JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[anotherdelay]

At the risk of being boring, I will repeat myself... the value of the pension will be determined in large part by the age and the years before retirement. The guy with little saved and few years ago, will prefer the pension vs. the guy who is 20 years out and maxing out the 401K.

I like "Traymahk" as he reminds of this guy with his frank commentary...

wrong and you are a disengous just like your130k a year buddy, who couldn't win his own hub station.. It will be determined by first kleine miller then the pbgc.

 

[anotherdelay]

It wouldn't be the first time a JCBA could be sued upon. Some things like surveys, etc., could be used that the negotiation team could show that some members wanted them to negotiate the pension in the JCBA. I agree with you though, it would be hard to prove a DFR if it passes in a JCBA. Although it doesn't necessarily mean that half of the TWU actually approved any JCBA since LUS is also going to be a part of any vote. However, a successful lawsuit is unlikely and your point seems to be valid.

it could be sued upon by due diligence, especially since its showing a underfunding now, if enough twu members challenge their own international. Rosen should be marched out right now. the only twu people right now supporting it, is the Intl by not commenting on it, and whom else?

 

[WeAAsles]

I thought it meant Pacific Southwest Airlines

BTW Al just to clarify. Didn't you get your first contract after Bankruptcy in 2008 and your newest agreement in 2014?

I guess SWAMT just assumes everyone on Forums is a PMAA Mechanic? And of course the thread on his page at SWA is completely dead.

 

[Jester]

wrong and you are a disengous just like your130k a year buddy, who couldn't win his own hub station.. It will be determined by first kleine miller then the pbgc.

I did the math earlier in a post with some reasonable assumptions, even slashing the monthly pension benefit by 50% from Day 1. Let's see you get 20% returns annually over 15 years from any mutual fund. Again my conditions were deliberately very narrowly defined, but it was to prove a point that if one is very close to retirement, then the pension makes more sense.

 

[anotherdelay]

I'll be putting out a tape explaining things that Prez refuses to since he is bought.[/QUOTE

I did the math earlier in a post with some reasonable assumptions, even slashing the monthly pension benefit by 50% from Day 1. Let's see you get 20% returns annually over 15 years from any mutual fund. Again my conditions were deliberately very narrowly defined, but it was to prove a point that if one is very close to retirement, then the pension makes more sense.

Okay what's kleine miller? And you have no idea, what the pension assets actually are? You do know Kleine Miller first allow cuts to the pensions, before pbgc right? so quit your bs. Renzler doesn't give two shits about you.

 

[Traymark]

reading comprehension Jester...

https://www.treasury.gov/services/Pages/Benefit-Suspensions.aspx

 

[WeAAsles]

it could be sued upon by due diligence, especially since its showing a underfunding now, if enough twu members challenge their own international. Rosen should be marched out right now. the only twu people right now supporting it, is the Intl by not commenting on it, and whom else?

And talking to yourself also damages your credibility immensely as well Tim. It's both juvenile and sneaky.

 

[WeAAsles]

wrong and you are a disengous just like your130k a year buddy, who couldn't win his own hub station.. It will be determined by first kleine miller then the pbgc.

Like here for example. anotherdelay alludes to being a TWU member in many of his posts since he now has enough of a rudimentary understanding of TWU issues from reading things. But then suddenly he seque's off to go after an IAM member knowing something about him and a supposed friend of his who didn't win his Hub Station vote?

None of this is Sherlock Holmes deducting to figure out this poster is deceptive and not who he claims to be. And his fondness for using the same words, catchphrases and lines of assaults clearly tells me at least that this is again Tim Nelson.

These almost Vaudevillian routines sometimes are quite comical I have to admit though.

 

[Traymark]

attack the messenger because you don't like the message, check

 

[WeAAsles]

reading comprehension Jester...

https://www.treasury.gov/services/Pages/Benefit-Suspensions.aspx

Ok Traymark now let's take a walk down memory lane shall we. Now assume your original plan had been to retire in 2010 or so one year after this article was written?

I'm not arguing or debating the merits of choosing any particular retirement vehicle but I will point out that the one your championing hasn't come without a few black eyes either.

Secret sauce: Di-ver-si-fy.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/retirement-dreams-disappear-with-401ks/

 

[Traymark]

My retirement vehicle is just fine , and , Me , myself and I are in 100% control of my money.

Edit to add:
Those in the IAMPF were damaged more than my 401 was.
Yes, Pension funds are in the market too, but you aren't allowed to move your money into cash if you see trouble coming.
My 401 was in cash, again, i control it , no one else.

 

[WeAAsles]

attack the messenger because you don't like the message, check

His message holds little merit if #1 it's not sincere, #2 if it doesn't paint a full picture and #3 it's all over the map and ranting as to not be concise enough to understand.

Therefore it comes off as more of an agenda rather than a truthful exploratory of facts.

 

[WeAAsles]

My retirement vehicle is just fine , and , Me , myself and I are in 100% control of my money.

So if the market were to collapse tomorrow 9AM or worse pre market you're in 100% control? And the market continues to do a dramatic nosedive from that moment on you're still in 100% control?

The market any way you cut it and no matter how you're invested in it is still nothing more than a roller coaster. And if you don't wear a seatbelt on that ride you're going to fall out and fall out hard.

BUT I am glad you at least are 100% positive that you have smooth sailing ahead all the way to the grave financially. I certainly am not going to be that presumptuous.

 

[Jester]

Okay what's kleine miller? And you have no idea, what the pension assets actually are? You do know Kleine Miller first allow cuts to the pensions, before pbgc right? so quit your bs. Renzler doesn't give two shits about you.

reading comprehension Jester...

https://www.treasury.gov/services/Pages/Benefit-Suspensions.aspx

Allow me to cut-and-paste, edit, and add a few details to what I previously posted...

If the approximate $80/month benefit, per year of service is cut to only $40/month as permitted under Kline-Miller, then let's assume the employee is one year to retirement and one year in the pension equals $480 a year ($40 x 12 months) and the company contributes $2,200 (approx. $1.05 x 2,080 hours) to the IAMNPF. Let's further assume a 15-year life expectancy after retirement.

By conducting a Net Present Value (NPV) calculation at 15 years of $480 in annual payments with an investment of $2,200 at 10%, it is still $1,450 positive. If it result was $0 NPV would be break even for the expected/required rate of return of 10%. To be more exact as to the rate of return by the IRR (Internal Rate of Return) method with those same numbers, the return is still over 20%! Better than the long-run returns of most mutual funds!

Under the scenario I created, the pension would need to drop to about $20/month per year of service, just to equal a reasonable estimate of a typical expected rate of return for a mutual fund at 10% annually. That's nearly a 75% reduction in pension benefit before one would be indifferent to either the IAMNPF or a company 401K! Does anyone realistically think the pension will be slashed down to $20/month per year of service?

Now my college professors way back when use to say that if we cannot quantify it, then we cannot prove it. As I have met my burden of proof as to my assertions, I look forward to either of you to provide some financial analysis to the contrary.

(For the record, I do NOT support the pension outside some very limited situations, as in the case of those people who are very close to retirement.)

 

[WeAAsles]

My retirement vehicle is just fine , and , Me , myself and I are in 100% control of my money.

Edit to add:
Those in the IAMPF were damaged more than my 401 was.
Yes, Pension funds are in the market too, but you aren't allowed to move your money into cash if you see trouble coming.
My 401 was in cash, again, i control it , no one else.

Thanks for pointing out the edit Traymark.

I just thought of something I want to propose to you and see what you would do?

You're Alex Garcia. You worked on the Ramp in MIA, became President of the Local, then became COPE director and finally now you're the #1 guy in the TWU leading Negotiations. You never forgot where you came from and you still have old friends back in MIA. (This is NOT meant to be Political)

Your friends maybe are telling you they're "interested" in the IAMPF. Some of the Presidents have an interest. We know the IAM has an interest of course. And finally the Company wants to offer it as well.

What would you, and let's say you completely disagree with the IAMPF as you do now and you were sitting in that chair across from the Company do?

Do you deny the voices of other people because you disagree with it? Or how do you feel it should be structured and sent out for a vote?

(Again I'm just assuming you're one of the people who've said they'll vote no if there's even a whiff of it in our TA)