAIRWAYS RESPONDS WITH AGGRESSIVE MARKETING CAMPAIGN!!
EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY GARMENT BOXES WILL INCREASE TO $15.00
EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY GARMENT BOXES WILL INCREASE TO $15.00
This thing is interesting for several reasons:
1 Not an alternate
The fact that WN did not choose ABE or TTN signals a new type of WN. They have always avoided markets with excessive delays and bad weather.
2 A vibrant hub
They have not entered a hub since Detroit. When they entered BWI US had signaled its demise, but they reversed course after WN entered...before reversing course again. Does this mean MSP/IAD/DEN/DFW is far behind?
3 Multiple battles
In the past WN has taken on ATA in Midway and Air Tran in Baltimore and America West in numerous Midwest-LAS/PHX markets, but this is the first time they have attacked so many carriers as once. It is likely they will face US Airways as well as Air Tran or ATA in virtually every city they fly to from Philly...plus Jet Blue is right up the road competing for New Jersey passengers.
This is not to say that WN has bitten off more than they can chew, but it is certainly out of character. You have to wonder if they are abandoning their traditional philosophy of flying to medium sized cities like Norfolk. They promised Richmond would be their next city and Philly would never get WN flights.
They are now taking on the growing low-costs and the dying majors simultaneously. If they don't stumble they may take over virtually all domestic flying eventually...until they start flying international!
...as for US Airways...
Not to be overly dramatic, but Philly is clearly the only place Airways makes money (besides DCA-BOS...the LGA Shuttle is an habitual loser). They've downgraded DCA and LGA to a nub, they have pulled back PIT which can't be making money and CLT has always been marginal with all the low yield Florida flow. Philly was the last outpost of high fares. I think this sends them back to Chapter 11, not tomorrow but eventually. Bronner could see the losses next Summer and decide to liquidate. I think Airways in its present form has 24 months left. At that point, they will probably be nothing more than a United Express RJ operator with a lot of slots and gates...kind of like ACA!
1 Not an alternate
The fact that WN did not choose ABE or TTN signals a new type of WN. They have always avoided markets with excessive delays and bad weather.
2 A vibrant hub
They have not entered a hub since Detroit. When they entered BWI US had signaled its demise, but they reversed course after WN entered...before reversing course again. Does this mean MSP/IAD/DEN/DFW is far behind?
3 Multiple battles
In the past WN has taken on ATA in Midway and Air Tran in Baltimore and America West in numerous Midwest-LAS/PHX markets, but this is the first time they have attacked so many carriers as once. It is likely they will face US Airways as well as Air Tran or ATA in virtually every city they fly to from Philly...plus Jet Blue is right up the road competing for New Jersey passengers.
This is not to say that WN has bitten off more than they can chew, but it is certainly out of character. You have to wonder if they are abandoning their traditional philosophy of flying to medium sized cities like Norfolk. They promised Richmond would be their next city and Philly would never get WN flights.
They are now taking on the growing low-costs and the dying majors simultaneously. If they don't stumble they may take over virtually all domestic flying eventually...until they start flying international!
...as for US Airways...
Not to be overly dramatic, but Philly is clearly the only place Airways makes money (besides DCA-BOS...the LGA Shuttle is an habitual loser). They've downgraded DCA and LGA to a nub, they have pulled back PIT which can't be making money and CLT has always been marginal with all the low yield Florida flow. Philly was the last outpost of high fares. I think this sends them back to Chapter 11, not tomorrow but eventually. Bronner could see the losses next Summer and decide to liquidate. I think Airways in its present form has 24 months left. At that point, they will probably be nothing more than a United Express RJ operator with a lot of slots and gates...kind of like ACA!
Southwest Airlines Announces Arrival in Philadelphia
Airline Will Announce Flights, Fares Soon
DALLAS, Texas – October 28, 2003 -- The airline known for its “LUV†is teaming up with Philadelphia, the City of Brotherly Love, to let Freedom ring in 2004 when Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) lands at Philadelphia International Airport.
The carrier, making the announcement today in Philadelphia with airport and local officials, will arrive in May 2004 and utilize four gates at the airport to bring Philadelphia area residents up to 14 daily flights initially to a variety of short and longhaul destinations. Southwest will begin service with five new aircraft deliveries from Boeing. Flights and fares will be announced later.
“The Freedom to Fly is a fundamental mission of Southwest,†said Herb Kelleher, Southwest’s Chairman, making the announcement with Philadelphia Mayor Honorable John Street and City of Philadelphia Director of Aviation Charles J. Isdell during a news conference in Philadelphia. “Southwest is well known for stimulating travel demand with its low fares and outstanding Customer Service, and we look forward to introducing the Philadelphia Metropolitan Area to our warm hospitality.â€
Southwest’s breadth of service stretches from coast to coast and border to border with more than 2,800 daily departures serving 58 cities in 30 states. Philadelphia will become Southwest’s 59th city and Pennsylvania its 31st state.
“Southwest’s brand of service will revolutionize air travel in the greater Philadelphia area,†Street said. “It is an exciting day in Pennsylvania when we can announce that Southwest is coming to town.â€
“We’re pleased that our infrastructure and airport operating costs were attractive to Southwest,†Isdell said. “Southwest’s growth has been closely monitored for years, and we know Philadelphia area travelers will respond to the airline’s breadth of service and low fares.â€
When Southwest enters a new city, fares drop dramatically and demand for travel increases. The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) in a 1993 study described the phenomena as the “Southwest Effect.†Examples include:
Between Providence, R.I., and Baltimore/Washington: Within one year of the introduction of Southwest’s service on this route, with an average fare reduction of 73 percent, passenger traffic increased by 782 percent (to more than 500,000 passengers per year).
Rhode Island’s T.F. Green Airport: After Southwest started service in 1996, T.F. Green became the fastest growing airport in the nation, as overall airport traffic jumped 88 percent during Southwest’s first year of service.
Albany, N.Y., International Airport: Between the introduction of Southwest’s service on May 20, 2000, and the end of that year, passenger boardings increased 22.5 percent to a record 1.44 million.
Long Island MacArthur Airport (Islip): In the first full year of Southwest’s service, airport passenger traffic rose 133 percent.
Between Hartford, Conn., and Baltimore/Washington: The average one-way fare was reduced from $146 to $55 and after the first eight months of Southwest’s service on this route, passenger traffic increased from 19,000 to 92,000 passengers per quarter (this route went from being the 1063th busiest city pair in the nation to 248th).
Between Baltimore/Washington and Chicago Midway Airport: When Southwest began service on this route in September 1993, only 3,530 passengers per quarter paid an average one-way fare of $121. By the last quarter of 1997, more than 100,000 passengers per quarter were paying an average one-way fare of only $79 (this route went from being the 240th busiest city pair in the nation to 43rd).
Southwest’s unique brand of Customer Service also will be a departure for Philadelphia area air travelers. The carrier, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation’s (DOT) monthly Air Travel Consumer Report, has consistently received the fewest complaints per 100,000 passengers carried of all major U.S. airlines year over year since 1991. The DOT also reports Southwest has maintained the best cumulative baggage handling record and the best cumulative ontime performance of all major U.S. carriers that have been reporting statistics to the DOT since September 1987, which is when the DOT began tracking such performance statistics and publishing its monthly report.
“We have license plate studies from other airports we serve that tell us people will drive from two or more hours away to take advantage of Southwest’s low fares and high level of Customer Service,†Kelleher said. “Our unparalleled track record, financial strength, and consistent growth helps us make a positive difference in the communities we serve.â€
For more than 32 years, Southwest has been in the business of connecting people-whether they are business executives looking to “close the deal†or loved ones gathering for a special occasion. More than 65 million people each year board Southwest’s young fleet of Boeing 737s to fly across the state or across the country at fares so low sometimes it can actually cost more to drive!
In January 2001, Southwest introduced new aircraft with a fresh canyon blue paint scheme and cool, saddle tan leather interiors and seats. The entire fleet is expected to be converted to the new design and interiors by the end of 2005.
Southwest is now in its 32nd year of operation and has reported 30 consecutive years of profitability. Based in Dallas, Southwest operates a fleet of 385 Boeing 737s with an average age of 9.5 years--one of the youngest pure jet fleets in the domestic airline industry. Even in the aftermath of the tragic events of Sept. 11, 2001, Southwest did not reduce service nor furlough a single Employee.
Airline Will Announce Flights, Fares Soon
DALLAS, Texas – October 28, 2003 -- The airline known for its “LUV†is teaming up with Philadelphia, the City of Brotherly Love, to let Freedom ring in 2004 when Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) lands at Philadelphia International Airport.
The carrier, making the announcement today in Philadelphia with airport and local officials, will arrive in May 2004 and utilize four gates at the airport to bring Philadelphia area residents up to 14 daily flights initially to a variety of short and longhaul destinations. Southwest will begin service with five new aircraft deliveries from Boeing. Flights and fares will be announced later.
“The Freedom to Fly is a fundamental mission of Southwest,†said Herb Kelleher, Southwest’s Chairman, making the announcement with Philadelphia Mayor Honorable John Street and City of Philadelphia Director of Aviation Charles J. Isdell during a news conference in Philadelphia. “Southwest is well known for stimulating travel demand with its low fares and outstanding Customer Service, and we look forward to introducing the Philadelphia Metropolitan Area to our warm hospitality.â€
Southwest’s breadth of service stretches from coast to coast and border to border with more than 2,800 daily departures serving 58 cities in 30 states. Philadelphia will become Southwest’s 59th city and Pennsylvania its 31st state.
“Southwest’s brand of service will revolutionize air travel in the greater Philadelphia area,†Street said. “It is an exciting day in Pennsylvania when we can announce that Southwest is coming to town.â€
“We’re pleased that our infrastructure and airport operating costs were attractive to Southwest,†Isdell said. “Southwest’s growth has been closely monitored for years, and we know Philadelphia area travelers will respond to the airline’s breadth of service and low fares.â€
When Southwest enters a new city, fares drop dramatically and demand for travel increases. The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) in a 1993 study described the phenomena as the “Southwest Effect.†Examples include:
Between Providence, R.I., and Baltimore/Washington: Within one year of the introduction of Southwest’s service on this route, with an average fare reduction of 73 percent, passenger traffic increased by 782 percent (to more than 500,000 passengers per year).
Rhode Island’s T.F. Green Airport: After Southwest started service in 1996, T.F. Green became the fastest growing airport in the nation, as overall airport traffic jumped 88 percent during Southwest’s first year of service.
Albany, N.Y., International Airport: Between the introduction of Southwest’s service on May 20, 2000, and the end of that year, passenger boardings increased 22.5 percent to a record 1.44 million.
Long Island MacArthur Airport (Islip): In the first full year of Southwest’s service, airport passenger traffic rose 133 percent.
Between Hartford, Conn., and Baltimore/Washington: The average one-way fare was reduced from $146 to $55 and after the first eight months of Southwest’s service on this route, passenger traffic increased from 19,000 to 92,000 passengers per quarter (this route went from being the 1063th busiest city pair in the nation to 248th).
Between Baltimore/Washington and Chicago Midway Airport: When Southwest began service on this route in September 1993, only 3,530 passengers per quarter paid an average one-way fare of $121. By the last quarter of 1997, more than 100,000 passengers per quarter were paying an average one-way fare of only $79 (this route went from being the 240th busiest city pair in the nation to 43rd).
Southwest’s unique brand of Customer Service also will be a departure for Philadelphia area air travelers. The carrier, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation’s (DOT) monthly Air Travel Consumer Report, has consistently received the fewest complaints per 100,000 passengers carried of all major U.S. airlines year over year since 1991. The DOT also reports Southwest has maintained the best cumulative baggage handling record and the best cumulative ontime performance of all major U.S. carriers that have been reporting statistics to the DOT since September 1987, which is when the DOT began tracking such performance statistics and publishing its monthly report.
“We have license plate studies from other airports we serve that tell us people will drive from two or more hours away to take advantage of Southwest’s low fares and high level of Customer Service,†Kelleher said. “Our unparalleled track record, financial strength, and consistent growth helps us make a positive difference in the communities we serve.â€
For more than 32 years, Southwest has been in the business of connecting people-whether they are business executives looking to “close the deal†or loved ones gathering for a special occasion. More than 65 million people each year board Southwest’s young fleet of Boeing 737s to fly across the state or across the country at fares so low sometimes it can actually cost more to drive!
In January 2001, Southwest introduced new aircraft with a fresh canyon blue paint scheme and cool, saddle tan leather interiors and seats. The entire fleet is expected to be converted to the new design and interiors by the end of 2005.
Southwest is now in its 32nd year of operation and has reported 30 consecutive years of profitability. Based in Dallas, Southwest operates a fleet of 385 Boeing 737s with an average age of 9.5 years--one of the youngest pure jet fleets in the domestic airline industry. Even in the aftermath of the tragic events of Sept. 11, 2001, Southwest did not reduce service nor furlough a single Employee.
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 11,284
- 1,427
Yes Bob, you can fly to those little "puddle duck" airports in places like Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Baltimore, Los Angeles, Seattle...PineyBob said:
And here's the important part about the 26% of the time that Southwest is cheaper - on the "business itineraries" - you know, the kind of trip that businessmen prefer. USAir could have made PHL VERY undesirable for SWA had they implemented value pricing. Instead, USAirways was the "leader" in implementing "use it or lose it" fares and the $100 change fee. I guess it means that those two decisions didn't rack up the revenues as much as they had hoped for. I did some playing around with fares last night. It'll cost you $638 to fly from PHL to ORD on US at the last minute, without a Saturday stay. That fare is non refundable and subject to the $100 revenue enhancing change fee. For less money, you could fly Southwest from coast to coast (on a nonstop, BTW) - on a fully refundable, fully changeable ticket. You want the same flexibility on USAirways to fly half that far? Then it's only $1,400. Now, instead of being viewed as a leader, they become just another "me too" airline. How will U compete? Most likely by giving away seats in order to "out southwest southwest", and still raping you when you have to go from PHL to CLT, or some other leg Southwest doesn't serve. USAirways had the chance, they didn't take it. Now, it may be too late.
Singleflyer
Senior
- Mar 27, 2003
- 466
- 6
I agree with Pinebob, too much doom and gloom before one plane even lands.
This hopefully will be a wake up call for management to make changes, bring back the service, and more logical fares. That will keep customers. That being said, I doubt this will have any effect on my travel. LUV, just does not work for me on the east coast. I ocassionaly fly them in other parts of the country but not on the east. They just don't go where I need to go, and I fly out of MHT, a LUV city.
Also this might help US get better rates at PIT. Maybe PIT is really not good for any airline, if it was, why didn't LUV go there? Maybe US can turn that to there advantage. The decision not to open there only proves that PHL has much more O&D traffic than PHL, thus better for any airline expansion. Even though PIT has less delays, and a more user freindly treminal.
This hopefully will be a wake up call for management to make changes, bring back the service, and more logical fares. That will keep customers. That being said, I doubt this will have any effect on my travel. LUV, just does not work for me on the east coast. I ocassionaly fly them in other parts of the country but not on the east. They just don't go where I need to go, and I fly out of MHT, a LUV city.
Also this might help US get better rates at PIT. Maybe PIT is really not good for any airline, if it was, why didn't LUV go there? Maybe US can turn that to there advantage. The decision not to open there only proves that PHL has much more O&D traffic than PHL, thus better for any airline expansion. Even though PIT has less delays, and a more user freindly treminal.
Simply stated, what this does is drive a stake through the heart of the company's core strategy to drive yields by exploiting the enormous O&D opportunities that come with dominance in one of the nation's 5 largest markets. As a sidebar, it exposes the risk the company took by migrating customers to RJ's on routes to large cities, and hanging on to higher than average fares for traffic originating at PHL (a lesson apparently not learned in upstate NY with jetBlue). Southwest can't outboard them, but it can starve them to death. As a collateral benefit, an eventual USAirways failure opens up numerous other opportunities throughuout the east coast. At the same time, they blunt expansion by jetBlue, and particularly AirTran, which has become quite frisky in that area. It seems the resurgence in LCC activity has resonated within their own community. On the other hand, WN is simply going where opportunities have been created, in what is yet another example of a company making decisions in a vacuum (US), and deciding that competitors won't deviate from historical practices.
stoopidute442
Advanced
N513,N513AU said:Two things....
1. US Airways is screwed
2. Southwest will certainly experience the love of the city of brotherly shove. Rude passengers and massive air traffic delays. Drop of rain or rumble of thunder anywhere in PA and 2-4 hour ground stops quickly come upon PHL. As for the PHL crowd....its the original home of urbanized, northern white trash. The same crappy city that was featured in Springsteen videos and Rocky, is well, the same same crappy, filthy, rude city. Yo, fogetta about it.
One by one the nails get hammered into the coffin for US Airways. I'm willing to bet that Siegel uses this as an opportunity to beg for more from you.
You are correct. Phl is full of nothing but a bunch of cut-thorat, white trash, fat cheese steak eating animals. AND EVERY LAST ONE OF US LOVES IT. I can see it now...the first Baby Crap 737 taxing down the runway and most of U's PHL ground crew giving the piolts and $39 one way fare passengers the finger and possibly mooning them as well. When the plane gets down to gate E10 25 minutes later there will probably be a usairways truck parked on their lead in line with 5 or 10 U employes upstairs having lunch. I've worked in PHL for a little over 5 years now and i wouldnt have it any other way....its funny to see when the displaced CLT and PIT employes come in and just look around and say "What the f is goin on here?" And all us animals just look at the hick laugh and say "Welcome to Philly."
stoopidute442 said:"I can see it now...the first Baby Crap 737 taxing down the runway and most of U's PHL ground crew giving the piolts and $39 one way fare passengers the finger and possibly mooning them as well. When the plane gets down to gate E10 25 minutes later there will probably be a usairways truck parked on their lead in line with 5 or 10 U employes upstairs having lunch."
Professionals at their best, eh
