JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Albert]

MEM 10 mainline flights a day.... Sure if it were up to me. Hate to say but those 13 won't count for much in a vote. Weez you an I have been here a long time how far back do you want to go we each know hundreds who have been "separated". You know AA is a business not a not for profit charity

Oh I forgot Weez you work for the TWU

 

[WeAAsles]

MEM 10 mainline flights a day.... Sure if it were up to me. Hate to say but those 13 won't count for much in a vote. Weez you an I have been here a long time how far back do you want to go we each know hundreds who have been "separated". You know AA is a business not a not for profit charity

Yes Al I absolutely recognize that the Airline we work for is a business and I very much want it to continue making a profit well into the future.

And actually most of those 13 retired. I'd be fine with at least simply what we lost in 2012.

There is an old saying. "You can't save the World" Some Cities have been closed a very long time now.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh I forgot Weez you work for the TWU

Only if being paid in occasional T-Shirts counts as working for? Hell I'm not even a Union Steward. ($250.00 per quarter)

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles,

TN will be closer this time because he knows that we will have a solid CBA and knows what the tops are in the industry regarding wages and benefits. Does he have someone on the inside? Based on what he posted, NO.

P. Rez

Who knows what the final product will entail exactly? But I could have made up all the same details looking at the CWA PSA contract, UAL ground contract and TWU SWA contract. It all falls fairly in line.

The signing bonus and buyout is where his "details" start to run a little off the track for me.

 

[Albert]

Who knows what the final product will entail exactly? But I could have made up all the same details looking at the CWA PSA contract, UAL ground contract and TWU SWA contract. It all falls fairly in line.

The signing bonus and buyout is where his "details" start to run a little off the track for me.

I'm curious what Tim's focus will be once there is a contract and he is TWU. Will he annoy the TWU officers or just continue to slam the IAMPF. If he isn't active he might start plucking his own feathers

 

[NYer]

and I think that's why some peeps were upset about what I posted. We have many in ORD who have been 'guaranteed' by our TWU Local president that he will negotiate the reopening of DTW. My understanding is that isn't happening and that the company will protect all current jobs over the unborn stations. DTW was aborted and the company apparently has no interest in rebirthing it. LUS lost its current health care starting in 2018. Fa and others took a beating on some social media sites where it was said that the TWU failed in reopening the 5-10 stations they promised to open.

I have mixed emotions. I believe many LUS will like the contract, especially if they are single. But pending the undefined part time issues which could loom large, others may not like it either. I myself am very uncomfortable with the thought of losing our current LUS health care in 2018 only to dump the cash out into the IAMPF. That's a lose lose for me. Admittedly, most LUS won't read or won't believe they will get shiat on again by the Union Pension Bosses. But I 100% support taking care of the members we have instead of any compromise to lose work or stations just to get IAH, DTW, etc.

In my opinion, once the UAL contract was ratified it became much more difficult to get some of our stations opened. Now, I just hope we can keep the stations we have and hopefully extend the "drop dead" date for our current stations if the final number of 15 flights ( the language is actually 5475 annual departures) isn't lowered.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm curious what Tim's focus will be once there is a contract and he is TWU. Will he annoy the TWU officers or just continue to slam the IAMPF. If he isn't active he might start plucking his own feathers

He's already it seems up the arse of the TWU Local officers in ORD. He's certainly not coming across as a fan of President Tim Murphy. Nelson may not be TWU yet but agreements made by Management and the Local there can and do effect him, so all that is his call.

I think eventually he will transfer wherever he needs to be to remain IAM IMO? He has way too much fun (again IMO) rattling their chains to remain in the boring (By comparison) TWU.

 

[Jester]

Yes Al I absolutely recognize that the Airline we work for is a business and I very much want it to continue making a profit well into the future.

And actually most of those 13 retired. I'd be fine with at least simply what we lost in 2012.

There is an old saying. "You can't save the World" Some Cities have been closed a very long time now.

Shrinking number of stations or a refusal to open old or new stations, even those meeting a reasonable number of daily mainline flights, would be a non-starter for me.

I loathe the idea of a "virtual airline" and eventually ramp agents retreating into fortress hubs. I don't understand as if we have a F/T crew and maybe a P/T crew in a hub handling 6-8 flights in a day would be any different than that same crew(s) performing that work in a small station. Wouldn't the cost be pretty much the same?

 

[NYer]

Shrinking number of stations or a refusal to open old or new stations, even those meeting a reasonable number of daily mainline flights, would be a non-starter for me.

I loathe the idea of a "virtual airline" and eventually ramp agents retreating into fortress hubs. I don't understand as if we have a F/T crew and maybe a P/T crew in a hub handling 6-8 flights in a day would be any different than that same crew(s) performing that work in a small station. Wouldn't the cost be pretty much the same?

If you compare it to the labor cost of a running another station within the airline, yes.

If you compare it to the labor cost of a competing airline, maybe not.

 

[Jester]

/QUOTE]

I think we all know the reality... the Company would prefer to contract as much as possible $30/hour ramp agents with contracted help for $12/hour, even if including the contractor's profit margin. But where does it stop? We are to ignore the importance of a fellow brother who wants to go back home under a reasonable number of daily mainline flights because of the Company making billions of dollars wants to save a few bucks?

 

[Tim Nelson]

In my opinion, once the UAL contract was ratified it became much more difficult to get some of our stations opened. Now, I just hope we can keep the stations we have and hopefully extend the "drop dead" date for our current stations if the final number of 15 flights ( the language is actually 5475 annual departures) isn't lowered.

I agree

 

[Talos]

In my opinion, once the UAL contract was ratified it became much more difficult to get some of our stations opened. Now, I just hope we can keep the stations we have and hopefully extend the "drop dead" date for our current stations if the final number of 15 flights ( the language is actually 5475 annual departures) isn't lowered.

We had looked at the UA deal where they had pretty much agreed to a very bad scope deal that had them staffing the hubs and not much else. Then UA came to them and gave them a much better deal which had them staffing a lot more stations. I can't recall the exact number but it was substantial. With our merger here you would think more stations would be opened due to adding flights from the 2 airlines. It will be interesting to see how it plays out and what kind of arrangement results from it. If we just keep what we has then that's in the companies favor.

 

[gulfcoast1]

In my opinion, once the UAL contract was ratified it became much more difficult to get some of our stations opened. Now, I just hope we can keep the stations we have and hopefully extend the "drop dead" date for our current stations if the final number of 15 flights ( the language is actually 5475 annual departures) isn't lowered.

I asked about this last week, and if IIRC Prez said he thought (not for sure but thought) that whatever Scope Clause ends up in the new JCBA will be closer to LUS than LAA.

Would that not mean that the grandfathered stations you mention would be reopened if we end up with something closer to LUS Scope? Closer to LUS would have to be around 7 or 8 flights a day worst possible case scenario. Surely that would bring cities like DEN, DTW, SAN, SNA, etc. back online? Or is there something I am missing? Are these stations not LUS staffed now?

Not to open up another can of worms, but has it already been determined who will represent stations like the ones I listed. I would think the TWU would have an issue with all of them being IAM represented. Was this already determined back when they were discussing the BOS situation?

 

[NYer]

We had looked at the UA deal where they had pretty much agreed to a very bad scope deal that had them staffing the hubs and not much else. Then UA came to them and gave them a much better deal which had them staffing a lot more stations. I can't recall the exact number but it was substantial. With our merger here you would think more stations would be opened due to adding flights from the 2 airlines. It will be interesting to see how it plays out and what kind of arrangement results from it. If we just keep what we has then that's in the companies favor.

There are two thresholds. One to keep a station open, which is equivalent to 15 flights a day. Then there is the threshold to reopen a station, which is equivalent to 20 flights a day. (counted as annual departures)

 

[NYer]

I asked about this last week, and if IIRC Prez said he thought (not for sure but thought) that whatever Scope Clause ends up in the new JCBA will be closer to LUS than LAA.

Would that not mean that the grandfathered stations you mention would be reopened if we end up with something closer to LUS Scope? Closer to LUS would have to be around 7 or 8 flights a day worst possible case scenario. Surely that would bring cities like DEN, DTW, SAN, SNA, etc. back online? Or is there something I am missing? Are these stations not LUS staffed now?

Not to open up another can of worms, but has it already been determined who will represent stations like the ones I listed. I would think the TWU would have an issue with all of them being IAM represented. Was this already determined back when they were discussing the BOS situation?

They also thought we'd be done by July or the end of the summer.

We'll see.

I believe the representation question needs to be addressed further.