Kangaroo Court

[Bob Owens]

Why does delle hide behind an Alias? I believe I read a news article about this issue! Something to do with his first name?

Is this guy credible?

In an earlier post he called out for all those who signed cards to be identified. He is a typical Sonny Hall/Little coward who hides behind an alias so this way he cant be held accountable for his statements.

CIO you are a pathetic excuse for a unionist.

 

[RV4]

Welcome back Bob Owens,

I thought either the TWU Dictators had you in a detention camp, or that 25 Foot Rat outside TWU Headquarters injured you.

Glad to see you are OK!

 

[Bob Owens]

I need to clear up some of the misconceptions I se posted over and over again..

Sonny Hall is not that well liked in Local 100. At a recent Local 100 rally Sonny was pretty much "Booed" off the podium. The fact is that Bus Drivers and Subway workers have been much more supportive than the Presidents of the other line Locals at challenging Hall and supporting democratic reform. Videtich, McCormick and Peterson were never given the ultimatum that Chuck Schalk was, they all just happened to be on vacation the same time when the meeting took place. Videtich and McCormick were both at the last Convention and both were sent information regarding electronic balloting at the next convention. Have either of them brought this forward to their boards or members? The President and other top officers of Local 100 demonstrated in front of the Internationals offices for two days while the other line Local Presidents hid in their hotel room the first day and met with Hall the second day.


In order to weaken Local 100 Sonny ordered that one of the Bus Divisions be given the right to vote for separation, it was believed that this division was more loyal to Sonny than the Subway workers. The separation was rejected by the members who chose to stay with Rojer and Local 100. It was a stunning defeat for Hall.

My removal from office has more to do with my calls for Democracy and accountability at the conventions, accountability from the International, the reform of Unionism within the Airline industry and my links to Local 100 than anything that I wrote that might put the concept of AMFA in a favorable light.

The fact remains that I still have not heard one good reason why all aircraft mechanics, or any other airline worker should not strive to be in one union, across corporate lines. Sonny Hall even agreed that it was a good idea. Clearly, over the last TWENTY years the policies of the TWU, IAM and IBT have not stemmed the losses suffered by workers in this industry. These losses were suffered during a period of continued overall expansion and not a decline as in other industries, this makes our situation remarkable. Increased productivity and growth leading to declining wages and living standards.

Despite these lossses these organizations stubbornly cling to a structure that may have been acceptable under regulation but has proven to be a complete disaster for airline workers under deregulation. The debate over how change should take place will remain, the fact that change must take place should be considered an absolute. The only ones that I could imagine disputing that change is neccessary are those who live a comfortable life on the International teat.

Sonny also has problems in Philly, with Local 234. Local 100 has around 38,000 members, Local 234 over 6000 members. This is causing Sonny to panic. The dispatchers have filed, but thats probably only one delegate- its ironic that Jim Littles group does not support him. If any big group leaves, such as the 16000 member AA M&R contract group (which voted for Hall- myself included) the balance of power would decidedly tip in Local 100s favor. If the Ramp workers at AA and the flight attendants at SWA -who have gone 18 months without a contract while working for the most profitable airline around, and who also supported democratic reforms at the last Convention- leave more than likely the entire Hall regime will be wiped off the letterhead. This also has many other International officers panicking. Sonny built up his regime by taking failed local officers (who could not get re-elected like Bobby Gless and Levere Deane) and those from small Locals such as Jim Little and Hubert Snead (who would have little chance of obtaining enough name recognition to get elected in a membership vote). This ensured that none of his staff could come from a powerful enough Local to resist his sell out policies. Sell out policies put in place by sell out appointees.

Sonny Hall has a long history of abusing his powers to silence political rivals. He is simply going back to what comes naturally to him in a time of crises. His behavior mimics those of Stalin and Hitler.

 

[Bob Owens]

Some of Sonnys Purges.

Rojer Toussaint- A long time opponent of Hall from when Hall was President Toussaint was fired on a BS charge. He was later reinstated. It is widely believed that Hall had something to do with the termination.

Local 234- Hall usurped the bylaws of the Local and the Constitution to aid the President of the Local who supports Hall. Hall has weilded a heavy hand in the affairs of Local 234.

Local 501 - In the middle of a Local election the company fires most of the incumbant E-Board, some of whom ran in opposition to Sonny Hall at the last Convention. The International did not return calls or offer assistance to these elected officials. The International, according to those involved, ignored the fact that right smack in the middle of an election the company denied these officers access to the members, but later, when a problem arose on SJU, Jim Little and a couple of reps went to deal with the problem. According to reports several members had a problem with an elected officer and Little said that HE would remove that officer. Shouldnt the members remove Local officers? How come the members cant remove local officers, other than regular elections, but Jim Little, who is the APPOINTED ATD Director can?

Local 562- Hall removed President Schalk for refusing to sign and distribute a letter that in its form appears to be written by Schalk when in fact it was not. This ultimatum was a blatant attack upon the autonomy of the Local and was an attempt to change the President from an elected representative of the members, who brings their greivances and concerns forward to a mouthpeice of the International.
Hall also removed myself, the Treasurer because I spoke the truth and his minions were incapable of mounting valid counterpoints to critics of the Union.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Bob;
I'm a FSC, who(along with every other FSC) will be negatively affected in a big way, if AA's AMT's go AMFA.
I'm also the ONLY FSC on these boards who has consistantly supported the AMT's in their quest for a Mech's only union(although I do support the "related" segment, be included as well)

I honestly wish there was another way to solve this dillema, without leaving the AFL-CIO.

"BUT",
the situatiuon is so bad now, that if it takes AMFA to ultimately be the "straw that breaks Sonny Halls back", than LET IT BE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[Checking it Out]

Bob wrote,

The fact remains that I still have not heard one good reason why all aircraft mechanics, or any other airline worker should not strive to be in one union, across corporate lines. Sonny Hall even agreed that it was a good idea. Clearly, over the last TWENTY years the policies of the TWU, IAM and IBT have not stemmed the losses suffered by workers in this industry. These losses were suffered during a period of continued overall expansion and not a decline as in other industries, this makes our situation remarkable. Increased productivity and growth leading to declining wages and living standards.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Bob you can thank amfa for the lack of education in this department, If it was not for them negotiating the weak language in the Alaska and NW contract we would not be in this situation. If it was not for amfa believing in no International we would not be in this position. If it wasn'tt for amfa not believing in politics we would not be in this position!

Bob you are way off base with Sonney Hall, When he and the other person ran for the position, We as the members elected the Convention Delegates to represent us! The Delegates voted for the best person at the time! Simple as that! You supporting this Individual, shows you are willing to sacrafice the Majority for the Minority! Plain and Simple!!!! The committee will decide your fate not Sonny, But you already know this and you are insistent on twisting, lying and giving half-truths for your own personal agenda! I hate to tell you this! the Majority of the Presidents council and Members support this decission!

You are the one that is spending the time to tear down the International and everyone needs to understand it will be you and the other amfa wantabes that will be the downfall of our profession! If amfa would ever get in at AA they will have no credibility with the company, amfa has already proven they do not believe in the language of our Contract and virtually will be impossible for amfa to uphold!

 

[RV4]

Bob you can thank amfa for the lack of education in this department, If it was not for them negotiating the weak language in the Alaska and NW contract we would not be in this situation. If it was not for amfa believing in no International we would not be in this position. If it wasn'tt for amfa not believing in politics we would not be in this position!

Bob you are way off base with Sonney Hall, When he and the other person ran for the position, We as the members elected the Convention Delegates to represent us! The Delegates voted for the best person at the time! Simple as that! You supporting this Individual, shows you are willing to sacrafice the Majority for the Minority! Plain and Simple!!!! The committee will decide your fate not Sonny, But you already know this and you are insistent on twisting, lying and giving half-truths for your own personal agenda! I hate to tell you this! the Majority of the Presidents council and Members support this decission!

You are the one that is spending the time to tear down the International and everyone needs to understand it will be you and the other amfa wantabes that will be the downfall of our profession! If amfa would ever get in at AA they will have no credibility with the company, amfa has already proven they do not believe in the language of our Contract and virtually will be impossible for amfa to uphold!

Bob,

I heard the Power Outage up there in the Northeast was "AMFA's fault", it also appears the Space Shuttle Accident had something to with Southwest Mechanics voting in AMFA and ousting the Teamsters.

Stay Tuned and we will get notification from CIO and the other industrial union lapdogs, of other things for which AMFA can be blamed.

Satire of Course

Are you believing these postings blaming AMFA for all things though? :blink:

Believe it or not, it appears CIO thinks these things are ALL AMFA's fault here at AA:

17.5 % Base Rate Pay Reduction
Loss of 5 Paid Holidays
Loss of 5 Paid Vacation Days
Loss of 7 Paid Sick Days per Year
50% Pay Reduction on First Two Sick Days per Occurrence
Loss of 2.5 Times Pay on Worked Holidays
Loss of Skill/License Pay for RIF’d Mechanics
Loss of Longevity Pay
Loss of Shift Differential
Over 3500 TWU Members Lost Job Security Protection
Removal of “PILOT CAP†on Medical Premiums
Major Reduction in Medical and Dental Benefits
Undetermined Rises in Payroll Deduction for Medical/Dental Benefits
Elimination of Penalty Lunch
Modified Crew Chief Ratios that Demoted Crew Chiefs
Elimination of Weekend Premium Pay at TUL/AFW
Loss of Overtime Meal Allowance
Loss of 2X pay for 2nd Day Off Overtime
Reduction of Total Vacation Accrual
It must be AMFA's fault that Jim Little admits the TWU lost over 6,000 dues paying jobs, in addition to lengthy list of concession above:

Posted on Mon, Sep. 01, 2003

Unions hurt by airlines' budget woes
By Trebor Banstetter
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

It's a familiar situation in today's airline industry: Facing a substantial shortfall in cash, leaders are making tough decisions to cut budgets, services and even employees.

But in this case, it's not airline CEOs reeling from a financial hit. It's union leaders, who usually fight management efforts to cut budgets.

Heading into Labor Day, airline union leaders have hardly had time to contemplate the holiday's meaning. In recent months, they've cut back on services, reduced operating hours and even laid off staff. The union budgets have been squeezed because the airlines have cut jobs and reduced the salaries of dues-paying members.

The problem is particularly bad for the unions representing American Airlines pilots and flight attendants. Unlike other airline labor groups, which represent workers at many carriers, the Allied Pilots Association and the Association of Professional Flight Attendants represent only American Airlines employees.

"Given the circumstances, our members are expecting us to tighten our belt," said John Ward, president of the flight attendants union. "And that's what we're doing."

Traditionally, airline unions have been among the strongest groups in organized labor. They are well-funded, disciplined and known for tough negotiating tactics that have provided members with good pay and benefits.

But layoffs and pay cuts have slashed unions' revenue from member dues. At the same time, unions have spent heavily on lawyers, financial consultants and analysts as they negotiate concessions with management.

Consider:

. The Allied Pilots Association will collect about $11 million in dues for its fiscal 2004 budget, which began July 1. Last year, it collected $24 million.

. The Association of Professional Flight Attendants will take in $5 million less in dues this year than last after furloughs, leave and attrition, according to a report by its treasurer, Juan Johnson. The report didn't specify a percentage decline.

. Chapters of the Transport Workers Union, which represents American's mechanics and ground workers, have cut budgets as the union lost nearly 6,000 dues-paying members in furloughs. Also, some members are trying to oust the labor group and install another union, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association.

And even as revenue falls, demand for union services increases. Unions help furloughed employees, and they have had to work hard to implement the contracts approved in May.

Union leaders are also spending more time on employee grievances as airlines make work rules stricter and try to boost productivity.

"The companies are in penny-pinching mode," said James Magee of the Air Line Pilots Association, which represents pilots at American Eagle, the regional affiliate of American Airlines. "We're seeing a big jump in grievances related to days off, sick days and things along those lines."

The troubles aren't confined to the unions at American Airlines; labor groups at airlines nationwide report cash shortages because of industry cutbacks.

"We've seen a substantial drop" in revenue this year, said Don Skiados, a spokesman for the national office of the Air Line Pilots Association, which represents 66,000 pilots at 42 airlines, including bankrupt carriers United Airlines and US Airways. The union's $100 million budget is down about 15 percent from last year, he said.

Some airline labor experts say the financial squeeze, coupled with union members' approval of steep concessions, could weaken airline unions for years to come.

"This is a tough time for the airline unions, which traditionally are very strong," said Richard Gritta, who studies airline economics as a professor at the University of Portland in Oregon. "I think they're resigned to the fact that they're never going to get back to where they were a few years ago."

Services slashed

The Allied Pilots Association's troubles began before the economic downturn. In 1999, a judge ordered the union to pay $45.5 million in damages to American after an 11-day sickout. The union paid $20 million before American forgave the rest as part of the May concessions.

The payout depleted the union's reserve fund. Today, the union has $9.8 million in reserves; the union's bylaws require at least $13.5 million. The group's board waived the requirement three years ago.

After the concessions were approved, the union also cut dues from 1.5 percent of member wages to 1 percent. Dues are traditionally reduced after new contracts are approved, even when unions win pay raises.

Since then, the union office has laid off 10 employees and reduced travel and administrative expenses for board and committee meetings by nearly $8 million. The union has been relying more heavily on volunteers to run services that had been contracted out or performed by paid staff members.

The union is also considering mortgaging its headquarters. Union leaders estimate that they could raise $4.2 million in cash, which they would add to the reserve fund.

"The past few years have put a tremendous strain on finances," John Darrah, the union's president, told members in a June e-mail.

The flight attendants union is also feeling the strain, officials said.

"We must make very serious budget adjustments so that we can continue to provide our membership with the services they have come to expect," Johnson said in a report to members.

The union hasn't been affected by pay cuts because monthly dues are a flat amount, $41 per member, instead of a percentage of salary.

But dues revenue has still dropped because thousands of flight attendants have been furloughed or have taken voluntary leave, Ward said.

With a $5 million cut in annual revenue, the Association of Professional Flight Attendants has reduced some salaries for its national officers, shortened office hours at its headquarters and removed some features from its Internet site.

Ward said that the union hasn't reduced member services but that if the budget is cut again or if the union's board reduces dues, some resources may have to be eliminated.

"We're like any business," he said. "You can only spend what comes in."

The union is struggling to remain prepared for further turmoil in the industry, Johnson said. "In most cases, these are things the [union] has little or no control over but must be ready to cope with."

Battle to represent

The Transport Workers Union hasn't been affected quite as much as American's two other main labor groups. That's because the union has members at other airlines, including profitable low-fare carriers like Southwest Airlines.

Still, budgets are being reduced, particularly at local chapters serving carriers that have enacted concessions, said Jim Little, international vice president.

"We're certainly being impacted in terms of dues," he said.

Little said that he could not provide specific information on the budget but that the union has lost 6,000 dues-paying members because of cutbacks at American.

TWU officials also have a battle on another front, an attempt by some members to throw out the union and bring in a new labor group.

Organizers say 7,000 TWU members have signed cards supporting the effort to replace the union with the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association, which represents mechanics at United Airlines, Southwest Airlines and Northwest Airlines, among others.

Organizers say that when they have gotten 10,000 cards, representing about 60 percent of eligible members, they will ask the National Mediation Board for an election.

Union members critical of the TWU say that the leadership gave up too much in salaries and benefits during concession talks and that members should have been allowed to vote on the issue a second time after it was revealed that American's top executives were eligible for lucrative bonuses and pension perks.

"Your livelihood and future are too important to allow a small un-elected, decision- making group of national TWU officers to negotiate your contract without any accountability or democracy," O.V. Delle- Femine, AMFA's national director, said in a recent letter to American employees.

Little said many ground workers still don't understand that union officials had no choice but to accept concessions.

"The only option was bankruptcy," he said. "And there's no question that we would have done a lot worse in bankruptcy than we have under the new contracts."

The battle, however, means that "I'm spending a lot of my time now rehashing everything that went on in the spring," Little said.

Gritta, the economics professor, said the unions will deal with the fallout from recent events for years.

"The industry has changed forever, and the unions are being forced to change along with them," he said. "It's very frustrating for them, but that's the way things are going to be a for a long time."

Pilots cut back

The Allied Pilots Association, which represents American Airlines pilots, has cut its budget to cope with a $13 million drop in revenue this year. Some of the cuts:

Department Cut Pct. cut
Staffing $2.8 million 34 percent
Board meetings $700,000 39 percent
Base costs $200,000 22 percent
Committee costs $6.9 million 73 percent

SOURCE: Allied Pilots Association

 

[jake]

Bob (Curly),
I too would like to welcome you back to the board. It seems you have found some “new†extra time to post. Fortunately, you, like Dave have no audience here except for the few misguided souls who shiver in excitement at your every witty post, but it does give you a place to rant doesn’t it? I fear you have chosen the wrong career, you should’ve been a fiction writer. Besides Dave, who spends the majority of his time posting Webster’s dictionary, I thought RUM@AA was the biggest liar on the board, but I believe you should at least share the crown. So “King Curlyâ€, congratulations, but be careful because RUM might get a little jealous with having to share the crown with anyone besides Dave.

You say that McCormick, Vidatich and Peterson didn’t receive the same “ultimatum†as Schaulk. That is a lie, they were all presented with the same letter and even given an opportunity to write their own. Out of the three in attendance, Schaulk is the only one to ultimately decide NOT to sign. All the letters are available for everyones review on the ATD website. BY the way, just so our limited audience (limited in numbers, not intellectual capacity) can understand, this wasn’t the first President’s council meeting in which our “LINE†Presidents “just happened†not to show up. It had been a constant attempt, by them, NOT to have a “quorum†therefore NOT to have any discussions
regarding the 1 for 1 swap items. Now that’s what I call “representationâ€!


Your removal had everything to do with democracy, accountability, unionism and the concept which you do not understand, OATH of LOYALTY. You took an oath that, need I remind you, says you “WILL†support the constitution of the TWU and perform your duties faithfully. You, instead are trying your best to destroy the TWU! Even your AMFA buddy Dave admits that there is something wrong with your character for swearing to the oath and NOT fulfilling it. Dave and I don’t agree on very much but we do agree on that!

We all know, Bob, why Local 100 (all 25 of 38,000 of them) was there to protest. It’s clear that Mr. Toussaint wants Sonny’s position He’s already campaigned for it at one convention. What is funny though is that you parade their actions like they are great troopers of your cause when the only thing they want is YOU out of THEIR organization and vise versa. The maintenance folks are throwing a wrench in Toussaint’s plans for “stardom†and you guys would rid yourselves the “the bus shrineâ€. Kind of ironic isn’t it?

Additionally, all of the mechanics Unions across the country have been linked, that is until AMFA, it’s called the AFL-CIO. Do you think the one Union concept would provide us more? We would still have different memberships, contracts and the free will to “vote†or not, and that along with active participation is the biggest problem (AMFA has the same problem). Frankly, it’s the same concept that the AFL affiliated unions had realized years ago, only you AMFA boys have a problem with “craft and class†as defined by the NMB. If we were all in a common Union across the country, we would not have any more power. We would still have the same issues. People like you would always think someone else has it better. How do you think AMFA will handle contract negotiations if ever they represent say, mechanics and pilots at the same airline? What happens to your “pie chart†theory then? Who decides who gets the bigger piece? Who do you blame then? You boys with your AMFA and “new direction†are union wanna-bees that will always be disgruntled as long as you can blame someone else. You couldn’t care less about the people you represent as a whole as long as “you get yoursâ€. That is why you are willing to take the lay-offs instead of look out for your brother. Your buddies at UAL and NWA proved that. Do you think those10,000 people needed those jobs, I’m quite certain that they did. However, that didn’t keep Delle and the boys from negotiating the absolute worst farm out language in the history of Unions. And now NWA had even been so bold to admit they are going to even do more. Why do you think that is? It’s because AMFA can’t stop them. I know your argument, show me AA’s language, right? The fact is the language has been debated to death on these boards and you don’t see thousands losing their jobs because AA is farming out their work.

Now you can slander Sonny and all of the rest of the International guys, but that doesn’t make your lies the truth. The fact is that you are hacked off at the International Union because they did exactly what their constitution gave them the power to do. Your AMFA boys would’ve done the same thing. In fact they didn’t suspend and try, Delle actually removed an elected person from the negotiation team. She, in fact obtained a court document that allowed here back on the committee, imagine that, she went to court and beat AMFA! Dude, at least the TWU follows the constitution and you were given a trial. Who knows, maybe you’ll have the same fortitude that she did and prevail in court. Then again, probably not, you’d rather slander and persecute others instead of get made a fool of by another judge. We all know you can’t afford to lose in court again, right? Besides, if you lose in court it makes your claims look week and we can’t have that!

These are the facts. Bob (Curly) Owens, is a liar! He has his own agenda! He has NO character, (ask Dave). He took an oath, he chose not to uphold it! He was suspended pending a trial by the TWU! He is now hacked off that the TWU is auditing 562’s books! He will use any method available to him to advance his self-serving cause! HE WILL ALWAYS BLAME SOMEONE ELSE!! He is a very good FICTION writer!!

.
P.S.
Anyone can write a book, the question is, IS IT TRUE??!! Yours is not.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob you can thank amfa for the lack of education in this department, If it was not for them negotiating the weak language in the Alaska and NW contract we would not be in this situation. If it was not for amfa believing in no International we would not be in this position. If it wasn'tt for amfa not believing in politics we would not be in this position!

Bob you are way off base with Sonney Hall, When he and the other person ran for the position, We as the members elected the Convention Delegates to represent us! The Delegates voted for the best person at the time! Simple as that! You supporting this Individual, shows you are willing to sacrafice the Majority for the Minority! Plain and Simple!!!! The committee will decide your fate not Sonny, But you already know this and you are insistent on twisting, lying and giving half-truths for your own personal agenda! I hate to tell you this! the Majority of the Presidents council and Members support this decission!

You are the one that is spending the time to tear down the International and everyone needs to understand it will be you and the other amfa wantabes that will be the downfall of our profession! If amfa would ever get in at AA they will have no credibility with the company, amfa has already proven they do not believe in the language of our Contract and virtually will be impossible for amfa to uphold!

I belong to the TWU, why should I blame AMFA if I am, as you claim, suffering from a "lack of education in this department"?

Lets look at the facts. If we are to find a union to blame for the industries difficulties you really do not have to look too far.

Back in 1983 it was the TWU that led the industry with the first "B-scale" contract that also included such landmark concessions as working 8.5 hours for eight hours pay, working overtime but getting straight time pay if training is conducted on OT, cross utilization, Part Time, R&D no longer being a maint only function, 4 weeks top out for vacation, 9 year (later 12) progression, one year wait for benifits, 6 month probation, I'm sure I missed a few others.

These concessions gave AA a tremendous competative advantage over other carriers, at the expense of its workers. Other carriers desperately sought the same concessions that the TWU provided AA.

Later on the TWU arranged for employees to pay for their own retiree health benifits, and contribute to their own medical coverage through "Flex benifits".

These concessions gave AA a tremendous competative advantage over other carriers, at the expense of its workers. Other carriers desperately sought the same concessions that the TWU provided AA.

Still later on the TWU got AA a six year six percent contract that kept real wages declining as the company scored record breaking profits for six consecutive years. In addition to that the TWU provided a all new low wage mechanic called an SRP that was used to displace A&Ps from the shops.


Once again, these concessions gave AA a tremendous competative advantage over other carriers, at the expense of its workers. Other carriers desperately sought the same concessions that the TWU provided AA.

Now our most recent deal puts us, who work for the largest carrier. 6th in pay with less vacation, less holidays, less sick time than even many non-union workers.

Again, these concessions give AA a tremendous cost advantage over even those companies that had their costs reduced by bankruptcy. In fact we gave up more than those who went bankrupt! And who is going to bear the burden of providing AA with Industry Leading Concessions? Not you CIO because you are employed by the International, but us! In fact we, the workers of AA,have been leading this entire industry in concessions for twenty years. UAL and USAIR had to go bankrupt in order to get the concessions that we gave up twenty years ago!

The claim that a minor player like Alaska Air could have a negative industrywide effect is pure bull. It was the concessions won at a major carrier like AA that put all airline workers in a race to the bottom, and guess what, we won!! We hit bottom first! Even most non-union workers get two weeks paid vacation but guess what, we have people that get only ONE WEEK of vacation!!! That is a new standards, thank you Jim Little, Gary and Bobby -I know-the members voted it in- after you guys told them that they had to.

Sonny Hall is a worthless thug who abuses his powers and is too much of a F----g coward to face those who he files charges against. He is unfit to lead.

Jim Little insists in his pathetic letter that we did the right thing by going to number six in pay with in reaility no paid holidays for line workers, just an extra 4 hours pay for 5 holidays while even those at bankrupt companys still get 10 at full holiday pay, 5 sick days with half pay for the first two days and a slew of other concessions that set the new standard for concessions throughout the industry.

CIO, how would you know what the members feel? As far as the Presidents council who cares what they think? In three years those that voted to bring this back will all be gone anyway, wasnt one already removed by his board? They will removed the right way, by their members. Is there room in the International for all of them? If the mechanics go to AMFA will there still be room for you and Bobby?

The fact is that our decline started twenty years ago, AMFA only represented tiny Ozark airlines then so you cant blame them. In fact for a while AMFA did not exist at all. The fact is that the majors set the pace, and AA has been the leader at getting concessions for at least the last twenty years. AMFA's pheonix like rise from the dead is not some right wing conspiracy, not some evil scheme to kill the TWU, the IAM or the IBT but the inevitable result of incompetant union leadership that is so busy feathering their own beds with high salaries and excessive perks that they failed to notice that their own members have no faith or trust in them. You are one of those incompetant union officials, you cant even come up with a rational arguement to support your beliefs. Instead you put out half truths and lies while accusing others. If you have an issue with what I've posted that you claim is inaccurate then be specific and I'll clarify it, will you do the same? How come none of you guys who are so confident that all the concessions we gave were absolutely essential are not willing to identify yourselves? Why doesnt Jim Little work for a dispatchers salary and give up all his perks? Why dont you?

 

[Steve Connell]

Well stated jake...and believe me not all here are in favor with amfa, like if amfa gets in at AA all will be well and my old car will start again also...Another For Me Asso. I believe NOT being AFL-CIO is a huge error, but just my opinion and one of many reasons for supporting my local......SC

 

[Buck]

Just what has the AFL-CIO done for the mechanics at AA or the airline industry?

 

[RV4]

Well stated jake...and believe me not all here are in favor with amfa, like if amfa gets in at AA all will be well and my old car will start again also...Another For Me Asso. I believe NOT being AFL-CIO is a huge error, but just my opinion and one of many reasons for supporting my local......SC

Steve,

I am all ears and ready to hear some details about what the AFL-CIO affiliation has gotten any of us in the last 20 years?


Please provide the glory and success in specific details, not a one liner opinion.

Does your success strories begin with the PATCO Air Traffic Controllers and their affiliation? Or is there a better Chapter One?

Maybe you are talking about one of these Chapters in the AFL-CIO's histroy?

http://www.nlpc.org/olap/ucu/artindx.htm#aflcio

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob;
I'm a FSC, who(along with every other FSC) will be negatively affected in a big way, if AA's AMT's go AMFA.
I'm also the ONLY FSC on these boards who has consistantly supported the AMT's in their quest for a Mech's only union(although I do support the "related" segment, be included as well)

I honestly wish there was another way to solve this dillema, without leaving the AFL-CIO.

"BUT",
the situatiuon is so bad now, that if it takes AMFA to ultimately be the "straw that breaks Sonny Halls back", than LET IT BE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

I do too but if Sonnys latest actions are an indicator of the likelyhood of change then he has left you no choice.

I had a discussion with a former AFL-CIO organizer over our dilemma, he pretty much said that that might be the only course to take, leave, then when the whole industy has reorganized rejoin the AFL-CIO as that new entity.

Sonny Hall and Kerrigan are old men, they really have no stake in the labor movement so they really dont care that their stubborn hold on to power is destroying the union. After all they dont have to live with the results, they would be lucky to live till the end of this agreement. How old will Kerrigan be in 2009?

The sad part is that all the ass kissers that do have many years left are just standing by as Sonny and all the other geriatrics destroy the labor movement. There may not be much left for them to take over. It reminds me of Stalin. As he lay dying his aids were still terrified of him. Like Stalin, Sonny purges out any possible resistance and surrounds himself with unthreatening lapdogs. His biggest requirement seems to be loyalty to him and not the goals of the labor movement- higher pay, shorter hours of work, more benifits and a pension.

 

[Bob Owens]

Jake;
You poor pathetic soul. Is the thought that you may be returning to the floor scaring you?

These are the events as they were reported to me.

Jim Little presented the letter to Chuck, Mark and Todd and told them to sign it. They were not told they could write their own at this point. They all refused. Little presented a letter to them indicating that Sonny Hall was suspending them. They still refused, THEN Little made the offer to let them write their own letter. He rejected it (even though it was very similar to the letter that he later accepted). A while later, Chuck submitted another letter, Little still was not satisfied. Finally Chuck submitted a third letter which was once again rejected. At this point Chuck apparently decided he had enough and would no longer sign any letter, peroid. The other two Presidents decided to sign a letter that Little now found acceptable, their choice. Just as its Chucks choice not to sign. When the other three Presidents came back they were given the option to write their own letters before being suspended, this option was not given to the original three.

Apparently Jim Littles plan to show these guys that he was the Alpha male did not go according to plan. Thats why he backpeddled by the time the other three Presidents came back.

Now maybe its a New York thing but hey, Chuck made three attempts at satisfying Jim Littles demands before he had enough. I dont blame him for refusing to sign anything, especially considering the circumstances under which it was presented.

Little was demanding that Chuck committ political suicide at the Local level. If Chuck would have signed a letter to his members that he did not write he would lose credibility. The members would see right through it and think that he had become a puppett. What Jim wanted to do was cut his b@!!$ off and make him a mouthpeice for Jim Little instead of someone who represents his members. Littles demands were completely unreasonable, who is he to put words in Chucks mouth? If Little wants to send a letter to the members of Local 562 fine, let him put his name on it. Chuck offered to write a letter three times but Little was trying to play hardball. Well, three strikes and your out. F-Little, I would not sign it either. Under what Constitutional basis does Little have the right to tell elected officials exactly what to say to their members?

Explain to me how the removal of an elected representative (who got nearly 70% of the vote in a three way race) by unelected -as far as the members are concerned- officials who levy charges based upon writings on the internet without even asking that person (me) if they wrote them has anything to do with democracy, accountability and unionism?

As far as the Oath I do support the Constitution, especially Article II. I have performed my duties faithfully, thats why I was relected by a greater margin than in the first election. Ask Bobby Gless why he asked me both times to run with him, he even had his wife beg me to run with him. I rejected him both times and he knew that he had no chance against Frank DeMarinis-RIP. Bobby lacks morals, I did my best to help him while in office, but I could not support him over a better man. Destroy the TWU? No, Sonny is seeing to that and lapdogs such as yourself dont even realize that he is screwing wannabees like you.

Sonny is driving this whole organization right into the abyss, At the last second he will hand the wheel off to you as he jumps off into his retirement. Ignoring this organizations defects are what will be its undoing. Twenty years of industry leading concessions should be proof enough that something is wrong. The only defenders you see over our performance are those who are on the TWU payroll who hide behind aliases, and why not? They are sure doing a lot better than the members.

The 25 guys that were protesting were mostly 562 guys. Look at the pictures and ask Gless if he knows the guys who are holding up the "Gless must go" and other Local 562 signs. A few Local 100 officers showed up later. I was moved by the efforts made by those who came out of their way on short notice to show support. How many Rank & File members do you think would make such an effort for you Jake? If you want to see how much support I have come to NY. Just ask Bobby, as he sneaks in and out of the Airport. Last week a mechanic caught him sneaking out of the Hangar to get his badge renewed. He didnt even want to come into the hangar! I guess the fact that one of the guys saw him buying two brand new wave runners at the boat show made him nervous. We see how International officers are making sacrifices! Ask Bobby how much of a welcome he gets in NY.

Local 100 is is one of the few bright spots. They offer hope. Our members after seeing them on TV asked "Is that the same TWU as us?". They fight, they organize, they rally, they challenge the authorities in defence of their members, not like Jim "How much do you want Mr Carty" Little.

Are you aware of how the AFL-CIO really functions? They are not a top down organization like the TWU. Sweeney could not arbitrarily remove Sonny Hall like Sonny does to Local officers. As such while the AFL-CIO can offer grat assistance its not at Sweeneys discretion but instead at each individual unions discretion. Unions come and go at their discretion.

Your belief that seperately, under unfocused unions, we as workers of this industry are just as powerful as we would be if we were in one union flys in the face of Unionism. Being diversified might be a good principle in business but not for unionists. Now I know why you hide under an alias. Try reading the SEUIs paper United We Win. They attack your theory and stress that the labor movement needs to move towards having the ability to focus on a particular industry and that workers would be better off in industry focused unions instead of unions that represent an extremely broad range of interests.

As far as the layoffs go I feel that we should fight for scope language that protects as many members as possible and not give away everything just to keep as many people as possible working. If you think that we should give away wages and benifits to increase or maintain employment then you are in the wrong camp, you belong in the RTW camp. Thats the same arguement they use against the minimum wage. Labors position has always been that if you work, you should make as much as possible, if there is no work, then we have a safety net made of Unemployment insurance and Welfare.

Explain to me how giving up a weeks vacation saves jobs? Doesnt having us all work more mean that they need less workers to do the same amount of work? In fact for every 51 people that gave up a week the company can lay off one more person, so by all of us giving up one week it allows the company to lay off around 700 more people without any reduction in production.

Slander? Lies? Put up or shut up.
Your statement;
The fact is --- because they did exactly what their constitution gave them the power to do."

Funny, I thought it was OUR Constitution!

You claim that I am a Liar yet present no examples. Could you be more specific?

You claim I have an agenda, but do you know what it is?

You claim I have no character, how would you know?

As far as the audit, I could care less. I asked my accountant about it when I first got into office, he said that he had been doing Local 504s books for many, many years and they never did audits for the International. We give monthly reports and an LM-2. The audit was started today, I have no problem with it. It would be nice if we were allowed to look as deeply into the Internationals books.

By the way, how would you know about the audit?

Blaming someone else is Littles specialty. You should know that Jake.

 

[Bob Owens]

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