I doubt that strongly, you sound naive and I know you are smarter than that,why not have you in the room then? I'm just curious if you will speak up if they come back with a contract you don't approve of and after all this time if you are not pissed being on the outside looking in you are not human
JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet
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Tim Nelson
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It's anyone's guess if there are any backdoor deals. I hope CB is correct. But with United, Sito had them all [entire eboard] vote on a 'cheat sheet' and they never were given the time to actually read the entire contract that they signed. When the members got the entire contract, and I pointed out the absurdities of it, they rejected it. The members actually counted the ballots in that TA1 at United. However, Sito struck back and told Klemm to make sure that the members didn't count the ballots in TA2 at United, so nobody was flown in and only Sito's hand picked counted [if they counted at all]. Sito even insisted with Delaney to stick Klemm on the negotiation team. Moral to story is that any JCBA will most likely pass with this bunch. Remember, they haven't had one single official non supervised officer election since 2008. Believe me. Did any of them speak out about all the rights this district has violated? Nope. Has any of them spoken out against Martinez being busted by ERISA for hiring his buddy to be the fund manager of the Pension fund? Nope. And I C Blocked them from pissing on our rights last year. After I postponed the last election and forced upon them a new election next January, that ought to smack some sense into them finally and force them to be more accountable. Believe me if they were all in office for 4 more years, you would have already lost your health care and more concessions. Sad.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
As far as the pension plan. It is mismanaged. Back in 2009/2010 when the stock market was south, the dopes had 33% of our funds in stocks. In the last year, when stocks have done super, they only had 12% in stocks. We didn't get any bounce at all.
Brother Rezler says that we will know what the pension fund will pay out, that is fake news. Nobody knows. Either Pat is being intellectually dishonest or he is just ignorant.
The reality is that the last time that the pension was cut, the IAM Trustees said that it had to protect the future of the plan and cut the benefits when the plan was at 99.7% funded and 97% at the announced time.
Now, the pension fund is only 89% funded as of December 31, 2016. It's lowest point in the last 20 years. The actuary smoothed out figure is 95.9% which averages fluctuations and had a valuation date of January 1, 2016 (over 1 year ago). The fair market value is a more current snapshot, i.e., December 31, 2016 and is only 89%. So, we can be certain that the slope is downward. Oftentimes, fluctuations may be upward or downward from any given point in time 'snapshot' value. However, when you look at the plan documents and carefully review them off of the Plan 5500 documents, you have to wonder why the Trustees haven't already acted upon the plan a 3rd time since 2003 and reduced benefits. I believe it is because of International elections but that is only a guess. Thus, the plan has not only gone from 108% funded in 2010 after some changes, to 89% in 2017. A cut is coming, yet Brother Rezler pre-empts a certain cut by suggesting that any member will know how much the pension will pay out. Really? Crystal balls anyone? Nobody knows. A very fair assessment would be to start with the current benefits and assume something much much less.
Due to the stealing and robbing of our money by the IAM trustees, the AGC's (who have 2 pensions btw) talk stupid **** and talk down to people and say "Hell, we will just ask the company to put more money into your IAMPF so it can get back up to where it was." The problem with that is that when the company dumps more of OUR money into the IAMPF, the IAM steals more. I'm not referring to the $1,600 bottles of wine and Martha Vineyard $250,000 parties on our dime, but referring to the IAM Trustees just cutting our benefits again. So they are stealing our money from the company. And there are no guarantees other than suspensions, cuts, offsets, etc.
The problem is two fold.
1. Baby boomers. Even if the TWU drops 16,000 peeps in, many are 50+ years old. Although their pension amount would be small, they will be collecting in another decade. We have to organize more groups but the IAM doesn't know how to organize. The last 3 big campaigns have been a complete disaster because of guys who have no idea what on earth they are doing. At Delta, 6,000 cards were forged and the FBI has an ongoing investigation due to the NMB contacting the Justice Department.
At Boeing, SC, they only got 22% of the vote. Dude's, you can get 22% if you don't even make any phone calls. LMAO. And at JetBlue, they have insisted on blowing our money and causing a complete disaster. And they don't care because if they did organize JetBlue, management would simply contract out all stations immediately or the IAM maybe could pimp them for dues and sign a awful contract for JFK like they hosed FLL at spirit. So Sad. So, the IAMPF is not going to tap into new members, it has to try to get current members in the plan. But the math doesn't lie. People are retiring and the age is getting older.
2. Interest rates. Did any of you read the 5500 plan documents? I didn't think so. The plan assumes a 7.5% interest rate. The rate isn't half of that now. The problem moving forward is that the plan assets is trending "Steeply" downward as the country's interest rates are half of 7.5% and no relief in sight other than maybe a 1/4 pt in July. So, the problem is a severe and present economic one that isn't just affecting the IAM Pension fund but all multi employer plans.
Deal me out!
Brother Rezler says that we will know what the pension fund will pay out, that is fake news. Nobody knows. Either Pat is being intellectually dishonest or he is just ignorant.
The reality is that the last time that the pension was cut, the IAM Trustees said that it had to protect the future of the plan and cut the benefits when the plan was at 99.7% funded and 97% at the announced time.
Now, the pension fund is only 89% funded as of December 31, 2016. It's lowest point in the last 20 years. The actuary smoothed out figure is 95.9% which averages fluctuations and had a valuation date of January 1, 2016 (over 1 year ago). The fair market value is a more current snapshot, i.e., December 31, 2016 and is only 89%. So, we can be certain that the slope is downward. Oftentimes, fluctuations may be upward or downward from any given point in time 'snapshot' value. However, when you look at the plan documents and carefully review them off of the Plan 5500 documents, you have to wonder why the Trustees haven't already acted upon the plan a 3rd time since 2003 and reduced benefits. I believe it is because of International elections but that is only a guess. Thus, the plan has not only gone from 108% funded in 2010 after some changes, to 89% in 2017. A cut is coming, yet Brother Rezler pre-empts a certain cut by suggesting that any member will know how much the pension will pay out. Really? Crystal balls anyone? Nobody knows. A very fair assessment would be to start with the current benefits and assume something much much less.
Due to the stealing and robbing of our money by the IAM trustees, the AGC's (who have 2 pensions btw) talk stupid **** and talk down to people and say "Hell, we will just ask the company to put more money into your IAMPF so it can get back up to where it was." The problem with that is that when the company dumps more of OUR money into the IAMPF, the IAM steals more. I'm not referring to the $1,600 bottles of wine and Martha Vineyard $250,000 parties on our dime, but referring to the IAM Trustees just cutting our benefits again. So they are stealing our money from the company. And there are no guarantees other than suspensions, cuts, offsets, etc.
The problem is two fold.
1. Baby boomers. Even if the TWU drops 16,000 peeps in, many are 50+ years old. Although their pension amount would be small, they will be collecting in another decade. We have to organize more groups but the IAM doesn't know how to organize. The last 3 big campaigns have been a complete disaster because of guys who have no idea what on earth they are doing. At Delta, 6,000 cards were forged and the FBI has an ongoing investigation due to the NMB contacting the Justice Department.
At Boeing, SC, they only got 22% of the vote. Dude's, you can get 22% if you don't even make any phone calls. LMAO. And at JetBlue, they have insisted on blowing our money and causing a complete disaster. And they don't care because if they did organize JetBlue, management would simply contract out all stations immediately or the IAM maybe could pimp them for dues and sign a awful contract for JFK like they hosed FLL at spirit. So Sad. So, the IAMPF is not going to tap into new members, it has to try to get current members in the plan. But the math doesn't lie. People are retiring and the age is getting older.
2. Interest rates. Did any of you read the 5500 plan documents? I didn't think so. The plan assumes a 7.5% interest rate. The rate isn't half of that now. The problem moving forward is that the plan assets is trending "Steeply" downward as the country's interest rates are half of 7.5% and no relief in sight other than maybe a 1/4 pt in July. So, the problem is a severe and present economic one that isn't just affecting the IAM Pension fund but all multi employer plans.
Deal me out!
charlie Brown
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Albert
The beauty about this site is you are entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else. I don't worry about whether people think I'm naive or not, or even if they think I'm not human, I try to come on and answer as many questions as I can for the members. But no I'm not pissed that we aren't in the room. The 6 IAM guys knew that we would get to this point to where we wouldn't be in the room. It's the same way we finished up the last contract we did. Why? One of the main reason is to cut down on all the voices in the room. The IAM side knows that it worked well last time. And I can also tell you i have personally been contacted several times either in person or by phone by the executive team to go over issues they are dealing with. Can't say that I wouldn't prefer to be in there. But like I said. This was expected from the IAM side. And anyone that knows me will tell you that i dont or won't have a problem speaking up if I don't like something that they come back with. I don't know anyone on our team on the IAM side that would have a issue speaking up. We did last contract, and they went back in several times and tweeked the issues that we had problems with. But that doesn't mean we will get everything. I've always said we shouldn't get everything we are asking for, because if you do, then you weren't asking for enough. Having so many people in the room can lead to a lot of 3 and 4 conversations at a time going on without much progress. That's just how it goes, and it's just as much the companies fault when that happens as the unions. Remember they too have a much smaller team now. Very good progress for fleet was made last time with this executive team. But the issues they were going over was relayed to the whole team to see if we were ok with it. That's as real as I can be with you on what I think about the executive team. Again we knew it would be this way on the IAM side.
CB Sorry to be so cynical but the spin put on that first UAL contract I lost trust in my union. After all the raves from those in charge to have it amended later, the company pretty much admitting it sucked
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AANOTOK
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That is indeed worrisome, and I would (ask) CB if in his personal opinion with Lombardo being forced out (so the concensus is), will that have any affect on the negotiations either negatively, positively or length of time it takes. The New TWU International President will not partake in face to face negotiations (still considered "Executive Sessions"?) but will monitor and strategize from afar. A bit different from the original plan, obviously.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
He stood down on united. Believe me. And none of then stood up against the iam for buying $1,600 bottles of wine. And cB doesnt stand up against violations of members rights either. I like cb and he is prolly one of the better ones but dont think for one minute he will step out. Money talks.
charlie Brown
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No need to apologize. Like I said everyone is allowed their opinions. And I completely understand about the trust factor. The main reason I got involved years ago was due to me not trusting the folks that represented our members. Not saying it was all their fault. It was partly my fault for believing in rumors and listening to people that liked to just spread crap. But let's face it. If you can't trust who is in there on your behalf, then everything is going to be a big deal.
charlie Brown
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Tim
Don't speak of things you know nothing about. Good thing for you in your position is you get to spout anything on here whether it's true or not. Obviously you are in campaign mode already. But with all due respect, let's not go there yet. While you know I love a good debate, I'm sure that 99% of the TWU folks could care less about the IAM politics. And even most of the IAM could care less at this time. There will be a time for all that when it gets here. Let's stick to negotiation issues which I believe most on here really care about.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
lol. nah, not politics. I haven't posted in a while and there are no elections for quite a while. The reason why I'm on here is I got a nasty little letter from the IAMPF that you seem to take pretty lightly. Not surprised there. And I hate when you guys lie and say that the members will know the benefit amounts when the JCBA comes out. Sorry, but neither you or brother rez will know that until the Trustees cut the plan again. If you want a good debate, then keep politics out of it and let's have it at with the IAMPF. Deal?
I really wish the IAMNPF was just political but it's not. That pension fund has hosed all of your members once before and now dragging arse again and will certainly need another cut soon. Am I wrong to assume that you and Rez will get out the dog and pony show selling the IAMNPF guarantees and benefit amounts? Yes or No?
And BTW, bro, I was in a nice position but I never stood down. And I certainly hope that Sito has his economist [insert his son] telling him that the excise tax on health care is now on shaky ground. Leverage to the union. Simply no reason to lose our health care or anything with profits. At least in a LUS perspective. Obviously, the company wants the displacement protections gone. But we have displacement protection, great health care, pay raises, decent scope, etc., and need to gain from there.
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charlie Brown
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charlie Brown
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Tim
Plz show me a post that I have ever told someone they were guaranteed something in the pension. Please. Prove me wrong right now for all to see and witness. That's my point with you. You get to post anything you want with nothing to back it up. The good news is that very few believe you anymore. But again, anyone that knows me knows that from the very beginning I argued against the people telling our members that it was guaranteed. In fact, I probably argued it more than anyone else at the time. It pissed me off. But you want to post something like the last post, that's ive lied and guaranteed something on the pension. Again gain some credibility with me and post where I've made that statement. And debate you on the pension? Debate what? I am as concerned about it as you are. I'm also concerned about 401k,s and social security. People think they can control their 401k,s? But yet probably 90% of the people can't even tell you what their fees are on their 401k,s. Or have no Idea just how a percentage point in fees can change your savings rate by thousands. But I received the same letter you did about the pension. In fact, if you read my last email briefing I put out Sunday, I have had lots of questions about it. And rightfully so. I am as concerned about it as you are.
Plz show me a post that I have ever told someone they were guaranteed something in the pension. Please. Prove me wrong right now for all to see and witness. That's my point with you. You get to post anything you want with nothing to back it up. The good news is that very few believe you anymore. But again, anyone that knows me knows that from the very beginning I argued against the people telling our members that it was guaranteed. In fact, I probably argued it more than anyone else at the time. It pissed me off. But you want to post something like the last post, that's ive lied and guaranteed something on the pension. Again gain some credibility with me and post where I've made that statement. And debate you on the pension? Debate what? I am as concerned about it as you are. I'm also concerned about 401k,s and social security. People think they can control their 401k,s? But yet probably 90% of the people can't even tell you what their fees are on their 401k,s. Or have no Idea just how a percentage point in fees can change your savings rate by thousands. But I received the same letter you did about the pension. In fact, if you read my last email briefing I put out Sunday, I have had lots of questions about it. And rightfully so. I am as concerned about it as you are.
bob@las-AA
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CB
What is the cost per individual to be in the IAM pension? I know that the IAM dues are like $80 per month, but what other costs to the individual of the pension?
What is the cost per individual to be in the IAM pension? I know that the IAM dues are like $80 per month, but what other costs to the individual of the pension?
charlie Brown
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Well I have to admit that I am concerned about it. But I also feel that the TWU side might have had issues with their side of the executive team. So I can only hope that they will now feel better about their side and things will be even better. It's a old saying, but really " only time will tell"
charlie Brown
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Bob
Dues are usually between 60-68 a month in most locals. It does vary, and maybe one is out there with 80 a month, but not sure who. But I'm not sure I understand your question. It is negotiated on how much hourly the company puts into the pension on the members behalf.
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