Larry Pike of 567 FIRED ?

[Anomaly]

A Larry Pike non issue, a perfect example of the blind leading the unseeing, with the hand of Seham in his pocket, what a performance Larry. This stupidity reminds me of the famous Atlanta 10 of many years ago, who had an issue and used the safety veil to try for political points, which got those fools really disciplined. Larry on the other hand is a faux complainer. If you had an issue, call the Feds, they got a hot line. Or go to their office on Trinity Blvd, just down the street from AA and APA. Captain Madar out of SSE was a babe in the woods in this scenario. Pike knew this going in, there wasn't any peril awaiting him. To bad it was captured on tape, he could be up for an EMMY AWARD, in the who is the biggest fool category!!!!

Well put. I think as an outsider looking at this silly thread, this seems to be one of the best summations of the situation.

You all have fun with this.

 

[Bob Owens]

Missed the point again Bob. Seham gets rich and doesn't help people. All the TWU attorneys have represented members many times and gotten their jobs back for far less money. Levine and Roth did a much better job than Seham, How did AMFA fair in BK? They lost all their jobs. Wow! Big win for the AMFA membership! Great advice. Did he waive his fee for that malpractice? $500K to take what? 12 cases a year forward? Wow! How much did he charge the Local to represent Pike? How much did Seham charge the two that got their jobs back?

Apparently he does. One of my coworkers at JFK got his job back after the Local had told him that he didnt have a chance of getting it back, we were with 501 back then. Dont know if he charged him anything other than what came out of the settlement, he was satisfied with the service Sehamm provided. Still works at AA.
Didnt know Roth was a lawyer, they did a great job at bringing us to the lowest point in the industry, So low that we had over 1200 people agree to leave already.

They all lost their jobs? Who are you talking about? Are you talking about how AMFA shrank again? Spinning again, If 5000 peopele voted to go to another union the only people that lose their jobs are people like you, you would have to go back and actually live under the terms you helped put in place.

I went to school to be a mechanic as well and you are getting paid like one.

Our pay is closer to that of a top paid baggage handler than it is to a top paid mechanic.

You would have been one of the highest paid but remember you recommended a no vote.

I've repeatedly proven that "we" would not be one of the highest paid. But in true FOX News fashion you keep repeating a lie, from behind a lie. No sense in doing it again.

 

[Bob Owens]

I love this theory that has been told time and again to us "B" scalers by the "A" scalers and international who threw us under the bus. The fact is that AA was loaded with WW2 vets and were faced with the coming retirement of these guys. They would have had to hire replacements but had an idea. Lets throw some money at the "A" scalers and offer them a lump sum retirement option and the pay back is we'll hire the guys we'll need anyway at half the pay. But this is how the TWU justified and still justifies this travesty. I was a student at Spartan School of Aeronautics in 81 and we had a tour of the Tulsa Maint. base. I can tell you we saw nobody that didn't have a head full of gray hair. The guy taking us around on the tour who had retired from there even commented that these guys were all going to be gone soon. So we still have revisionist history coming from our international.

Exactly, and its the same way now. A lot a gray hair. AA has reportedly been going around to Aviation schools telling kids that there will be planty of jobs waiting for them at AA when they get out. The only thing is that they wont be able to get too many for what they are offering anymore. In the 80s AA was losing guys faster than they could hire them. Even with Flex Starting rates. We were forced OT every day of the week. We would make them force us even if we wanted to stay so we could go home on our friday and not work. They were offering us $100 for every resume we got them. As fast as they could hire the guys quit and went somewhere else, and in real terms the pay was 50% higher, we had 10 holidays at double time and a half, instead of what really comes out to the 2.5 days of pay we get for working 10 Holidays now, we had 10 sick days instead of 5, we had fully paid medical, instead of having to pay up to $14000 of our medical expenses, we had the same amount of vacation for at least the first 5 years. The difference in pay wasnt as much yet guys were leaving. I sadly took the advice of an Old timer who told me that in the end the majors all level off around the same, that they leapfrog off each other in order to keep up with inflation and its not good to bounce around because seniority means everything as far as your quality of life in this industry. If not for EAL and Pan Am they would not have been able to staff the Northeast and Miami. Now the only place AA can get mechanics is from Eagle.

 

[Bob Owens]

Well put. I think as an outsider looking at this silly thread, this seems to be one of the best summations of the situation.

You all have fun with this.

So silly yet you felt compeled to follow it and comment on it. If you leave I dont think your input will be missed.

 

[TWU informer]

Well put. I think as an outsider looking at this silly thread, this seems to be one of the best summations of the situation.

You all have fun with this.

Spoken like a true industrial union stooge.

Anytime the membership organizes and stands together, regardless of what brings them to unification, you are your type are quick to discredit the members for taking such action. This is only because you and those like you believe YOU are the union, and us low life members are to get direction and instructions only from those appointed to lead. Real UNIONISM be damned, you guys will protect your appointed positions at all cost.

 

[Bob Owens]

For some reason Observer has a problem with Sehamm. He keeps saying that he is a shyster etc, well he is a lawyer, but from what I've heard from the guy I know who used his services the guy isnt an ambulance chaser. They went to him. They voluntarily hired him, unlike the appointed leaders that we are forced to pay as they bring us to the bottom ofthe industry. Come on now, who are the shysters? Guys who misrepresent who they are while hiding behinsd an alias or a lawyer that members hire to represent and often prevail? In this industry we get our jobs on our own, we get the training, the experience, and interview for the job, we join unions in order to maximize our pay and benefits not to maximize the dues flow for the Union. Overspeed keeps saying how AMFA lost 15000 guys their jobs, well they did lose 15000 members, and perhaps some AMFA officials lost their AMFA jobs and had to go back to the floor (maybe thats what OS is really concerned about), but many of the AMFA members he talks about chose to leave and go to other unions, the only ones that went Non-union were former NWA that went to Delta or sought employment elsewhere. All those who stayed and most of those who left continue to work under conditions that are better than ours. Overspeed claims that he is willing to work for $20k less than the going rate because it preserves Jobs at AA. How magnanimous, and what a crock. I doubt that their are any people out there who would not be willing to work under the WN contract, even OS. One fact that OS leaves out is that WN never laid off any of their Unionized employees, they kept their word to those they hired, whether it was under the IBT, TWU or AMFA. By 2017 more than likely half the mechabnic that were with AA when they filed will be gone and a sizable portion of the seniority list will be new hires who come to AA for the experience before they move on, so what did we really save? OS claims that we would have lost more people if we had rejected the companys offer, but he cant prove it. Where would AA have sent the work? Could they have done it cheaper than what they were getting it done for already? Sure the widebodies are going away but the narrowbody fleet is where most of the costs are because they are a much larger portion of the fleet, and they had no place to send it. So we gave concessions to "save jobs" that really were not at immediate risk anyway and agreed to language that would enable the company to eliminate those jobs if and when they were ready. We all know OS is a liar. His alias is self descriptive and pretty much the most honest thing he puts out there, he is a spinner, He is ok with this deal because he obvioisly has a different deal.

 

[1AA]

Bob let me put it in a nut shell. OS is threatened by AMFA and the CRAFT it represents.
It puts the members interest FIRST. Seham is a well known experienced attorney. I personally met him many years ago when he just started out working for his father Marty Seham. I saw him in action defending one of our Members years back. The TWU did not want to spend the money on this guy defending him in arbitration. Seham stepped up to the plate and this guy returned to work with FULL back pay, VC and loss overtime compensation. His record was wiped clean because Seham proved the company was 100% wrong. Yet the TWU felt it was not worth fighting for. That is what threatens OS. The more the union spends on the membership the less they have for themselves to spend on the annual drunk-fest parties and whatever other benefits they reward themselves.

Folks it is time to move on and get AMFA on the floor. Sign a card and lets move on with it.

Remember the old saying a while back....

"Why ride the bus with the TWU when you can Fly with AMFA"
Lately it has been the back of the bus for the AMT's.

And for you IBT supporters........
"Why hitch a ride with the truck drivers when you can Fly with AMFA"

 

[swamt]

The next step will be for the TWU to remove Pike from Office, because he used AMFA's attorney.

I guess I was wrong. I guess you can be removed from office with the TWU. But only when the TWU wants you removed not the membership.
Notice how the clan supporting the industrial unions are all calling it a "silly little issue". When all the mechanics show up in very large numbers and walk in support of another member facing company diciplin or some kind of a hearing with the company. This is how the industrial unions look at representing their members, just a "silly little issue" while Seham will put every ounce of energy and sources to work for the absolute best outcome for the member being represented. That's one big difference in the representation between these 3 unions we are discussing on this board. Members from other unions hiring another unions attorney's once again for representation. Volumes...

 

[Observer]

Bob, my problem is not with Seham per se, although he has been around the block at AA many times over the years, and with some of our competitors who no longer are operating, with varying results. My problem is the charade of this whole episode, it was a charade plain and simple, and professionals (as mentioned so many times here over the past may years as it seems) and union leaders (Pike is an elected union leader) should not participate in charades that involve the membership. Pike DEMEANED himself, DEMEANED the MEMBERSHIP, and DEMEANED us as PROFESSIONALS. Pike knew BEFORE going into the meeting with Madar that there wasn't any peril involved. Safety is our business as PROFESSIONAL AMTs isn't it. If one raises a safety concern, as Pike did, he has a duty to speak to our employer about the safety concern, and the FAA, just not the media for a little face time and posturing. I have been here over 40 years, been to many 29fs in my career. The safety discussion with Pike was not ever going to be a 29f, as the absence of any Company labor rep was quite evident. Pike knew all of this yet he continued using the membership for just what? When the Company intends to discipline someone, HR reps are usually involved, and sometimes Security due to the severity of the infraction. Neither was in attendance. The Company was not intimidated, they did not cringe in fear of what took place. We all know AFW is closing, except for TAESL. So a charade for political and organizational purposes was used once again. I also heard that during this time, reps from Rolls Royce were at TAESL looking at the facility for more engine work, wonder what impression they had looking out the window at a non event.

 

[Anomaly]

So silly yet you felt compeled to follow it and comment on it. If you leave I dont think your input will be missed.

Of course it will Bob. Obviously by you most of all.

 

[TWU informer]

Bob, my problem is not with Seham per se, although he has been around the block at AA many times over the years, and with some of our competitors who no longer are operating, with varying results. My problem is the charade of this whole episode, it was a charade plain and simple, and professionals (as mentioned so many times here over the past may years as it seems) and union leaders (Pike is an elected union leader) should not participate in charades that involve the membership. Pike DEMEANED himself, DEMEANED the MEMBERSHIP, and DEMEANED us as PROFESSIONALS. Pike knew BEFORE going into the meeting with Madar that there wasn't any peril involved. Safety is our business as PROFESSIONAL AMTs isn't it. If one raises a safety concern, as Pike did, he has a duty to speak to our employer about the safety concern, and the FAA, just not the media for a little face time and posturing. I have been here over 40 years, been to many 29fs in my career. The safety discussion with Pike was not ever going to be a 29f, as the absence of any Company labor rep was quite evident. Pike knew all of this yet he continued using the membership for just what? When the Company intends to discipline someone, HR reps are usually involved, and sometimes Security due to the severity of the infraction. Neither was in attendance. The Company was not intimidated, they did not cringe in fear of what took place. We all know AFW is closing, except for TAESL. So a charade for political and organizational purposes was used once again. I also heard that during this time, reps from Rolls Royce were at TAESL looking at the facility for more engine work, wonder what impression they had looking out the window at a non event.

Yeah God forbid that the members show some unity. That could really piss off your corporate friends and relatives.

At what point in your mind is it ok for the members to demonstrate or show unity for or against some event?

If you would care more about the members and less about politics and fear of upsetting the greedy rich, there might not be card drives and divisions within your union.

When you lift your shirt, what shade of yellow is exposed on your belly?

 

[Bob Owens]

Actually it was a typo, I meant Overspeed but apparently its one and the same.

 

[Overspeed]

Bob let me put it in a nut shell. OS is threatened by AMFA and the CRAFT it represents.
It puts the members interest FIRST. Seham is a well known experienced attorney. I personally met him many years ago when he just started out working for his father Marty Seham. I saw him in action defending one of our Members years back. The TWU did not want to spend the money on this guy defending him in arbitration. Seham stepped up to the plate and this guy returned to work with FULL back pay, VC and loss overtime compensation. His record was wiped clean because Seham proved the company was 100% wrong. Yet the TWU felt it was not worth fighting for. That is what threatens OS. The more the union spends on the membership the less they have for themselves to spend on the annual drunk-fest parties and whatever other benefits they reward themselves.

Folks it is time to move on and get AMFA on the floor. Sign a card and lets move on with it.

Remember the old saying a while back....

"Why ride the bus with the TWU when you can Fly with AMFA"
Lately it has been the back of the bus for the AMT's.

And for you IBT supporters........
"Why hitch a ride with the truck drivers when you can Fly with AMFA"

Seham's a dirt bag. The DPA started asking questions about him and they found out that he has a history of screwing people over. Pike and Seham, bird's of a feather?

For a very long time we had been warned about problems with Seham by many others including the Teamsters (their opinions of Seham are not printable), SWAPA (the Southwest pilots' union, who terminated their relationship with Seham just this year for "incompetence and billing irregularities"), APA (the Allied Pilots Association, who fired Seham for a variety of issues including pro-management business relationships), to numerous respected individual labor and RLA attorneys who are aware of Seham's poor reputation among labor advocates. These concerns were relayed to us over time and we took each of them into consideration along the way by doing our best to investigate them and assigning some level of veracity to each of the claims. Each of these concerns with Seham were addressed openly and proactively with him in an attempt to correct problem areas and to stay on track. The efforts to resolve them internally were not successful."​

 

[Overspeed]

For some reason Observer has a problem with Sehamm. He keeps saying that he is a shyster etc, well he is a lawyer, but from what I've heard from the guy I know who used his services the guy isnt an ambulance chaser. They went to him. They voluntarily hired him, unlike the appointed leaders that we are forced to pay as they bring us to the bottom ofthe industry. Come on now, who are the shysters? Guys who misrepresent who they are while hiding behinsd an alias or a lawyer that members hire to represent and often prevail? In this industry we get our jobs on our own, we get the training, the experience, and interview for the job, we join unions in order to maximize our pay and benefits not to maximize the dues flow for the Union. Overspeed keeps saying how AMFA lost 15000 guys their jobs, well they did lose 15000 members, and perhaps some AMFA officials lost their AMFA jobs and had to go back to the floor (maybe thats what OS is really concerned about), but many of the AMFA members he talks about chose to leave and go to other unions, the only ones that went Non-union were former NWA that went to Delta or sought employment elsewhere. All those who stayed and most of those who left continue to work under conditions that are better than ours. Overspeed claims that he is willing to work for $20k less than the going rate because it preserves Jobs at AA. How magnanimous, and what a crock. I doubt that their are any people out there who would not be willing to work under the WN contract, even OS. One fact that OS leaves out is that WN never laid off any of their Unionized employees, they kept their word to those they hired, whether it was under the IBT, TWU or AMFA. By 2017 more than likely half the mechabnic that were with AA when they filed will be gone and a sizable portion of the seniority list will be new hires who come to AA for the experience before they move on, so what did we really save? OS claims that we would have lost more people if we had rejected the companys offer, but he cant prove it. Where would AA have sent the work? Could they have done it cheaper than what they were getting it done for already? Sure the widebodies are going away but the narrowbody fleet is where most of the costs are because they are a much larger portion of the fleet, and they had no place to send it. So we gave concessions to "save jobs" that really were not at immediate risk anyway and agreed to language that would enable the company to eliminate those jobs if and when they were ready. We all know OS is a liar. His alias is self descriptive and pretty much the most honest thing he puts out there, he is a spinner, He is ok with this deal because he obvioisly has a different deal.

Your hero is a real winner Bob! The DPA ditched him because he is crook! Can't wait until he sends the bill to Pike. Did the members authorize that expense?

"Finally, concerns over Mr. Seham's billing practices were coming to light. Although, by his own admission, we had substantially reduced our use of his firm during the late spring and summer, Seham's bills were actually increasing. At this point we became aware of the overbilling problems the Southwest pilots had encountered with Seham. Scrutiny of the bills produced more questions than answers and we sought professional advice to protect the organization. Many firms specializing in auditing legal bills were contacted and interviewed. Preliminary reviews by auditors told us that the Seham bills were "un-auditable", "some of the most uninformative invoices ever seen", and "a significant deviation from the standard bills law firms submit". This preliminary indication that there may have been irregularities in Seham's billing practices with USAPA is a situation that the Board has a responsibility to look into. And so, faced with these allegations, I recommended that the Board authorize an audit of all of our legal bills, which is under way. Unfortunately, after eight weeks of asking the Seham firm for the information necessary to audit the bills, not a single shred of the requested information has been forthcoming. Zero."​

 

[swamt]

Your hero is a real winner Bob! The DPA ditched him because he is crook! Can't wait until he sends the bill to Pike. Did the members authorize that expense?

"Finally, concerns over Mr. Seham's billing practices were coming to light. Although, by his own admission, we had substantially reduced our use of his firm during the late spring and summer, Seham's bills were actually increasing. At this point we became aware of the overbilling problems the Southwest pilots had encountered with Seham. Scrutiny of the bills produced more questions than answers and we sought professional advice to protect the organization. Many firms specializing in auditing legal bills were contacted and interviewed. Preliminary reviews by auditors told us that the Seham bills were "un-auditable", "some of the most uninformative invoices ever seen", and "a significant deviation from the standard bills law firms submit". This preliminary indication that there may have been irregularities in Seham's billing practices with USAPA is a situation that the Board has a responsibility to look into. And so, faced with these allegations, I recommended that the Board authorize an audit of all of our legal bills, which is under way. Unfortunately, after eight weeks of asking the Seham firm for the information necessary to audit the bills, not a single shred of the requested information has been forthcoming. Zero."​

Is this all you got? Really?? Speaks Volumes!!!