JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[NYer]

Now we're getting somewhere. These are things I could have easily added to any of my own posts as my own thoughts, I see we are in agreement, mostly.

The 150 day clock was very educational, as well as the all hands on deck time of 2003 "to avoid BK", in that it shows all of us exactly how quickly they can complete a contract when they really want to.

THAT is my entire point, thank you for buttressing it.
Now, if we could only get our unions off their collective butts and get this thing done, as they should have long , long ago. I think we've earned a much better effort from our NC than we've had to date.

So if you get a quicker deal but with inferior language and opposed to the NC trying to enhance as much as they can, you'd prefer the quicker deal?

Getting a good deal and expediency aren't always hand in hand. As a matter of fact, I have a sense that since there has been very little information from the Association most Members will be disappointed with the JCBA and those that want a resolution today will be the loudest voices to Vote No and send everyone back to the table.

That would be ironic.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Curious? Who is NOT a Management shill in your mind or eyes?

Is there anyone in either the IAM or TWU that you wouldn't throw that comment at? Or are they all off golfing together on the weekends?

I think the following link confirms the truth about Sito. Alaska Airline needed a dance partner to circumvent the $15.35 minimum wage at SeaTac. Sito came running. Agreed to waive all Local Ordinances dealing with the drive for $15 to establish $12 in Seattle.

Went from 24 employees now to over 1,200 in one year. Coming to an airport near you.
http://www.iammcgee.com/our-contract.html

 

[psa8979]

Curious? Who is NOT a Management shill in your mind or eyes?

Is there anyone in either the IAM or TWU that you wouldn't throw that comment at? Or are they all off golfing together on the weekends?

TN has never met or worked with a Union Boss he loved to hate . Carry On ! Asc. JCBC . Good Luck ! DFW/TWU with that mis-informed picketing .

 

[Traymark]

So if you get a quicker deal but with inferior language and opposed to the NC trying to enhance as much as they can, you'd prefer the quicker deal?

Getting a good deal and expediency aren't always hand in hand. As a matter of fact, I have a sense that since there has been very little information from the Association most Members will be disappointed with the JCBA and those that want a resolution today will be the loudest voices to Vote No and send everyone back to the table.

That would be ironic.

Irony? Ok:
Oh damnn, Excuse me. I didn't realize that expecting an expedient deal after 14 years of BK language and compensation, that also had enhanced language across the board and in fact was industry leading across the board, given the companies unprecedented financial position was such a heavy lift for our NC.

I'm sorry. You guys on the NC, just go ahead and take as long as you like, after all, I wouldn't want all you fine gentleman to burn out, and don't worry if it's not industry leading, after all, many on here keep reminding me how good we have it now, with the raise and all.
yeah, ironic...

I can never get over the union nuance that never ends to excuse away their ineptness.
The Pilots group would have long ago fired their NC if they rolled like this.

 

[swamt]

Sito? really? The guy is a management shill, 100%. It's proven.

I figured as such. My point was the other poster I responded to missed my point to begin with is all.

Don't believe it is in the interest of a union body to put an artificial time limit on negotiations. That gives the Company full advantage to hold the line for 150 days and either has the union agree to what the Company is willing to give or take your chances with an arbitrator to decide your JCBA.

View attachment 11869

Then there should no longer be any crying about getting a contract done soon. If you want to leave the door wide open to non-stop (ongoing) negotiations then the co. will always make that happen. This is why our top priority for this contract on the list of preferences was retro pay. If the co. gets out of retro pay every single time they stall like they have this time they will just continue to do it every single time, that's why there is such a strong hold for full retro, the co. wanted the 5 year pay freeze and now they must pay for what they brought on themselves.

 

[WeAAsles]

Irony? Ok:
Oh damnn, Excuse me. I didn't realize that expecting an expedient deal after 14 years of BK language and compensation, that also had enhanced language across the board and in fact was industry leading across the board, given the companies unprecedented financial position was such a heavy lift for our NC.

I'm sorry. You guys on the NC, just go ahead and take as long as you like, after all, I wouldn't want all you fine gentleman to burn out, and don't worry if it's not industry leading, after all, many on here keep reminding me how good we have it now, with the raise and all.
yeah, ironic...

I can never get over the union nuance that never ends to excuse away their ineptness.
The Pilots group would have long ago fired their NC if they rolled like this.

Just to be clear? Even though we don't work for that Airline, do you find it tolerable that AMFA at SWA has been going (negotiating) for 5 years now while the TWU/IAM Association has been negotiating for a year and a half.

Seriously curious if you have been following the AMFA predicament?

 

[WeAAsles]

I figured as such. My point was the other poster I responded to missed my point to begin with is all.


Then there should no longer be any crying about getting a contract done soon. If you want to leave the door wide open to non-stop (ongoing) negotiations then the co. will always make that happen. This is why our top priority for this contract on the list of preferences was retro pay. If the co. gets out of retro pay every single time they stall like they have this time they will just continue to do it every single time, that's why there is such a strong hold for full retro, the co. wanted the 5 year pay freeze and now they must pay for what they brought on themselves.

They won't pay you.

Next?

 

[NYer]

I figured as such. My point was the other poster I responded to missed my point to begin with is all.


Then there should no longer be any crying about getting a contract done soon. If you want to leave the door wide open to non-stop (ongoing) negotiations then the co. will always make that happen. This is why our top priority for this contract on the list of preferences was retro pay. If the co. gets out of retro pay every single time they stall like they have this time they will just continue to do it every single time, that's why there is such a strong hold for full retro, the co. wanted the 5 year pay freeze and now they must pay for what they brought on themselves.

If you have the magic trigger to make the Company do as you want forward it to the NC.

 

[WeAAsles]

I think the following link confirms the truth about Sito. Alaska Airline needed a dance partner to circumvent the $15.35 minimum wage at SeaTac. Sito came running. Agreed to waive all Local Ordinances dealing with the drive for $15 to establish $12 in Seattle.

Went from 24 employees now to over 1,200 in one year. Coming to an airport near you.
http://www.iammcgee.com/our-contract.html

Alright at least at first view and without further clarification this agreement is absolutely terrible.

I thought at first they had a crossover agreement but all it is is an interview preference which doesn't guarantee anything at all for a better paying job.

Now I don't see Sito's signature on the agreement but, AA is a very different animal and this contract is a first agreement. I'd love to read an explanation out of curiosity why this was signed into being without any of the BS slants?

 

[Traymark]

Just to be clear? Even though we don't work for that Airline, do you find it tolerable that AMFA at SWA has been going (negotiating) for 5 years now while the TWU/IAM Association has been negotiating for a year and a half.

Unacceptable as well, but
lets be clear,
the boys at SW have been industry leading through most of those 5 years until only recently,
not really the same thing.
We've been at the very bottom of the industry during the last 14+ years

But I certainly understand your attempt at nuance...

 

[WeAAsles]

Unacceptable as well, but
lets be clear,
the boys at SW have been industry leading through most of those 5 years until only recently,
not really the same thing.
We've been at the very bottom of the industry during the last 14+ years

But I certainly understand your attempt at nuance...

And I understand how people want and need to focus or harp on the past. But to me American Airlines as I knew it went out of business on December 9, 2013. Even though the new Company I work for carries the old name, I don't really feel like it's the same. It's sort of like a ghost image of the old bird.

And I'm very very very tired of the ridiculous argument between OLD AA and SWA. The NEW AA has around 14,000 Mechanic and related and SWA has around 2,500. Traymark what some SWA might make compared to you don't mean chit if you couldn't have gotten a job there. (You don't and never have worked for SWA)

And the OLD AA went through a lot of BS that SWA was able to navigate around and you know that too. Choosing to ignore facts still doesn't change them.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The process has slowed. One thing significant is the unexpected success of my argument to get a rerun election. Thus, i believe, and i admit this may be biased, that our lus leaders were on the verge of collapsing our health insurance, knowing they were in office for 4 years. So i dont think its unexpected that lus bosses are more cautious with that trigger. In fact i think its the exact sorta thing i would expect, given an election around the corner.

 

[WeAAsles]

The process has slowed. One thing significant is the unexpected success of my argument to get a rerun election. Thus, i believe, and i admit this may be biased, that our lus leaders were on the verge of collapsing our health insurance, knowing they were in office for 4 years. So i dont think its unexpected that lus bosses are more cautious with that trigger. In fact i think its the exact sorta thing i would expect, given an election around the corner.

IMO. IAM people (And especially you) are wwwwaaaayyyyyy too focused on personal politics and chasing that tail of the dog for my tastes.

I also think that even though you're probably a slight focus Tim, you're far more a thought in your own mind then you are in anyone else's.

And this is slightly off topic but kind of not really. This man here is not IAM. He is TWU. Weird also how it seems at least again to me like the IAM wants to own everything?

 

[WeAAsles]

TWU Local 591 Member.

 

[Traymark]

If you have the magic trigger to make the Company do as you want forward it to the NC.

One good start would be to insist that they stay at the table 7 days a week until completed.