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JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

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Tim you've officially ran off the farm with your straight jacket dangling and your scraping your skin trying to push your way through the weeds man.

Get back on your meds Tim. Please. You're losing track of which personality said what now.
at least I know who tim is now, and he is a pretty amazing individual. I'm sure he's suffered for doing the right thing. Have to say, he doesn't del phi anyone, and is besides Bob Owens, whether you agree with his opinions or not, union leaders that are very thought out, and willing to fight for what they think is right, and not what's in their best interests. so If this is supposed to be a burn against Tim or I, I don't get it. You on the other hand are useless tool, and have psychologically played with well meaning people, with your training, which tells me all about the hell your personal life is.Those meds are what you end up taking not because you need them naturally, its the hell your soul creates from the path you've chosen.
 
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The Corporate America conglomerate has won because they have pushed people into 401k's and shunned pensions and they have got many Americans believing their bullshit.
This guy, this guy right here!

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at least I know who tim is now, and he is a pretty amazing individual. I'm sure he's suffered for doing the right thing. Have to say, he doesn't del phi anyone, and is besides Bob Owens, whether you agree with his opinions or not, union leaders that are very thought out, and willing to fight for what they think is right, and not what's in their best interests. so If this is supposed to be a burn against Tim or I, I don't get it. You on the other hand are useless tool, and have psychologically played with well meaning people, with your training, which tells me all about the hell your personal life is.Those meds are what you end up taking not because you need them naturally, its the hell your soul creates from the path you've chosen.


Do you eat Donuts with a knife and fork?

 
Well, nobody is talking about wanting to see our pension frozen. It is what it is. But it is just stupid, Big League stupid, to negotiate any company contribution increase into our IAMNPF instead of 401k. The strong rumor is that the health care benefits will be cut, but we will get that cost imputed into the IAMNPF as a cost netural sorta thing. That's like giving extra money straight to a drunk.

That said, the IAMNPF is falling fast. Actually, it has been falling as all of these multi employer plans are a complete disaster now economically. Our plan was in very bad shape before the 2009 economic downturn and had to make a big league plan cut in 2003 to wish away future liabilities. Obviously, with an aging participant group, it was only a band aid slash and had to be slashed monstrously in 2011. That also was only a band aid as the math doesn't lie. Today, it is worse off than the 2011 whack job.

Yet not one union leader will stand up and educate our members about this. In fact, my guess is that our union leaders will keep doing what Prez is, i.e., saying it's better than a 401k even though whatever the company giveth to the IAMNPF, the pension bosses will taketh at this point from us. And they will have to take again in another 5 or 6 years after they take this time. Every 6 years, the plan will need some serious cut in benefits. It simply can't sustain and is burning tens of millions each year. Unlike some other plans that took on the full force of the great recession, the IAM pension bosses took advantage (as well they should) of a new law to save it and amortized the loss over 10 years, i.e., 10% a year. Otherwise, it would have already been a goner like some of these other pensions. But it still has to make a Big League cut soon, and then again a few years later. It's inevitable. Prez is the sales agent, he isn't going to shoot straight on this. Plus, his grand lodge pension (second pension off of his AGC gig) is fully funded. Dude gets like 2 pensions and 401k so he wants to keep that gig. I'm not surprised that the Grand lodge pension [extra pension that pays out big league to Prez and other union bosses] is fully funded.

And very few members will engage this issue as they close their eyes and bury their head and hope this problem goes away. Let it be said by me, that any JCBA that switches total compensation benefits from our health care to the IAMNPF is wrong and evil since you might as well just hand over those benefits to the IAM pension bosses right now and have them burn them up. Because that's what is going to happen.

We need the company to contribute more to our retirement and that means that any increase in company contributions need to go into our 401k and not be burned up by the IAM Pension bosses. Wake up people, you aren't in Kansas.

The unions are only hoping that none of the membership will get involved so they can run it just the way THEY want to run it and it will NOT be good for the membership as you have already indicated. I believe we are on the same page between 401's and pensions. But a union ran pension is the absolutely worse case to be involved with.

What you said is silly. Defined pensions were fantastic until the late 70s when pension laws changed and allowed the steel industry to shitcan pensions. Since then, bankruptcy laws have been changed to allow greater flex for companies. And now the pbgc is wunding down and there isnt any money so laws changed again to now eliminate retirees checks. Wake up weaasles. I doubt lus like me see much if any benefit after we retire.

So Tim, why do you think he is pushing this pension plan? I understand he gets the fully funded pension being an IAM union officer and it is just sad that they (the union guys) DO NOT live under the very same pension as the members of the union. What the "F" is wrong with that picture? Get a clue people (not you Tim). Good God what does it take for these people to see the entire picture?
 
i copied and pasted but someone did a great job exposing this iampf scam ponzi here.

With the iampf your guaranteed 40 hours contribution if you work the 40 hours.
If you CS off 1 or 2 days in that week then you only get contributions of hours worked. If you exceed worked hours totalling 40 hours you only get 40 hours.
If you make up the 1 or 2 days you CS off from the week before you will not get those contributal hours back. 40 hours max is all you get and you have to work them straight time. Overtime, holidays and CS working like picking up a double will not get you more contributions into the pension. As far as part time employees I don't know the rules because I did not inquire about it since aircraft maintenance has no part time workers (yet). If your a commuter and work doubles then the iampf will screw you over big time.
We all know how much better the current 401K plan is even though the TWU negotiated the worse one of the three union groups. We need to improve on the 401K and yet the association is pushing to go the other way for the benefit of the iampf instead of its members. We need to get rid of this association and the twu. They have lost touch with the membership and the membership has no confidence in the twu.

put the third leg in weaasles weaasle

I have said this for months. The 401K way out weighs the pension that the IAM has, by far, run the numbers yourself, I have and it is night and day. Plus with the 401 you control when you are in or out not you hoping someone is managing it correctly for you (Enron ring a bell sir?) Plus your 401 will live on and passed down to family members if you were unexpectedly to die, where a 401 would pass right on over to your survivors and family if you were to pass. It really is a no brainer guys do your freakin homework and your own investigations. Stop waiting for your union ran and controlled pension people to spoon feed you the wrong info. Hellooooooo...
 
The unions are only hoping that none of the membership will get involved so they can run it just the way THEY want to run it and it will NOT be good for the membership as you have already indicated. I believe we are on the same page between 401's and pensions. But a union ran pension is the absolutely worse case to be involved with.



So Tim, why do you think he is pushing this pension plan? I understand he gets the fully funded pension being an IAM union officer and it is just sad that they (the union guys) DO NOT live under the very same pension as the members of the union. What the "F" is wrong with that picture? Get a clue people (not you Tim). Good God what does it take for these people to see the entire picture?


yeah, imagine that, an officer pension is fully guaranteed. the members? Look the rules changed with permanent low interest rates. If we can hire enough part timers, maybe 80 percent of the work force, guess things will work out for the pensioners, thanks to the restrictions of the funds. They'll be the contributors.
 
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Prez
When one of the 3 legs is a Mother F'ing scam
Then yes
You only advocate for 2 strong legs of the stools.
Please remember too
LAA has a Pension, it's doing just fine.

Pensions back in the 70's are not even comparable to the IAMPF
not even close
It's apples and moon rocks.

Just give me what our friends at Delta have for 401k contribution/match
Or our friends at Southwest have
Or just give me the exact same language the Flight Attendants at AA got in this last contract
5 years of 9.9% CONTRIBUTION if over age 50
That's 80% of us.

We want nothing to do with the IAMPF
Nothing.
 
I have said this for months. The 401K way out weighs the pension that the IAM has, by far, run the numbers yourself, I have and it is night and day. Plus with the 401 you control when you are in or out not you hoping someone is managing it correctly for you (Enron ring a bell sir?) Plus your 401 will live on and passed down to family members if you were unexpectedly to die, where a 401 would pass right on over to your survivors and family if you were to pass. It really is a no brainer guys do your freakin homework and your own investigations. Stop waiting for your union ran and controlled pension people to spoon feed you the wrong info. Hellooooooo...


and the american 401k has millions of options for all risk levels now. Its not a 10 choice fund anymore.
 
I have said this for months. The 401K way out weighs the pension that the IAM has, by far, run the numbers yourself, I have and it is night and day. Plus with the 401 you control when you are in or out not you hoping someone is managing it correctly for you (Enron ring a bell sir?) Plus your 401 will live on and passed down to family members if you were unexpectedly to die, where a 401 would pass right on over to your survivors and family if you were to pass. It really is a no brainer guys do your freakin homework and your own investigations. Stop waiting for your union ran and controlled pension people to spoon feed you the wrong info. Hellooooooo...


That was a great write up.
 
LAA has a Pension, it's doing just fine.

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Just give me what our friends at Delta have for 401k contribution/match
Or our friends at Southwest have
Or just give me the exact same language the Flight Attendants at AA got in this last contract
5 years of 9.9% CONTRIBUTION if over age 50
That's 80% of us.

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We want nothing to do with the IAMPF
Nothing.

Regarding your first comment:

We have a FROZEN Pension. We DO NOT have a continuing to accumulate Pension any longer. And our Pension is Billions underfunded too BTW. You do know that right?

Your second comment:

You advocate for something YOU want using the words "Just give me" Nothing wrong with that.

Your last comment:

You DO NOT speak for me or the entire collective membership. I'm more than capable of making up my own mind and decisions without your input thank you very much.
 
and the american 401k has millions of options for all risk levels now. Its not a 10 choice fund anymore.


So are you putting 20% or more of your pay into the 401k then?

How much are you putting in man? You've gotten some fantastic raises lately. How much of that are you putting in to that 401k?
 
Tim,

You are confusing everyone. In one post you say the IAMNPF is a disaster and no money should be put into it. You say multiple cuts will occur. Then you say in another post we should keep what we have and don't add any more to the pension. Then in another post, you say I hope LAA guys get into it to help your pension. How does that help if it is such a disaster? Then in another post you say the pension sucks.

Pensions are rare nowadays but as labor leaders, advocates we should just give up on them? The 3 legged stool consists of a pension, savings and social security. To be clear, the 401k falls under savings. So, as labor leaders, advocates we should go to a 2 legged stool? That is what your advocating? There are no simple answers and life throws curve balls at you constantly, but as a leader or advocate, you have to fight. The Corporate America conglomerate has won because they have pushed people into 401k's and shunned pensions and they have got many Americans believing their bullshit. Why did Boeing want to get rid of the pension and the employees fought so hard to keep? It costs Boeing more to have a pension. What if politicians are successful in slashing Social Security or privatizing it? One legged stool?

I don't have all the answers but the fight needs to be about working hard for 40-50 years and then enjoy retirement comfortably. It shouldn't be work 60-70 years and die.

I am only trying to do the right thing. Do you want me to give up and say, oh well, 2 legged or maybe 1 legged stool it is?

P. Rez
It is a disaster. And there are facts. Full disclosure is what im preaching. I have no problem if twu peeps go into the plan if they had informed consent.

Defined pensions were great before all the laws changed where the dealer takes all your money. First up were the laws that changed that allowed the steel industry to dump pensions. Then the bankruptcy laws were changed where companies like american could declare bankruptcy with billions of dollars and terminate pensions. Laa was lucky it was only frozen. And now laws were changed for union pensions to act like companies and knife actual retirees as long as they arent 80+ years old. These plans are insolvent or on a collision course with insolvency. Its not even about the iam pension but all union pensions. The iam pension decided not to bite the bullet so instead of taking the big recession hit one time, they agreed to amortize it over 10 years. You ever try treading water with ankle weights on? Thats whats happening. Other unions took the plunge but the iam chose to tread water over ten years and its now too damn heavy and sinking.

Yes we gotta keep the iam pension because we are stuck with it but any increased company contribution ought to go into 401k for us so we can at least have a hedge against defined benefit cuts. Im speaking from a lus perspective. If i were twu i wouldnt consider getting into the iampf but as a iampf participant i would have no problem if 30,000 lemmings join. It will buy time for the inevitability of the plan. But it wont save us from at least one more cut pretty soon.
 
Right now, the Twu including Rosen has to come out, and truthfully expose the iampf, and how its holding the membership hostage. We are the larger work group being held hostage by the smaller work group, and its not good faith. The Ass in the spirit of Bond/Mccaskill, makes the association illegitimate anyway, and Trunka should be removed from office for allowing it.


By your post here I take it you are LAA. Being LAA, are you MTC or Fleet? Who is holding the "larger" workgroup hostage? What in the world does "in the spirit of Bond/Mccaskill, makes the Association illegitimate anyway" even mean?
 
Regarding your first comment:

We have a FROZEN Pension. We DO NOT have a continuing to accumulate Pension any longer. And our Pension is Billions underfunded too BTW. You do know that right?


Your last comment:

You DO NOT speak for me or the entire collective membership. I'm more than capable of making up my own mind and decisions without your input thank you very much.

#1 ~ I feel much more confident in receiving all of my AA frozen pension than any of a possible IAM pension, and if you asked any financial manager to look at the numbers, they'd agree with me.

#2 ~ Betchya I'm more right about the collective membership on the IAMPF than you are, betchya...

Other than you and P.Rez, I literally have heard not a single other person, LAA or LUS advocate for the IAMPF. No one else.

I might add, you have started dancing on a pin's head with your support of a possible "option".

So where is this groundswell of support for the quickly failing IAMPF?

The NC knows full well, the IAMPF will not go over well with the membership.
That is the holdup.
Prove me wrong.
 
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