Junior F/A''s say NO...to T/A

[coldplay]

----------------
On 4/4/2003 11:34:08 PM TWAnr wrote:

----------------
On 4/4/2003 7:23:54 PM FA Mikey wrote:

It will effect every furloughed flight attendant. Not just the TWA people. Talk about tunnel vision!

----------------​

 P.S.  I have just learned that John Ward insisted that the LLCers who were previously notified that they are being laid off effective April 30, 2003, are not entitled to receive their contractual furlough pay.  Well, the company thinks differently and they are going to be receiving it.

Can you please explain why their own union president was arguing against the interests of those he is supposed to represent and protect?  In my field, it is called malpractice.  On second thought, malpractice is the product of negligence, not the intentional infliction of harm.

----------------​

of yeah, I can see it now...amid the confusion and chaos during negotiations, John Ward and company called for a break, a 2 minute break from the chaos, and said...by the way, let''s go screw over the TWA people some more, let''s put that into the agenda for today for sure before we go home...ok back to the business at hand.

Christ, will you quit portarying those TWA LLCrs as martyrs, their furloughs were 3 years too late already, and it''s time for them to go. cut our losses and get rid of the ones who are the cause of the cash drain. never in my life have I seen JUNIOR people with less than 3 years making as much as a 15yr FA, and they still have the audacity to complain about it.

 

[Workingman]

Gee now how does it work? AA brings over Eagle and they are not part of AA so they all get stapled to the bottom and then AA has to call back all the TWAers to fill Eagle jobs as their date hire was in 2001 how much fun is that going to be. Then lets see who whines.

 

I have defended the TWA employees through this entire ordeal. But i am sick and tired of hearing who AA screwed you. This is American Airlines not TWA. You all want to still be considered twa than you should be gone like TWA. You have no right to seniority at all. You got huge pay raises when the company aquired you and you would be happy if we were still in good financial position. But we arent we need to cut our losses. Be happy your carreer was extended for a few years. I have a few close friends that have been laid off because of the purchase and two sisters. I feel for each and everyone of you but it is time to quit your crying and move on. You would do the same thing to any airline you purchased. It is every workgroups position to save seniority for their members you are no different.

 

[TWAnr]

----------------
On 4/4/2003 11:51:36 PM FA Mikey wrote:

You say, you heard that somewhere. Well, I have heard a lot of things too. Doesn''t necessarily make it true.

----------------​

This particular information came from members of the BOD and the Executive committee of the APFA. Do you consider Jeff Bott to be a reliable source? I do. You can choose to believe whatever fairy tales you care to. There is a reason that this union is hiding from its membership the values of the specific work rule changes and the number of furloughs that will result from each particular concession. An ignorant constituency is more likely to follow the pied piper off the cliff.

 

[L1011Ret]

Coldplay remains cold: "Christ, will you quit portarying those TWA LLCrs as martyrs, their furloughs were 3 years too late already, and it''s time for them to go. cut our losses and get rid of the ones who are the cause of the cash drain. never in my life have I seen JUNIOR people with less than 3 years making as much as a 15yr FA, and they still have the audacity to complain about it." And they are the cause of the cash drain? Please, conclusions like that would tax any sane mind.

 

[MiAAmi]

TWAnr,

You are not even an employee of AA. Over the past 2 yrs I have read your messages of how bad things at AA and APFA are.
This may be devine intervention for you. I''m sorry your spouse is looking at a possible furlough. Best wishes to you and yours. I think its time to hang it up.

 

[D3o2r8kdrvr]

To hell with all the grumpy TWA employees! You were within 12 hours of being shut down when the folks from DFW showed up. How dare you #### about the management of AA, your lucky to have been collecting a paycheck for the last 3 years. Your ride is over, accept it with dignity and deplane or else prepare to be labeled poor losers! With a little bit of hope STL won''t close and your cancer won''t spread to the rest of AA and perhaps you7r kids will have a legacy with an airline that knows how to do business!

 

[TWAnr]

----------------
On 4/5/2003 146 PM MiAAmi wrote:

TWAnr,

You are not even an employee of AA. Over the past 2 yrs I have read your messages of how bad things at AA and APFA are.
This may be devine intervention for you. I''m sorry your spouse is looking at a possible furlough. Best wishes to you and yours. I think its time to hang it up.

----------------​

I''ll tell you exactly what I told your buddy, Mikey, on another thread. If you want only employees to partake in this debate, confine it to the APFA Bulletin Boards and the members’ only sites such as 4M. You many not understand the concept of marriage. It is a complete partnership. I have a stake in the outcome of this debate and you are not going to shut me up. I will fight for my wife and her colleagues until my last breath. I fight for the underdog for a living and I will continue to do so here until justice ultimately prevails.

For the record, I have mostly confined my criticism, since this acquisition took place, to the issue of the breach of Don Carty''s promise to congress to treat the TWAers in a fair and equitable manner. The APFA treated the TWA flight attendants worse than any other union on the property treated their new coworkers. In addition, I never hesitated to challenge false assertions made by you and your fellow cheerleaders when you were inaccurate. I call it as I see it. If the truth hurts, so be it.

Let me close by thanking you for your well wishes and reciprocate. You will be furloughed as well, unless you are at least 6,000 from the bottom of the list.

 

[IORFA]

Maybe after TWAnr''s wife is laidoff he will shut up. We can only HOPE!!!!! Then 5 years later when she is totally disconnected from AA will we have Peace. By the way what is your lovely wife''s name so we can congratulate her on her wonderful decision to stay at a failing company so long and to choose such an irritating wind bag as yourself as a life long partner. I actually do feel sorry for her now.

 

[coldplay]

----------------
On 4/5/2003 1152 AM L1011Ret wrote:

Coldplay remains cold: "Christ, will you quit portarying those TWA LLCrs as martyrs, their furloughs were 3 years too late already, and it''s time for them to go. cut our losses and get rid of the ones who are the cause of the cash drain. never in my life have I seen JUNIOR people with less than 3 years making as much as a 15yr FA, and they still have the audacity to complain about it." And they are the cause of the cash drain? Please, conclusions like that would tax any sane mind.



----------------​

yeah it would tax any sane mind, especially emptyheaded minds like yours. quit the whining, 3 years have past, time to move on, move past the "oh TWA was screwed", move past the "John Ward hates TWA".

AA bought TWA at a time when they were in the middle of contract negotiations with the APFA, with the APA and TWU negotiations following soon. AA had so much cash on reserve, it didn''t want to show the unions they had this money, so what do they do? hide it by signing 30 year naming rights to arenas, and buying TWA just to say "it was a great deal, we save jobs, it makes us the biggest..by the way, we have no cash to give the unions what they ask, see our bank account just does not warrant a big raise for you guys...". US and UAL did not merge, 9/11 happens, economy tanks, voila, instant cash drain on the airline industry. The great plan backfired on them and made it a stupid purchase. In the meantime, AA continues paying top payscale to JUNIOR FAs (TWA) and then says, wow we''re having to borrow money for payroll these days, we''re bleeding 5Million a day, I wonder why? AA management had a good idea that the economy was on its way down, especially in a Bush Administration. Yet they make a monstrous purchase. I equate it to someone knowing he''s about to lose his job next week and goes buy a brand new car, a new house, and gets married.


ever wonder why the furloughs, the past 2 years? AA knew TW FAs were going to be "stapled" as you put it, they let the union do their dirty job, they washed their hands so they could say "Look John Ward hates you, you poor darlings.". Sad thing about it, you TWA FAs don''t see it that way, you still continue to blame APFA for all your problems. With the new concession TA, you start blaming the union AGAIN. You''ve got to realize that if there is an enemy it''s AA MANAGEMENT and not the APFA.

 

[IORFA]

P.S. How is that lawsuit that everyone at TWA is pining their hopes on going?

 

[L1011Ret]

It would be hard to blame AA management. According to all recent press releases by Bruce Hicks, AA spokesperson, the seniority issue was totally the responsibility of the unions. That AA promised "fair and equitable", a mediated process and a bunch of other things seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle and spin doctoring. If you follow the AA press releases, it appears that they are out to totally lay this responsibility on the unions. In so doing they can attempt to avoid any legal and monetary responsibility for possible outcomes of any of the lawsuits by pilots and F/As. As for APFA, they refused to meet with the Vice President of the IAM, refused to meet with the mediator paid for by AA and have consistently shown hostility to the TWA F/As. There is also a DFR in process in the courts for discriminatory treatment of the TWA F/As. AA tried to get APFA to relax some of the onerous terms of the integration (Sic) agreement and APFA refused. If there are monetary and other types of damages that are awarded should either of these major suits prevail, it appears that APFA will bear the major share of paying those damages. AA appears to be distancing themselves from these issues and perhaps APFA will end up being the fall guy just as APA was a few years back.

 

[MiAAmi]

Apples and Oranges. Besides APFA has Reno as a precedent.

 

[skivoodoo]

What about AirCal as a precedent?

 

[firstamendment]

Wow!! I know I will get blasted for this but I have to agree that it appears that the union leaders at AA have no love for the ex TWA f/as. It is one thing to tag people to the bottom of the senority list, but tagging people to the bottom of the food chain shows the true Sky Nazi reputation of your company.

Let''s see...AMR decided for what ever reasons that it wanted to buy TWA...AMERICAN decided. Nobody else. When they decided to buy the entire company that is TWA, they also bought the employees. If they didn''t want the employees, they could have waited for the eventual fire sale..BUT...they didn''t. They also could have bought a small enough percentage as to not take the employees.

So now, as the airline industry goes to hell in a handbasket, your company decides to eliminate virtually every f/a from TWA because you did your "duty" to provide these employees a job for an extra two years? I have read this over and over on this board. So let me see...Granny ex-TWA f/a has 3-4 years left until retirement and the 30 something with 2 kids has flown for 30 years and 16 years should be on the bottom of a list because they weren''t original AA''ers? Some 20 year old twinky who knows crap about life is valued more for their one or two years of service than a veteran f/a who been devoted and loyal ? You people are sick. There is nothing anyone at AMR can say to justify the kind of BS and arrogance this represents. Go ahead and try. THAT IS SICK THINKING!!

You''re union leadership does not represent all of your f/as. Yes, those TWA folks got raises and I''m sure they are grateful. You guys seem to think they are asking for special rights. I would think job security would not be looked upon as special rights, considering the number of old stews "real" AA has themselves. You mean to tell me that not one 20-40 year flight attendant had the guts to stand up for their age peers and fight against a system that would screw men and women so close to retirement? SHAME!!

I hope AA is never on the receiving end of this behavior. You know, UAL, the sponsors of AFA''s policy of date of hire, tried to pull that crap by trying to not only change the bylaws but get rid of AFA all together. Their 6 month and 2 years flight attendants were pitching a fit about senority. Where are they now? Unemployed. Where is UAL now? Bankrupt. Poor management may have landed US Airways into bankruptcy, but arrogance put UAL there. Now their f/a''s are losing thousands of jobs and no hope of leaving bk by years end. I can''t help but chuckle at those who fought so hard against the U merger and the f/a''s

In otherwords, what goes around comes around...but don''t worry..within that time, all the TWA folk will be gone and anyway, out of sight...gone.. "they were going under anyway" Funny that the same people that are suppose to take CARE of people can''t even take care of their own..even if they are adopted. God help such arrogance.