JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet
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charlie Brown
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- Nov 18, 2008
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The answer is sometimes they are there. As I said many months ago when the nmb was invited in, these are not nmb controlled talks. That comes under section 6 once a side has declared a impass. As you know these are not section 6 talks.
The company many months ago requested a mediator to set in and the association agreed. Why are they there? It was assumed they would give both sides suggestions and advice on how to solve unresolved issues. But since we are not in section 6 and they are just there to give suggestions, they basically get there when they can.
charlie Brown
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Yes I agree. Went through that 2 times with LUS. And yes they are reminded. But imo the company has lost the initiative now to get this done by the end of the year. Open enrollment is in place for the insurance, and any other benefit like the co-mingling that a new contract would bring the company, is going to have very little impact this late in the year on their bottom line. So I personally think they are now focused on 2018.
charlie Brown
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I don't disagree at all. But some people out there still thinks this company respects us. The letter they put out on negotiations should show those people how respected we are. Maybe if your a mechanic you can still feel some respect. But for fleet? Parker stated a long time ago that a ramp job is not a career job anymore. That's how he truly feels about fleet. He could care less how disrespected fleet feels as long as the planes get loaded.
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AANOTOK
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Maybe there should be a "hiccup" in how bags are loaded if that's truly how he feels.
I still go back to the how the Association was promoted, Strength in numbers, the Ass would be very powerful and a organization the company would respect. Nope, not happening and the Association has no more power to force them than the TWU or IAM would have. And now, a rumor that AA MAY be scheduling less meetings because of the picketing (which falls squarely on the backs of the TWU) is even more disturbing because once again, the Associations "power in one" hasn't appeared yet. What is the Association gonna do??
I still go back to the how the Association was promoted, Strength in numbers, the Ass would be very powerful and a organization the company would respect. Nope, not happening and the Association has no more power to force them than the TWU or IAM would have. And now, a rumor that AA MAY be scheduling less meetings because of the picketing (which falls squarely on the backs of the TWU) is even more disturbing because once again, the Associations "power in one" hasn't appeared yet. What is the Association gonna do??
charlie Brown
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Some people think these lack of meetings in the next two months is the company pushing back due to the info picketing. It is possible I guess, especially if the company has already conceded that nothing will be reached for this year, they may just use the lack of scheduling as their way of pushing back. I do know for sure the picketing gets under the companies skin big time. This was the reason the company released their letter to the membership a few weeks back.
But speaking as a fleet member, I do think our strength is in the numbers, and also staying side by side with the mechanics in these negotiations.
Sure the association isn't the perfect scenario, but it's a done deal, so I try to move forward instead of crying about what might have been. We can sit around and complain about the association, but what good does that do us.
Having said all that, the company imo is constantly trying to drive wedges between the two unions. They would much rather be dealing with only one union.
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AANOTOK
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A. Crying is a pretty strong word, Charlie. I haven't shed one tear. Secondly, as a member of the TWU, I pay dues and have the right to question, request, disagree with what direction I feel the should go and if they have detoured from that direction, you may calling it complaining, but I call it a voice. I have that same right with the Association. But having said all of that, my voice has absolutely no bearing on how the Association is handling the negotiations. AA is calling the shots (see scheduled meetings) and the TWU seems to be the thorn in the companies side. Finally, I'm not looking at "what might have been" Charlie, I'm voicing my opinion on what is not being done now and what I hope can be achieved in the future. Right now that would be to meet more than once a month. And before it's thrown out there again, no, I don't want a contract that is cost negative, I don't want a contract just to get a contract. How about lets start with meetings, nothing can happen without them.
charlie Brown
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First off, My post about the crying wasn't directed specifically at you. And I guess we will disagree on if crying is a strong word. I personally don't see the strength in the word crying. But anyway, you absolutely have a right to express your opinion. I respect the fact that you even care enough to get on here. But as I have said, you have to have both sides agreeing to meet. Doesn't do us any good to be there if the company is not.
And as far as the twu being a thorn in the companies side, there are different opinions on if or when we should be picketing, and if it is beneficial or detremental to the talks. I'm fine with it either way. But if we are going to push the company by picketing, we are fooling ourselfs if we think the company isn't going to push back in their own way.
NYer
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CB... As mentioned in the past, the current frustration and anxiety towards negotiations stems mostly from the inadequate communications from the Association.
The proper expectations were never set, aside from "no concessions" and "industry leading" tag lines.
Most on the TWU side, in Fleet, seem to be under the impression that we will retain most of our language and simply gain holidays, sick days, shift differential, double time language and just call it a day. With that impression, the next logical step is to ask why something like that should take so long.
There is no talk or explanation on the complicated task of combining two sets a CBA's into one. Most on the TWU side will be surprised at the changes to language they believe was perfectly fine, like OT, PT and others. If those expectations aren't set before the language is settled and a TA is reached, the current frustration will just continue to grow and eventually boil over.
The proper expectations were never set, aside from "no concessions" and "industry leading" tag lines.
Most on the TWU side, in Fleet, seem to be under the impression that we will retain most of our language and simply gain holidays, sick days, shift differential, double time language and just call it a day. With that impression, the next logical step is to ask why something like that should take so long.
There is no talk or explanation on the complicated task of combining two sets a CBA's into one. Most on the TWU side will be surprised at the changes to language they believe was perfectly fine, like OT, PT and others. If those expectations aren't set before the language is settled and a TA is reached, the current frustration will just continue to grow and eventually boil over.
Steve Walegir
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C . B.
I may be new to airline forums but in my nearly 30 years at AA none of this surprises me. The management team in place now is basically the same group from the HP-US merger. They learned their lesson from back then and took care of the pilots and FA's, but imo they could care less about anything below the wing. As long as a certain plans can fly a certain route they are happy, whoever fixes it or loads it is secondary. Personally I think 2018 might even be unrealistic unless we accept a substandard deal. Parker and Isom can awe shucks we want a jcba all they want to the camera but actions speak louder then words and that letter they put out outlining some of their offer was a punch in the gut. Basically I just wanted to say I support the negotiations team even though I'm not a big Sito fan. Keep fighting the good fight, our disappointment is with management not the unions. Having said that, and understanding confidentiality, is there a fight to keep the IAM medical? I realize it is a huge fight to fight, and probably not a winning fight, but is that the stance of the association? If yes then could the IAM join in on the pickets demanding that the healthcare be kept?
The IAM medical is a straw man. The LAA medical is not bad and btw, the entire rest of the company is on it.
This is not hard, you get something from the company for getting everyone on the LAA medical, i.e.... a much better 401K Contribution, like the pilots and Flight Attendants got and move forward.
Value is value, it doesn't matter where it is with each line item.
The LUS medical was only the what is was because they were $10 per hour below the rest of the industry in pay, that has now ended.
This is not hard, you get something from the company for getting everyone on the LAA medical, i.e.... a much better 401K Contribution, like the pilots and Flight Attendants got and move forward.
Value is value, it doesn't matter where it is with each line item.
The LUS medical was only the what is was because they were $10 per hour below the rest of the industry in pay, that has now ended.
charlie Brown
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I can only explain it this way. Take the overtime article for instance. Once the IAM and TWU groups hash it out about a particular article, and some articles take a very long time to do that. But once the association comes together and agree with way your going, you then present it to the company and the company gives a proposal of just the opposite back to you. Like where we would adopt the twu language, the company would want to adopt IAM. And where we would want to adopt the IAM, the company would go twu language. Well then it basically puts the IAM and twu back to square one in what each side must have and what we can achieve from the company. This can be, and obviously has been very time consuming. It's basically two sets of negotiatiins going on at one time. The association negotiates among the two sides first, then once you've reached an agreement with the two sides, you then have to go through the company.
Steve Walegir
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100% agree NY, the communication has been awful. I realize confidentiality but there is still a obligation to make sure the membership is properly informed. I personally am made to feel like I'm not responsible enough to know what is going on, like a parent keeping information from their child because they aren't old enough to understand. We are all adults and the person negotiating today could have been by belly partner 6 months ago, just because they won a local election doesn't make them smarter or more trustworthy with information. You say "Most on the TWU side will be surprised at the changes to language they believe was perfectly fine, like OT, PT and others. If those expectations aren't set before the language is settled and a TA is reached, the current frustration will just continue to grow and eventually boil over.", sorry I wouldn't know because we haven't been cc'ed in on those talks
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