JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

I get your point, I just don't think it's fair to the majority of the membership to negotiate from the stance that people don't have any money in their 401, so this will fix it for them.

P. Rez is just citing an example like you and I are. But we CAN'T just base the debate on what we do and people we know.

Let's also please not keep forgetting that the Company also gets a decision in what they want to do or what they'll agree to just like us.

 

[Traymark]

Prez, you are the one that basically said, well they aren't getting it after 18. As if to say, why should we expect it.

The constant push by you and others on the Pension fund tells me all I need to know about what the TA will look like. You know a large number do not want it, yet you're still going to go for it and hope you get 50%+1.

 

[WeAAsles]

So the F/A's get 5 years at 9.9% and we get none?

Why are you on the NC?

I would take the exact same language the F/A's got , to the letter, over the IAMPF.

Not all FA's got 9%. That's was only for over 50 who were on the clock before 2012. The rest got lower. And it's just how they structured their 17% reduction in the BK.

They shifted around pieces of the puzzle to come up with that formula at a cost in other areas of their CBA.

 

[Traymark]

I'll just add this to the conversation.
Parker is running around saying industry leading.

Southwest Airlines = 9.6% 401K match
Delta = 3% Contribution 6% match = 9% total
United = 2% Contribution 4% match = 6%total

 

[P. REZ]

Prez, you are the one that basically said, well they aren't getting it after 18. As if to say, why should we expect it.

The constant push by you and others on the Pension fund tells me all I need to know about what the TA will look like. You know a large number do not want it, yet you're still going to go for it and hope you get 50%+1.

Traymark,

No, I said it will not be a given. I am 1 vote of 24 negotiators and my vote would be both like UA. I am not pushing anything on anyone, I am doing math. You appear to not be doing math, you have shut down. I recommend doing the math.

P. Rez

 

[WeAAsles]

Prez, you are the one that basically said, well they aren't getting it after 18. As if to say, why should we expect it.

The constant push by you and others on the Pension fund tells me all I need to know about what the TA will look like. You know a large number do not want it, yet you're still going to go for it and hope you get 50%+1.

You're making assumptions here. It could very well be completely offered as a choice?

Would a guy currently in the IAMPF want us to be in it to just for some added cusion? Of course (Normal people not Tim Nelson) would. I would too just as much as I want kids to fund my SS like I funded the generation before me.

 

[Jester]

At the risk of being boring, I will repeat myself... the value of the pension will be determined in large part by the age and the years before retirement. The guy with little saved and few years ago, will prefer the pension vs. the guy who is 20 years out and maxing out the 401K.

I like "Traymahk" as he reminds of this guy with his frank commentary...

 

[WeAAsles]

Traymark,

No, I said it will not be a given. I am 1 vote of 24 negotiators and my vote would be both like UA. I am not pushing anything on anyone, I am doing math. You appear to not be doing math, you have shut down. I recommend doing the math.

P. Rez

I still like the both myself. UAL IAMPF and a 3% Match (4% would be nicer)

Since I know I'm not going to get all that on the front end IMO.

 

[swamt]

clrat the history of the twu is to say one thing to calm the masses then do what they want. case in point the vote on the association. we have had votes on contracts where we voted it down and jim little signed it anyway.

Now that's a fact...

AAL Forum Readers, Posters. and Trolls. The IAMPF was agreed to in a LOA when Ass. was formed.
My personal regret as a 40 yr. Ramper is that WE (PSA) CSM were not in the Teamster PP like our M/R Brothers/Sisters . The on going argument among some should be based on ones time frame , former PP , income/tax base , marital status, trust and believes in the different retirement scheme's available to US . My bet is the IAMPF will continue to be the Union PP voted on when WE' LL ratify JCBA 's soon ???
I laugh when seeing Legacy AA Ass. Members complain about PP 's. Your's were frozen 2013 and not thrown into PBGC. We ALL ! deserve both options working for AAL/DP who are making billions $$$

Did everyone miss this post? What does this person mean by "The IAMPF was agreed to in a LOA when Ass. was formed." Please elaborate. Because if this means that the IAMPF was agreed to be brought over to the TWU members, these guys were not aware of this as we can all see by all questions on if it is going to be in the JCBA. This post must be talking about the other asso created and not the IAM and TWU asso.

 

[WeAAsles]

Now that's a fact...



Did everyone miss this post? What does this person mean by "The IAMPF was agreed to in a LOA when Ass. was formed." Please elaborate. Because if this means that the IAMPF was agreed to be brought over to the TWU members, these guys were not aware of this as we can all see by all questions on if it is going to be in the JCBA. This post must be talking about the other asso created and not the IAM and TWU asso.

It's part of the original Association agreement that's only been posted here about a Million times now.

And you do know that PSA means Passenger Service Agent I hope? Not "Wikileaks"

Oh and uh no it's not a fact again that I'm aware of.

 

[Albert]

It's part of the original Association agreement that's only been posted here about a Million times now.

And you do know that PSA means Passenger Service Agent I hope? Not "Wikileaks"

Oh and uh no it's not a fact again that I'm aware of.

I thought it meant Pacific Southwest Airlines

 

[Tim Nelson]

If the IAMPF is included in our JCBA's and those JCBA's are passed by the Membership through majority under what basis do you feel a class action Lawsuit could be initiated? What would be your argument to the Courts?

It wouldn't be the first time a JCBA could be sued upon. Some things like surveys, etc., could be used that the negotiation team could show that some members wanted them to negotiate the pension in the JCBA. I agree with you though, it would be hard to prove a DFR if it passes in a JCBA. Although it doesn't necessarily mean that half of the TWU actually approved any JCBA since LUS is also going to be a part of any vote. However, a successful lawsuit is unlikely and your point seems to be valid.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Traymark,

Not dressing anything up, it's called math. Don't get me wrong, cuts worry me but so does the market. Give me a crystal ball. As to increasing the 5.5%, not a given considering f/a's goes back to 5.5% in 18 and pax has 5.5%. It is on the list to enhance.

P. Rez

The same things worry me as well. But the management of the IAMNPF is awful. Martinez was busted for putting in his buddy and breaching his fiduciary responsibilities and had to settle with the Feds or get cuffed. Look at the plan, when the stock market went up 20% over the past 12 months, these screwballs invested only 12% in stocks with much buried in funds. Bad move. When the stock market was a disaster, the fund manager had 33% in stocks and we got slaughtered and lost half of our benefits.

Due to the blunders last year, the IAM Trustees now have a very hard decision to make. The question will be if they cut our benefits in half again or target retirees or who?? I don't have the answer but the answer is very bad. Something will have to give because the plan is based off of a assumed 7.5% interest. With interest rates so low, we are getting POUNDED. Thus, I couldn't in good conscience tell union members that the plan isn't going to get whacked soon. I can understand your math but we were told similar math before and then got half of our benefits whacked. And the guarantees are empty.

The PBGC restricts guarantees in multi employer plans, with funds even running completely out by 2021. So either the plan invest better, get a lot more members, and interest rates hit the sky, or we are doomed.

Crumbs for me! Obviously, our IP is an anti union scab, no union person would dip into pension funds or have to settle with a federal agency cuz of $250,000 parties in Martha's Vineyard, or $1,400 bottles of wine. So Sad, Pat and what's even sadder is that you can't stand up and admit that our IP was a thief or that another cut is immanent.

Go ahead and keep dressing up the IAMNP and I'll keep reminding you how you and other union bosses haven't stood up and called out those who robbed us or the future cut that is destined.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You're making assumptions here. It could very well be completely offered as a choice?

Would a guy currently in the IAMPF want us to be in it to just for some added cusion? Of course (Normal people not Tim Nelson) would. I would too just as much as I want kids to fund my SS like I funded the generation before me.

I have an interest and yes I wouldn't mind 16,000 TWU peeps in my pension as it will help my interest. But I'm not going to keep information about the plan from people (as Prez or others do, ie., those who are already getting 2 pensions and not coming completely clean on the IAMNPF). The IAMNPF is a real sh*t storm.

I'll be putting out a tape explaining things that Prez refuses to since he is bought. I believe in choice. TWU peeps should have a choice. If someone wants to dump their money into the IAMNPF after they were fully disclosed of all information then great for me! But I don't wish this lame duck on any worker.

And you are correct, I'm prolly the only LUS who is honest enough to tell a brother about the pitfalls and the disaster coming in this plan.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have an interest and yes I wouldn't mind 16,000 TWU peeps in my pension as it will help my interest. But I'm not going to keep information about the plan from people (as Prez or others do, ie., those who are already getting 2 pensions and not coming completely clean on the IAMNPF). The IAMNPF is a real sh*t storm.

I'll be putting out a tape explaining things that Prez refuses to since he is bought. I believe in choice. TWU peeps should have a choice. If someone wants to dump their money into the IAMNPF after they were fully disclosed of all information then great for me! But I don't wish this lame duck on any worker.

Tim I LOVE information. But I LOVE factual and complete information even more and especially when that information has to do with money. Or money that may eventually have my name stamped on it.

You have and share good information but the main problem at least for me is how you always have to either pad the distress or pepper it with words to illicit emotions that betray you for me.

Whatever true motives or agendas you have just don't come across as sincere. I think again totally my opinion that you would be far more successful in your motivations if you weren't always out to make everything out to be so dramatic like a bad Shakespearean Theater production.

The IAMPF had/has its issues and I have not shied away at all from both listening, reading and sharing those issues. But again I have extreme difficulty taking what you write seriously with all the embellishments. (Please note where you and I diverge)