JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tim Nelson]

Getting anything better than what we have would be ideal for the TWU but at this point, being the last group to get a JCBA, it seems unlikely the Company will choose this time to cave on their obvious and stated goal of everyone being in the same insurance.

If the Association gets a different medical plan that will open issues with the other work groups either now or at their next turn at a CBA. Doesn't seem logical for them to do that at this point.

Our amenable date is September 12, 2018. However, on September 11, 2018 our station staffing placeholder will expire leaving a handful of stations vulnerable to be outsourced.

I think the IAM could be waiting for the new enrollment to already be in the works but prior to the pension being cut again. October could be the year. Politically, Sito may try to disguise any medical cuts one year to give cover for a rerun election for the current officers. I admit I'm biased on this next comment but I'd say that the current officers won't fully disclose the IAMPF to our members and TWU members prior to a ratification, but it's bad. Hopefully, they prove me wrong and 'Fess up" about the plan and give us some cover with the 401k. I don't believe that will happen though. Worst case for LUS is if the current leaders sell a TA that coughs up our health care but package it as a pension enhancement [cost neutral] only for the Union Pension Fund Bosses to take that at the end of the day with another pension fund cut. That's prolly most likely imo, and that would be in the realm of intentional deceit. Anyone who reads the Actuarial Valuation Report of our IAMNPF [It is not handed out, must be requested] will necessarily conclude that a 3rd cut is coming.

 

[Tim Nelson]

WIth a Union Pension, remember, it's NEVER YOUR MONEY.

Due to the new Law to help Union Pension Bosses deal with a declining membership and participation in their Union funds, ONLY Union Fund Bosses can take your money that you earned and slash a retiree check in half. Not even a company can get rid of a retiree check. Our retirees at US AIRWAYS and American, once they collect, keep those amounts as regular pension laws don't allow a company to cut retiree checks. But in 2014, when congress didn't want to start flipping the bill for Union Pension Bosses and refused to allow funds for the Union pensions in the PBGC, instead it washed its hands and allowed the Unions to go after the active benefits of their own members. Sorta like eating their own. Unfortunately, most unions now have to do this. The IAM won't be the exception, it just bought time by not taking the 2009 economic hit in one massive pounding and instead decided to tread water and amortize the hit over 10 years (10% a year). READ THE effING Actuarial Valuation report PEOPLE! Oh yea, that's the report that you have to request. That 10% hit has been sinking the IAMNPF 5% a year. The double whammy is the interest rate of 7.5% that is assumed but only 3.5% realized. Hundreds of millions of dollars. I don't have to see next year's report after reading this years 200 page document showing the hit this plan will DEFINATELY take with the 10% hit and the interest hit. Toss in that the average age is now around 50. So with more retirees coming to fruitation, where is the money going to come from??? The IAM Pension bosses will 100% have to review the recommendations of the 2016 Actuarial Valuation report. Not good. I don't know what action they will eventually have to take but it will be bad. TWU leaders can't request this information since they are NOT part of the plan. but IAM members can. Anyone who wants a copy should hit me up. After reviewing the information, I don't see how any TWU leader, in good conscience, can advocate or recommend his members into this plan. I'm an IAM member and I'm stuck in this and I have no problem if the TWU doesn't fully disclose the plan's forecast, as it may buy me a few more years before the Pension Bosses have to steal my benefits once again. http://www.roanoke.com/.../article_6d4170b4-f30a-5e62...

 

[737823]

Getting anything better than what we have would be ideal for the TWU but at this point, being the last group to get a JCBA, it seems unlikely the Company will choose this time to cave on their obvious and stated goal of everyone being in the same insurance.

If the Association gets a different medical plan that will open issues with the other work groups either now or at their next turn at a CBA. Doesn't seem logical for them to do that at this point.

Our amenable date is September 12, 2018. However, on September 11, 2018 our station staffing placeholder will expire leaving a handful of stations vulnerable to be outsourced.

I pointed that out and asked WeAA about a number of the small stations (ATL, AUS, SJU, STL, SAT) and he shrugged it off and thinks management will act benevolent and not uproot those people.

Bottom lines is SAT and STL are impacted by S80 withdrawal whereby on the low end they're back filled with additional Eagle departures (not included in scope) and on lager end fewer frequencies on larger A321/738 gauge (reduction in overall departures).

ATL and AUS are probably going to be ok, but it doesn't look good for SAT, SJU and maybe STL. Seasonal adjusted average for SJU is teethering 15 departures even with LUS flyng.

Wonder what the LLCers will do if they have to go to a 25% or 4/10/01 station. Then again if there is a JCBA IAM has MCI which was also 100% but got contracted out in BK. If STL doesn't survive whatever new language MCI is even less likely based on size of operation.

Too bad 700 isn't around anymore to praise the IAM and offer justification for this association.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Getting anything better than what we have would be ideal for the TWU but at this point, being the last group to get a JCBA, it seems unlikely the Company will choose this time to cave on their obvious and stated goal of everyone being in the same insurance.

If the Association gets a different medical plan that will open issues with the other work groups either now or at their next turn at a CBA. Doesn't seem logical for them to do that at this point.

Our amenable date is September 12, 2018. However, on September 11, 2018 our station staffing placeholder will expire leaving a handful of stations vulnerable to be outsourced.

Everyone at AA will be in the same plans. Those plans we can call for practical purposes "The AA Medical insurance company" if that makes this confusion easier for you.

The difference will be in what TWU/IAM Association members pay by percentage compared to other both represented and non represented workgroups? (Which the Company should offer to match over time to others)

Do you understand at all the concept of a Company being "Self Insured" Sir?

 

[737823]

Everyone at AA will be in the same plans. Those plans we can call for practical purposes "The AA Medical insurance company" if that makes this confusion easier for you.

The difference will be in what TWU/IAM Association members pay by percentage compared to other both represented and non represented workgroups? (Which the Company should offer to match over time to others)

Do you understand at all the concept of a Company being "Self Insured" Sir?

WeAA different states have different providers but AA is self-insured. Third party (UHC, BCBS, etc) simplly handles the adjudication of claims and administration of benefits pursuant to the plan terms.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAA different states have different providers but AA is self-insured. Third party (UHC, BCBS, etc) simplly handles the adjudication of claims and administration of benefits pursuant to the plan terms.

Josh

Exactly. Thank you for reiterating my comment Josh.

AAANNNNDDD the IAM cost survived through both the second Bankruptcy at US AAAANNNNNDDD the standalone IAM agreement at the NEW AA. Without any placemat language too BTW readers.

One little yellow minion dude can't seem to get that through his ridiculously dense skull. "Thick as a brick"

 

[Tim Nelson]

Getting anything better than what we have would be ideal for the TWU but at this point, being the last group to get a JCBA, it seems unlikely the Company will choose this time to cave on their obvious and stated goal of everyone being in the same insurance.

If the Association gets a different medical plan that will open issues with the other work groups either now or at their next turn at a CBA. Doesn't seem logical for them to do that at this point.

Our amenable date is September 12, 2018. However, on September 11, 2018 our station staffing placeholder will expire leaving a handful of stations vulnerable to be outsourced.

The closer we get to the September 11 date the less leverage we have. The company will hold that drop dead date as a ticking threat.

 

[bob@las-AA]

I have also heard pretty much those same rumors. The evil dreaded IAM and foul Stygian ruler Sito is NOT trying to force us into crossing the river Styx into the IAMPF.

I quit smoking one month ago tomorrow and still can't smell any IAMPF sulfur?

I quit more than a year ago weez, and I gained like 25 lbs. it sucks.

 

[NYer]

I pointed that out and asked WeAA about a number of the small stations (ATL, AUS, SJU, STL, SAT) and he shrugged it off and thinks management will act benevolent and not uproot those people.

Bottom lines is SAT and STL are impacted by S80 withdrawal whereby on the low end they're back filled with additional Eagle departures (not included in scope) and on lager end fewer frequencies on larger A321/738 gauge (reduction in overall departures).

ATL and AUS are probably going to be ok, but it doesn't look good for SAT, SJU and maybe STL. Seasonal adjusted average for SJU is teethering 15 departures even with LUS flyng.

Wonder what the LLCers will do if they have to go to a 25% or 4/10/01 station. Then again if there is a JCBA IAM has MCI which was also 100% but got contracted out in BK. If STL doesn't survive whatever new language MCI is even less likely based on size of operation.

Too bad 700 isn't around anymore to praise the IAM and offer justification for this association.

Josh

They go by annual departures with the threshold being 5475 (measured every six months and going back 12)

The last list of annual departures reads as follows:

SJU 4366
SAT 4788
ATL 5309
TPA 5412
STL 6013

 

[Tim Nelson]

I pointed that out and asked WeAA about a number of the small stations (ATL, AUS, SJU, STL, SAT) and he shrugged it off and thinks management will act benevolent and not uproot those people.

Bottom lines is SAT and STL are impacted by S80 withdrawal whereby on the low end they're back filled with additional Eagle departures (not included in scope) and on lager end fewer frequencies on larger A321/738 gauge (reduction in overall departures).

ATL and AUS are probably going to be ok, but it doesn't look good for SAT, SJU and maybe STL. Seasonal adjusted average for SJU is teethering 15 departures even with LUS flyng.

Wonder what the LLCers will do if they have to go to a 25% or 4/10/01 station. Then again if there is a JCBA IAM has MCI which was also 100% but got contracted out in BK. If STL doesn't survive whatever new language MCI is even less likely based on size of operation.

Too bad 700 isn't around anymore to praise the IAM and offer justification for this association.

Josh

WeAAsle may be right though. I haven't kept up with it but the company's presumed response on September 11, 2018 (assuming a continued negotiation stall) ought to be tipped by their flight schedule in the year preceding, right? I know we pulled out of SJU/LGA market. What is the current flight activity of STL, SAT, AUS, ATL? Good seeing ya Josh, I know you keep up with this stuff.

We did resecure MCI through the America West merger. Hey, for a good read, pick up Ted Reed's book on the American and US AIRWAYS merger. I talked to him yesterday and added him to my facebook group and we discussed his book. I didn't know he was actually employed by US AIR.

 

[Tim Nelson]

They go by annual departures with the threshold being 5475 (measured every six months and going back 12)

The last list of annual departures reads as follows:

SJU 4366
SAT 4788
ATL 5309
TPA 5412
STL 6013

Does that include LUS aircraft as well? And does the LAA contract recognize LUS flight activity? I'm guessing no since some contracted stations arent' staffed which appear over the threshold.

 

[WeAAsles]

The closer we get to the September 11 date the less leverage we have. The company will hold that drop dead date as a ticking threat.

So if since Parker took over we haven't seen him engage in any type of Jeff Smisek style worker hatred and animosity (Serious chit) what makes anyone think he's going to start it in September 2018?

And do you really seriously believe Garcia and Pantoja are still going to be hitting those negotiating tables another year and two months out from now? I highly doubt it.

 

[NYer]

Does that include LUS aircraft as well? And does the LAA contract recognize LUS flight activity? I'm guessing no since some contracted stations arent' staffed which appear over the threshold.

That's just LAA and our Scope doesn't include regional as part of the count.

 

[737823]

WeAAsle may be right though. I haven't kept up with it but the company's presumed response on September 11, 2018 (assuming a continued negotiation stall) ought to be tipped by their flight schedule in the year preceding, right? I know we pulled out of SJU/LGA market. What is the current flight activity of STL, SAT, AUS, ATL? Good seeing ya Josh, I know you keep up with this stuff.

We did resecure MCI through the America West merger. Hey, for a good read, pick up Ted Reed's book on the American and US AIRWAYS merger. I talked to him yesterday and added him to my facebook group and we discussed his book. I didn't know he was actually employed by US AIR.

Hey Tim, yes I have read the book. Admittedly it was rather rife with errors and appeared hastily prepared (reading reviews on Amazon will confirm this) but it was a good read. Other good ones out there are the Delta's Climb from Despair to Dominance by the Airline Weekly guys (Seth Kaplan and Jay Shabat). Neither were quite as entertaining as former LAX FA Alicia Lutz Rolow's book from 2008 though.

As for mainline departures on Monday 7/10/17:

AUS-
CLT 4x (2x 319, 1x 320, 1x 738)
DFW 11x (8x 32B, 2x 738, 1x S80
JFK 1x (1x 738)
LAX 4x (2x 32B, 2x 738)
MIA 0x [3x E75]
ORD 4x (2x 738, 2x S80)
PHL 2x (2x E90)
PHX 1x (319) [and 3x CR9]

Total: 33x AA: 27x AE: 6x

ATL-
CLT 6x (2x 319, 1x 320, 1x 321, 1x 738, 1x E90) [plus 3x CR9]
DCA 0x [5x E75]
DFW 7x (4x 738, 2x 32B, 1x 320)
LAX 3x (2x 738, 1x 32B)
LGA 2x (1x 319, 1x E90) [plus 4x E75]
MIA 4x (2x 319, 2x 738) [plus 2x E75]
ORD 2x (1x 319, 1x 738) [plus 3x CR7]
PHL 7x (3x 319, 2x 320, 2x E90) [plus 1x CRJ]
PHX 2x (2x 320)

Total: 51x AA: 33 AE: 18x

SAT
CLT 3x (3x 319) [plus 1x CR9]
DFW 11x (7x 32B, 3x S80, 1x 319
LAX 0x [2x E75]
ORD 1x (1x S80) [plus 2x CR7]
PHX 2x (2x 319) [plus 2x CR9]

Total: 24x AA: 17x AE: 7x

STL-
CLT 4x (4x 319) [plus 2x CR9]
DCA 0x [3x ER4, 2x E75]
DFW 7x (4x S80, 3x 738)
LAX 2x (2X 319)
LGA 0x [4x E75, 1x ER4]
MIA 2x (1x 738, 1x 319) [plus 1x E75]
ORD 5x (4x S80, 1x 738) [plus 1x E75 and 1x CR7]
PHL 0x [2x ER4, 1x E75, 1x CR7, 1x CRJ]
PHX 2x (1x 738, 1x319)

Total: 42x AA: 22x AE: 20x


Sorry this is long and forgive any typos.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

So if since Parker took over we haven't seen him engage in any type of Jeff Smisek style worker hatred and animosity (Serious chit) what makes anyone think he's going to start it in September 2018?

And do you really seriously believe Garcia and Pantoja are still going to be hitting those negotiating tables another year and two months out from now? I highly doubt it.

I've said that I think it is all about politics. I think we will have a TA by the fall. Sito will give up the LUS health care cost but do so after initial enrollment papers are filed, thereby buying another year to help cover some of the damage to his peeps in the January nominations. But his window in pulling off a JCBA may shut before January 1st as the IAM Pension Fund Trustees must review the recommendations of the Actuarial valuation report and could act as early as January 1st and cut the plan benefits for a 3rd time since 2003. It would be a masterful job by Sito of screwing over LUS by hoodwinking members to bite if Sito claims he simply shifted the LUS health care benefits to the IAMNPF by increasing the company contribution, only to have the IAM steal it once again from our members. Our members simply don't learn. This has happened before where the company puts more money into the pension then the union pension bosses come in and rob us and slash our benefits then come back and say, "Put more money into the fund so it will be back to where it was." Supper's ready again for the Union Pension Bosses. Something gotta give and that's no joke. The fund has approximately a 84% Funded ratio, as of January 2017. Not good and should dip below 80% funded ratio sometime this year.