JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[B737 driver]

Not at all. In a perfect World I'm going to make over $30.00 per hour and not pay even one thin dime for Medical Insurance, Medical Care or Prescription Drugs. As a matter of fact in my perfect World my Doctor will make House calls with that little black bag carrying his stethoscope and give me a lollipop before he leaves.

What do you think is the likelihood if I hold out long enough I'm going to see my perfect World? How long do you think I should put my foot down for and demand to see my perfect World?

Have you been reading any of the conversations between myself and swamt about his now over 5 year wait for his perfect World?

So true Weeezz I have about given up getting a contract to vote on, with this group we got running the show.They want how they want it, and the only way it will change is when the membership most of them get fed up and demand to get this settled.The road shows have probably bought AMFA about six months, or longer till people really start to turn in their heads, the real economic loss. I have been called everything from a company plant, shrill to a greedy individual member. It is funny to watch how our group is becoming just like the industrial unions, that Swamt hates.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You must multiply the yearly hours and the holiday hour by the hourly rate with the differential, if you try to separate the differential and then add it in, you arrive at a different answer, the correct way is this,
(2080 x 32.5) + (40 x 32.5) = 68900

adding it in after the fact produces this
(2080 x 32) + (40 x 32) + ( .5 x 2080) = 68880
leaving a 20 dollar difference.

the correct way is this
((2080 x 32.5)+(40 x 32.5)) - ((2080 x 32) + (40 x 32)) =1060 dollars per year not 1040.

you must multiply the differential across the number of total hours of straight including holiday hours
(2080 + 40) x .5 = 1060


The more you Know.

Well Bob that was the wild card for me.

You work 8 but get paid for 12 so do you get the shift differential for actual hours worked or do you get it for 12 hours?

I did not really know the answer for that during my calculations so I figured shift differential by actual hours worked.

That is why I asked people to check (validate) the formula I was using.

 

[conehead777]

You vote your way I will vote mine. If you think for one second, that "if" our medical cost structure and plans are included into any JCBA that it will not pass, you are being delusional. Just like I completely understand that "if" we lose our medical for $$$$$ per hour and more holidays/vacation, it will pass. Maybe you should talk to some of your P/T friends you know and show them the comparison of our 80/20 and your "value" 80/20 costs. They come out ahead even paying double what a F/T pays. And I am talking the family plans here weez. Heck it is even less that the LAA "standard" plan. So spare me the dramatics on how we have screwed over our P/Ters for good insurance. and they would just about break even with our 90/10 family plan. where it hurts is the 100% plan. So check bobs numbers again, show your P/T friends and see where it lands.

LAA P/T Family: $335.65 for the "standard" plan and $653.38 for the "Value" plan, and they are just 80/20 plans
LUS P/T Family: $212.98 for our 80/20 plan and $621.86 for our better 90/10 plan. Either way it is cheaper for your P/T LAA folks to come to our insurance. I don't see why you have a problem with this, just look at the numbers.

Look I think most aa people want the lower insurance cost. But why are you complaining with us about it . It’s not the old aa management team it’s the aw/us management team that’s in charge that agreed to your insurance plan but now all the other work groups are on old aa plan. That tells me Parker is going to hold that line.either the iam needs to start working with us twu people in unity are your going to loose that insurance. But from what I have seen from iam people there happy with there more sick time holiday pay etc that they have over the twu people. They just sit on the fence and do not care about the twu getting our due. . Your beef needs to be with Parker and Isom. Us twu folks picketed dfw Mia lax sfo and wriggly field where were the iam people . So your either with us are against us. I’ve decided I will vote no if it’s aa insurance and not the lower one. Because it’s the right thing to do for all our wallets. But we allso need strong language against future increases . But the main thing instead of you iam complaining at us you need to work with us and start showing that we’re together.

 

[conehead777]

Look weez, you think I'm being idealistic with the medical, and I think you're being obtuse with the medical. We aren't going to agree. The medical for LUS IS ABSOLUTLEY A CONCESSION if it is lost for the LAA insurance. I'm sorry you don't see that as one. But since you gots yours, it's all ok. I thought that once we were a combined workforce we would all get along, now I'm not so sure. With you folks at LAA willing and certainly able to "sell out" for the $$$$$. All I read is that anything that is better than what you folks at LAA have now will get voted in because you have the numbers. I know that is a fact. LAA outnumbers us for sure. And will absolutely carry the vote. But why screw over you newly adopted family to do so? You guys would trip over a dollar to grab a nickel. You are starting to fall into the all I want is the $$$$$ category now weez. It looks like to me that the $$$$ is more important to you than anything else. And I would wager that it looks like to you that the insurance it all I care about. I want a deal that is going to excellent for all. And with every snide response, I lose more and more respect for you. The difference to me is I want ALL of us to have the best of everything, you want whats best for the weez and the LAA folks. You make that plainly clear. My apologies to anybody on the LAA side that feels differently than weez. I know that there are alot of you out there that think we should fight for the best of everything and not cave for the $$$$$. Just like there are alot on the LUS side that think the same as weez.

I feel the same way abut you us air people not supporting the aa people. Y’all seem to be sitting on the fence. Because right now your sick time vacation and holidays are better then ours. But I do not here to many us air folks supporting the aa side either. Where was the iam at the pickets. Weather your for picketing are not the iam people should of been there to show solidarity with the twu people . Plus you would of showed your management team that took over aa that you were strong in support with us aa people. I want a industry leading contract and neither the iam contract are the twu contract stand alone in force now are not industry leading

 

[WeAAsles]

So true Weeezz I have about given up getting a contract to vote on, with this group we got running the show.They want how they want it, and the only way it will change is when the membership most of them get fed up and demand to get this settled.The road shows have probably bought AMFA about six months, or longer till people really start to turn in their heads, the real economic loss. I have been called everything from a company plant, shrill to a greedy individual member. It is funny to watch how our group is becoming just like the industrial unions, that Swamt hates.

Our little dilemma is that we really do currently have a minority of our total that is fine with remaining status quo. I can completely understand their position and if I was in some of their shoes I wouldn't want to face the unknown either.

Looking at the industry contracts I really don't see any dramatic improvements to come on the LUS side (In Fleet) over what they already have. They already have their now almost $7.00 per hour raise so they don't feel that counts any longer. Nope that was our Socialist entitlement I guess.

So yes at best I see for them another 4% or so DOS plus yearly increases on the front end, and another 4% Match or increase to their IAMNPF on the back end. Maybe another week vacation and a few small tidbits contractually here and there?

And as you can see I'll get a label (Enemy) slapped on me too right quick if I don't automatically Lemming myself to their cause with unflinching fervor. Nah, I'm more comfortable discussing those more grey areas on things myself.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Well Bob that was the wild card for me.

You work 8 but get paid for 12 so do you get the shift differential for actual hours worked or do you get it for 12 hours?

I did not really know the answer for that during my calculations so I figured shift differential by actual hours worked.

That is why I asked people to check (validate) the formula I was using.

That 40 represents 8 hours at time and a half, for double time that 40 is now a 80

 

[737823]

Weez will you get your vacation weeks this year? Don’t most all of the MIA LLCers have more company seniority than you? I know you are an IGM type but didn’t LGA being a 25% station force you out to DFW (4/10/01)?

Josh

 

[737823]

Why doesn’t 568 force the LLCers on to the IAM and be “represented” by Sito and their IAM TWA brethren?

Josh

 

[NYer]

@pjirish317

The issues that is currently influencing the frustration on the LAA side is the lack of information, education and the proper expectation.

Since the beginning, the Association has been wholly inadequate in explaining the JCBA process and setting the proper expectation with some on this very page saying it would be a quick process.

If there was an education on the differences in the TWU and IAM CBA's and an explanation on how complex the issues would become there is a chance that many would be more patient and understanding and even supportive.

That didn't happen and most believe the JCBA will look the same as their current CBA with the only changes being enhancements. Once a JCBA comes, I wouldn't be surprised if you'll see both sides coming together and being disappointed. It isn't happening now because most don't realize the changes that are taking place in the language they're used to.

That time will come.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez will you get your vacation weeks this year? Don’t most all of the MIA LLCers have more company seniority than you? I know you are an IGM type but didn’t LGA being a 25% station force you out to DFW (4/10/01)?

Josh

Um, lol. WTF? lol. This was all very out of left field weird.

 

[737823]

Um, lol. WTF? lol. This was all very out of left field weird.

Because of TWA/Kasher you were forced out of LGA, right? Even with 25% they trounced your 1995 seniority and at the time you weren’t even top of scale?

Maybe NYer knows but what are the implications for Kasher at LUS points? When MCI gets reopened will it be a 100% or 25% or 4/10/01 city? What about points that LAA didn’t have staffed like CLT or BDL that are now IAM LUS staffed? What about places that LUS is staffed that TWA didn’t fly to at the time of the acquisition? Does everything default to 4/10/01 (as it should systemwide)?

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Because of TWA/Kasher you were forced out of LGA, right? Even with 25% they trounced your 1995 seniority and at the time you weren’t even top of scale?

Maybe NYer knows but what are the implications for Kasher at LUS points? When MCI gets reopened will it be a 100% or 25% or 4/10/01 city? What about points that LAA didn’t have staffed like CLT or BDL that are now IAM LUS staffed? What about places that LUS is staffed that TWA didn’t fly to at the time of the acquisition? Does everything default to 4/10/01 (as it should systemwide)?

Josh

To set the record straight for the book you're writing on us Airline Workers. I transferred to DFW in June of 1997 to go FT and try something different. People I hired on with didn't get FT in LGA till 1999 and they never got bumped down because of the TWA acquisition.

Hope that clears up your confusion man. It's all down in the record books.

 

[gulfcoast1]

Has anyone listened to the PHX townhall? Robert Isom says the comprehensive proposal has a lot in there and will put a lot of money in the member's pockets. I am not posting this to say I agree. I am posting this to hear your opinions.

 

[pjirish317]

Look I think most aa people want the lower insurance cost. But why are you complaining with us about it . It’s not the old aa management team it’s the aw/us management team that’s in charge that agreed to your insurance plan but now all the other work groups are on old aa plan. That tells me Parker is going to hold that line.either the iam needs to start working with us twu people in unity are your going to loose that insurance. But from what I have seen from iam people there happy with there more sick time holiday pay etc that they have over the twu people. They just sit on the fence and do not care about the twu getting our due. . Your beef needs to be with Parker and Isom. Us twu folks picketed dfw Mia lax sfo and wriggly field where were the iam people . So your either with us are against us. I’ve decided I will vote no if it’s aa insurance and not the lower one. Because it’s the right thing to do for all our wallets. But we allso need strong language against future increases . But the main thing instead of you iam complaining at us you need to work with us and start showing that we’re together.

conehead,

You're absolutley right that it's the old AW/US management team that wants our insurance. My question is, why now? Why didn't they go after it before these JCBA talks when we were in section 6 prior to the merger? This cost structure we have has survived 2 BK's, a round of JCBA negotiations and section 6 negotiations. So why now is it a "MUST HAVE" for the company? I also completely agree that since Parker and company gave the Pilots and F/A's invreases outside of collective bargaining, the very least that he could do is bring you folks to our 7 holidays, our holiday pay, our vacations, and our sick time accrual to start. He showed exacty how he feels about the whole fleet and MTC workgroups by not doing this. I apologize if my fighting for the better, less expensive insurance seems like I am complaining to you guys, I am trying to get you folks to see the light. I will not anymore. And as far as working together, that street goes both ways.

 

[pjirish317]

Snide remark or not but I feel like I've been tied to a chair as you keep trying to force words into my mouth and I'm being uncooperative.

No the $$$$$$ is not the most important thing to me. I'm already pretty well loaded actually, having no other people to have to take care of. Actually I bet if the Company didn't offer insurance for people's families (their choices) than those of us who actually "work" for the Company would pay a lot less.

I think the Employees should have 100% subsidized employee healthcare and outsiders should bear the cost for that if you really want to know my deepest, darkest thoughts on the issue.

Honestly do you think I should have to subsidize your family? They don't go to Disneyland with me man.

Oh and to quote you back Irish "But since you already gots yours, it's all ok I guess" Meaning says the guy looking down from the high perch at those not on it quite yet.

And you have every right and even expectation to advocate for your cause but all I ask is to please not be a hypocrite about it. I have a very strong barometer for picking up on those types.

How am I "looking down from the high pearch"? The benefits I get from theLUS stand alone CBA were negotiated in our section 6 talks. Granted, it was sped up by this merger, but honestly the only thing we got out of the merger through the CBA was the pay. The enhancements we received through that process were supporting the current language we had. So our CBA language was there long before this merger. I do not know when you guys lost all that you did, be it in 2003, or through the BK process, and I honestly feel for you guys. But like you always point out to me, we are making $30+ an hour now, thanks to this merger. Do you think you would be there without it? I know I don't. So we both "gots ours" with regard to the pay. Are you subsidizing my family insurance now? If you are, how so? How am I being a hypocrite about anything with these issues? I want you guys level with us with what we have now, so we all gain going forward. It is not the IAM's fault, the Associations fault, or my fault for that matter that you guys are not on par with us. That is strictly management. They could have done for you what they did for the pilots and F/A's but they chose not to. Why?