Latest Iam Leter Of Agreement

[LavMan]

Ata, according to amfa they have not reached the 50% plateau yet, go check your sources, cards are dropping off everyday.

And if you think I am throwing stones, all I am doing is the same as you and your amfa buddies, it is ok for them to post false information and I am the bad guy when you are proven wrong?

If that is the way you think then there is not point in having a conversation.

Because people are pissed off and don't realize what is happening in the industry is not the IAM's fault, but they cant get past thinking with their emotions rather then using logic.

The IAM did not go knocking on CCY's door, look around the industry, amfa only represented one major carrier until recently, and that was NWA, the healthiest of all the airlines, but they have lost 4,500 mechanics since amfa took over and amfa has a 38% farmout rate which NWA is farming out 45%, amfa has a no layoff clause in NWA contract that is one member is on layoff they cant farmout work, then why are there 4,500 less mechanics at NWA now?

Why should I support a union that feels mechanics are gods and the "and relateds" are scum? Why did the mechanics get a higher % raise and the cleaners less at NWA? Why did amfa not get a 85 point plan?

So tell me how is amfa any better?

 

[ClueByFour]

Why should I support a union that feels mechanics are gods and the "and relateds" are scum? Why did the mechanics get a higher % raise and the cleaners less at NWA? Why did amfa not get a 85 point plan?

This is going to sound kind of harsh, but as a "related" you should probably not support the AMFA drive.

On the other hand, it's clear why the actual machinic would. The cold, hard fact of the matter is that "related" does not require any sort of license, and I'm unaware of anyone without an A&P who has to sign off on work that they can be held legally responsible for if people die.

If you want a cleaner's union, get one. However, as long as various groups continue to ride the back of the mechanics, you will get things like AMFA. And quite rightly so, IMHO.

 

[E-TRONS]

Hey DELLDUDE, Sorry to keep you waiting but my internet was inop for the past 48hrs.

You ask me what I am smoking? After reading your reply I have to wonder just what sort of individual you must be? Most certainly an IAM KNOW IT ALL.......NOT!!

You cannot even handle speculative info that doesn't play in tune with your interpretation......You sir are lacking intellect.

You are SO SURE of the interpretation..."Just ask BIG FAT LIAR BILL at 1976." That is your first problem. If anyone speaks with a forked-tongue you will find him there. Masters of spin and C-Y-A alright.

So we will just have to wait and see what comes about. But in the mean while I want you to consider the following....

Why would an LOA of this nature be necessary UNLESS PERSONNEL MOVEMENTS THROUGHOUT THE SYSTEM WERE FORTHCOMING??? Would not the stability clause interfere with such movement???

Yeah-yeah, I know........Bill Freiberger said so....Blah-blah-blahhhh.

Like I said earlier Delldude....GET SOME SEASONING

 

[delldude]

Why would an LOA of this nature be necessary UNLESS PERSONNEL MOVEMENTS THROUGHOUT THE SYSTEM WERE FORTHCOMING??? Would not the stability clause interfere with such movement???

stability periods only prevent YOU from leaving an area...if the company has movement planned.....stability period isn't really needed then.....is it?
down 48 hours...who your provider?

 

[delldude]

hey tron...then what you're telling me is they must be moving the 'c' chks out of charlotte,isn't that where most of the mech's are locked in for stability?

 

[ata36bg]

LavMan,
With regards to how many cards have been collected or how many are “dropping off everyday†please keep your head in the sand and maybe this nightmare for the IAM will go away.

I never said you were throwing stones, I said your quote about it was starting to sound childish.

You didn’t answer any of my questions; you just repeated the same rhetoric about NW. By the way, when you say something like “why did amfa not get a 85 point plan†ask yourself if they had it with the IAM there. Stating the losses at NW does not answer my question about the reaction at the District and International levels with regards to the losses the IAM has sustained in the past few years. If you do not know, please just say so.

With regards to what’s happening in the industry, people left the IAM at Northwest during one of the greatest periods of positive revenue flow in the history of the airline business. Why do you say that this was not the IAM’s fault? Why are you even looking for blame outside of the IAM? If the IAM was doing a good job there, or at United, the IAM wouldn’t even have to worry about US Airways.

I do agree with your feelings with regards to the relationship between the cleaners and the mechanics. You may not believe this but I am ashamed of how some mechanics treat your work group. It is similar to the way we are looked upon by pilots and flight attendants. There is not much I can do to try and rectify this situation except that when I hear derogatory remarks directed at a hard working utility person I try to squelch it. Not all of us think we are gods.

I don’t think I can sum up my reasons for supporting AMFA on this board. They are too personal and involve other people and I do not feel it is appropriate for this venue. You and I would have to sit down and talk about it. All I can say on this board is that it will be a positive change in attitude towards our profession and everything that entails. You can call this elitist if you want, that’s fine with me. I would disagree with you though. I look forward to open negotiations and open dialogue between the union and the membership. If you feel that the IAM has done a good job at this then we will have to just disagree and move on. If you really want to know the details you’ll have to talk one on one with me.

I asked you twice before why you support the IAM. I would really like to hear a rational explanation from you. Not just what you feel AMFA has done wrong, but rather what has the IAM done so right? I am not asking this question to be confrontational. You seem to be very passionate about the subject and I really think it would be interesting to hear your perspective. But what I hear is how bad AMFA is, not how good the IAM is. I realize my answer to your question was vague so I cannot expect anymore from you. Give it a try if you want, if not that’s fine.

 

[LavMan]

I support the IAM because they have always supported me, in my early days I was a troublemaker and had a manager who had it out for me, they have always been their for all classifications and dont believe in elitism as AMFA does.

And in regards to AMFA and open negotiations, they are not telling you the whole truth, observers cant be there when sensative financial or corporate data is discussed because of SEC rules.

I believe myself that a mechanic is skilled labor, but I can't support a union that looks down on the "and relateds", it would be throwing money away.

I was at one of the informational meetings and when they were speaking it was mechanics this mechanics that and the rest of the classifications are bringing us down.

In reality that is further from the truth, what causes a mechanics wage to be stangant is MROs and their pay level.

We can agree to disagree, but in regards to the airbus farmout, it is not an IAM vs AMFA issue it is a worker issue, and we all need to put aside for our differences for the time being to get thru this battle that Dave is gonna force us into.

 

[LavMan]

Clue, you really need to inform yourself, you do not have to be a certificate holder for the FAA to take civil or criminal actions against you.

 

[ClueByFour]

Clue, you really need to inform yourself, you do not have to be a certificate holder for the FAA to take civil or criminal actions against you.

Fine. Educate me. Exactly how many cleaners or guys dumping lavs have ever been fined by the FAA? How many people have died as a result of erros on the part of cleaners? What training or certification are necessary for non-mechanic classification?

I don't think you want to do down this road.

 

[cat 111]

Lav, You bring up a good point about amfa being for the mechanics. Well, that is why we want the iam kicked out. They have never given a rats ass about the mechanics. The iam's only concern is how many dues they can collect. Why hasn't the iam been fighting for the airbus cks until now? It's not because the first "S" ck comes due in October but they got scared of amfa.

 

[E-TRONS]

Hey DELLDUDE, Carolina Road Runner------it was a regional problem.

To answer your question, YES. Even the C-Checks could be gone from CLT if Dave gets his way.

Let's look at what transpired at UAL during their re-org process.

The IAM WILLINGLY NEGOTIATED THE CLOSURE OF THE IMC AND OAK BASES by agreeing to 100% FARMOUT of all Heavy Maintenance plus 20% of any remaining work.

Not only did this cost THOUSANDS of UAL jobs but also set a PRECEDENT IN THE INDUSTRY.....one that DAVE would love to acheive at U-S Airways with the help of DAVE BRONNER in Alabama pulling for this scenario exactly. Thus the Airbus Farmout issue.

BTW, If I remember correctly the Airbus is eventually to become the ONLY FLEET TYPE OPERATED at U-S Airways....so when all the Boeings are history then SO ARE OUR JOBS. See where this is going??

Furthermore (LAVMAN), the IAM also allowed MASSIVE FARMOUT of UAL UTILITY PERSONNEL at SFO, LAX and DEN. I believe the seniority cutoff as 1990 and anyone above that date was FARMED OUT!! Why don't you ask cock-ROACH about this?? Why wouldn't he tell you the truth.....when he didn't DARE SHOW HIS FACE on the hangar floor in CLT?? Did he even leave the safety of the local lodge building?? That's some GVP alright......LOSER!! And yet many IAM faithful remain??

Just wait and see what goes down.....and I promise you that you have seen nothing as of yet. And you can say anything you want about my take on things but in the very near future we will see just how far off I was.

E-TRONS OUT......

 

[scot]

Before this spirals out of control, please refrain from the name calling and "clueless" remarks. Thanks.

 

[LavMan]

E-trons, the membership at UAL ratified that contract by over 70% so blame the members for approving it.

And you are comparing apples to oranges, stick to the issue here at US Airways, the union has not given away the right of aircraft overhaul, we did lose utility at numerous stations, but once again, the mechanics control the vote by sheer numbers. Like I said I dont care what happens or happened at UAL, this is US Airways and we need to protect the work we have here.


So tell me what heavy maintenance did the IAM negotiate away here?

 

[diogenes]

Fine. Educate me. Exactly how many cleaners or guys dumping lavs have ever been fined by the FAA? How many people have died as a result of erros on the part of cleaners? What training or certification are necessary for non-mechanic classification?

I don't think you want to do down this road.

Hello, Clue,

I don't mind going down this road.

First, my bona fides - I am a ramp rat in a class II station.

Second, I think mechs should make serious $$. You have serious responsibilities, and for the most part, keep crappy hours. I have no problem with mechs making more $$ than me. If I wanted to be a mech, I should have gone to school. I won't take a back seat for the $$ I do earn, though. In my little corner of the world, in addition to the same crappy hours and cargo loading, we push back the a/c, airstart and deice them, and train our own newbies in pushback procedures. We maintain FAA required weight-and-balance quals, and I can't tell you the times we straighten out Central Load Planning. We handle our own cargo, so we have to be spiffed up on Dept. of Agriculture regs (shipment of animals and plants), Customs regs (international shipments) and DOT regs (HAZMAT). Agents do and have been fined for violations. Additionally, we clean and perform the security checks on the RON's. And when push came to shove, we have put out an a/c brake fire with the Ansul. Now, we're not worth a mech's pay, but we're worth what we're making, and a damsite more than the $13 that I'm sure is soon to come. Pre-concessions, WN rampers made $3 an hour more than us.

What does my being in the IAM have to do with your contract (personally, I voted Steel in 95, BECAUSE the IAM was the mech union at U, and I knew we'd be the stepchild)? We are under separate contracts, administered by different districts. If fleet service fell off the face of the earth tomorrow, NOTHING in the mech and related world would change, other than the loss of a whipping boy. Moreover, fleet did not come into the IAM until 1999, with a contract that formalized the company policy guide. How did that cost mech and related? At the Local level, all I could tell was fleet dues monies sent the powers that were, a mechanic each and every one, to conventions. They fought like hell to keep fleet out of even useful things, like training at Placid Harbor. Another angle on the 99 contract, who was holding mechs back prior to that? Was everything hunky-dory before the arrival of the great unwashed?

ALPA espouses the same philosophy as AMFA - pilots, or in the case of AMFA, mechanics, only please. I didn't see ALPA fare any better than IAM, CWA or AFA during BK. To my thinking, just as investment diversity is a wise strategy, the IAM's diversification is a wise strategy. If the airline sector hits a rough patch, the tiremakers and woodworkers stabilize the union. If the tiremakers have an extended strike, transport dues keep the union going. The real, live example of this is AFA. They are busting a gut to do right by their members, but are going broke. They have no tiremakers or woodworkers to fall back on.

This is NOT to minimize the issues with IAM. You know I have issues with the top-down, double-top-secret mentality, as well as the Politburo pace of change with district officials. Certainly a fight worth fighting.

I know the IAM reads this board - now would be a good time to get your house in order, because right, wrong, or indifferent, if U succeeds in the AB farmout, the IAM is done.

And CX4, if we strike over the farmout, this old ramp rat will be on the picket line with you. I'll try not to step on your coat tail

 

[LavMan]

Dio, great post and you have my utmost respect.