JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

The # 2 guy in the TWU.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/tr...nt-give-a-shite-what-you-think-of-him-9820041

 

[Jester]

I will admit that I am mixed about the whole Lead/Crew Chief option. There was a reason as to why so many people refused to become PHX Leads and many who did become Leads were soon to be terminated, quickly stepped down, as it was difficult position to have the responsibility of the gate but no authority over anything or anyone, while having Management breathing down their necks. Team could tell a Lead to go F-off about some instruction and Management would hold the Leads responsible in it was a failure of Leadership without much consequence to the team.

Conversely based upon my discussions with AA guys, the Crew Chiefs need not demonstrate any abilities for the position as it is based upon seniority and if Management steps into get something done with a crew, then it is a violation of the CBA as orders must be given by a Crew Chief. It strikes me as a conflict as both the Chiefs and Crews to be working under the same CBA and in the same union while one party is subordinate to another. Furthermore, it is an inefficient system whereas the Chiefs are only responsible for loading a flight and not part of unloading a flight.

 

[Albert]

I will admit that I am mixed about the whole Lead/Crew Chief option. There was a reason as to why so many people refused to become PHX Leads and many who did become Leads were soon to be terminated, quickly stepped down, as it was difficult position to have the responsibility of the gate but no authority over anything or anyone, while having Management breathing down their necks. Team could tell a Lead to go F-off about some instruction and Management would hold the Leads responsible in it was a failure of Leadership without much consequence to the team.

Conversely based upon my discussions with AA guys, the Crew Chiefs need not demonstrate any abilities for the position as it is based upon seniority and if Management steps into get something done with a crew, then it is a violation of the CBA as orders must be given by a Crew Chief. It strikes me as a conflict as both the Chiefs and Crews to be working under the same CBA and in the same union while one party is subordinate to another. Furthermore, it is an inefficient system whereas the Chiefs are only responsible for loading a flight and not part of unloading a flight.

Jester since the IAM got in (way before the US/AW merger) it has always been seniority based. I don't understand what you are saying. In my years I have never seen a lead get terminated for a poor job. I've seen leads get in trouble for other things and simply forced to step down to agent. You really need to send people to shop steward training and I'm not a big union guy. Perhaps the IAM doesn't get out west much

 

[Jester]

I don't understand what you are saying. In my years I have never seen a lead get terminated for a poor job.

Load discrepancies, late flight pushes, crews not at assigned gates (Lead's fault, ya know), aircraft damage (always the Leads fault regardless), not having gate readied... all performance issues, but that causes a Level 3, and while technically correct insofar the Lead wasn't terminated after losing their qualifications, their job now has one foot in the grave with the other foot on a graphite powdered infused banana peel.

 

[WeAAsles]

I will admit that I am mixed about the whole Lead/Crew Chief option. There was a reason as to why so many people refused to become PHX Leads and many who did become Leads were soon to be terminated, quickly stepped down, as it was difficult position to have the responsibility of the gate but no authority over anything or anyone, while having Management breathing down their necks. Team could tell a Lead to go F-off about some instruction and Management would hold the Leads responsible in it was a failure of Leadership without much consequence to the team.

Conversely based upon my discussions with AA guys, the Crew Chiefs need not demonstrate any abilities for the position as it is based upon seniority and if Management steps into get something done with a crew, then it is a violation of the CBA as orders must be given by a Crew Chief. It strikes me as a conflict as both the Chiefs and Crews to be working under the same CBA and in the same union while one party is subordinate to another. Furthermore, it is an inefficient system whereas the Chiefs are only responsible for loading a flight and not part of unloading a flight.

Jester I don't know where you're getting any of this stuff either? To become a Crew Chief you have to study for it and then take both a written and practical exam. A Training CC will tail you to sign off that you know what you're doing. And the CC assists the crew on both the inbound and the outbound. He might scan, bring up the escorts or water the plane. Sometimes the CC may even go look for a tow bar if we need one? All depends on the CC of course.

As far as inefficient. Well let's see. The TWU was voted in at AA in 1947 and I'm sure they have had CC's probably almost just as long. So when can you remind me did the IAM first organize you?

 

[Albert]

Jester I don't know where you're getting any of this stuff either? To become a Crew Cheif you have to study for it and then take both a written and practical exam. A Training CC will tail you to sign off that you know what you're doing. And the CC assists the crew on both the inbound and the outbound. He might scan, bring up the escorts or water the plane. Sometimes the CC may even go look for a tow bar if we need one? All depends on the CC of course.

As far as inefficient. Well let's see. The TWU was voted in at AA in 1947 and I'm sure they have had CC's probably almost just as long. So when can you remind me did the IAM first organize you?

Weez are you kidding about a test with us it's just seniority and don't be on any levels. why do you think they have leads with such low seniority

 

[WeAAsles]

Load discrepancies, late flight pushes, crews not at assigned gates (Lead's fault, ya know), aircraft damage (always the Leads fault regardless), not having gate readied... all performance issues, but that causes a Level 3, and while technically correct insofar the Lead wasn't terminated after losing their qualifications, their job now has one foot in the grave with the other foot on a graphite powdered infused banana peel.

Jester I'm sorry but I have to be honest here. All the stories I hear coming out of PHX just makes the place sound like one big cluster puck.

It HAS to be the America West philosophy that has become ingrained there?

 

[Albert]

Load discrepancies, late flight pushes, crews not at assigned gates (Lead's fault, ya know), aircraft damage (always the Leads fault regardless), not having gate readied... all performance issues, but that causes a Level 3, and while technically correct insofar the Lead wasn't terminated after losing their qualifications, their job now has one foot in the grave with the other foot on a graphite powdered infused banana peel.

At times leads could be working 2 or 3 gates load discrpancies and delays everyone has to answer. PHX must be the only IAM station that this is going on

 

[Jester]

Jester I don't know where you're getting any of this stuff either? To become a Crew Cheif you have to study for it and then take both a written and practical exam. A Training CC will tail you to sign off that you know what you're doing. And the CC assists the crew on both the inbound and the outbound. He might scan, bring up the escorts or water the plane. Sometimes the CC may even go look for a tow bar if we need one? All depends on the CC of course.

As far as inefficient. Well let's see. The TWU was voted in at AA in 1947 and I'm sure they have had CC's probably almost just as long. So when can you remind me did the IAM first organize you?

Stories I am hearing that their are leads who are generally known to be fat, lazy and stupid as clerks and don't improve as CCs, but becomes more problematic as now they in are charge of others, but hey, they have the highest seniority so now they are "qualified" with little oversight.

In terms of the IAM "organizing" America West, it was really more of a hostile take-over with the merger of US and AW around 2005(?) as America West was originally TWU.

 

[Albert]

Jester I don't know where you're getting any of this stuff either? To become a Crew Cheif you have to study for it and then take both a written and practical exam. A Training CC will tail you to sign off that you know what you're doing. And the CC assists the crew on both the inbound and the outbound. He might scan, bring up the escorts or water the plane. Sometimes the CC may even go look for a tow bar if we need one? All depends on the CC of course.

As far as inefficient. Well let's see. The TWU was voted in at AA in 1947 and I'm sure they have had CC's probably almost just as long. So when can you remind me did the IAM first organize you?

Weez here the TWU crew chiefs scan and close out the flights

 

[NYer]

I will admit that I am mixed about the whole Lead/Crew Chief option. There was a reason as to why so many people refused to become PHX Leads and many who did become Leads were soon to be terminated, quickly stepped down, as it was difficult position to have the responsibility of the gate but no authority over anything or anyone, while having Management breathing down their necks. Team could tell a Lead to go F-off about some instruction and Management would hold the Leads responsible in it was a failure of Leadership without much consequence to the team.

Conversely based upon my discussions with AA guys, the Crew Chiefs need not demonstrate any abilities for the position as it is based upon seniority and if Management steps into get something done with a crew, then it is a violation of the CBA as orders must be given by a Crew Chief. It strikes me as a conflict as both the Chiefs and Crews to be working under the same CBA and in the same union while one party is subordinate to another. Furthermore, it is an inefficient system whereas the Chiefs are only responsible for loading a flight and not part of unloading a flight.

On the TWU side, a Crew Chief gets his position by seniority, but there is a probationary period to ensure the person can call with the added responsibilities.

In MIA, we had the problem of the CC being blamed for most things that happened on the gate, but that turned over the past year or so. It turned because management hasn't been allowed to just blame the CC without being held accountable to what they're responsible for, which is to ensure everyone follows the set procedures. As you say, CC's can't discipline so that task needs to be done by the management team and can't be laid at the feet of the CC.

CC write ups has fallen more than 80%.

 

[Albert]

Stories I am hearing that their are leads who are generally known to be fat, lazy and stupid as clerks and don't improve as CCs, but becomes more problematic as now they in are charge of others, but hey, they have the highest seniority so now they are "qualified" with little oversight.

In terms of the IAM "organizing" America West, it was really more of a hostile take-over with the merger of US and AW around 2005(?) as America West was originally TWU.

Never heard any complaints other than that stupid incident in PHL. Jester you guys were topping out a $14 per hour

 

[Albert]

On the TWU side, a Crew Chief gets his position by seniority, but there is a probationary period to ensure the person can call with the added responsibilities.

In MIA, we had the problem of the CC being blamed for most things that happened on the gate, but that turned over the past year or so. It turned because management hasn't been allowed to just blame the CC without being held accountable to what they're responsible for, which is to ensure everyone follows the set procedures. As you say, CC's can't discipline so that task needs to be done by the management team and can't be laid at the feet of the CC.

CC write ups has fallen more than 80%.

Perhaps that is why the explosion of managers. It doesn't seem to be to efficient though

 

[WeAAsles]

Stories I am hearing that their are leads who are generally known to be fat, lazy and stupid as clerks and don't improve as CCs, but becomes more problematic as now they in are charge of others, but hey, they have the highest seniority so now they are "qualified" with little oversight.

In terms of the IAM "organizing" America West, it was really more of a hostile take-over with the merger of US and AW around 2005(?) as America West was originally TWU.

The stories you're hearing are "somewhat" true but they are being told to you about a small minority and I'm also sure by jealous junior members who don't have the time to become CC's or others who don't have the cajones to hop into it themselves.

Have you ever had CC's at AMW or is your only experience with leads? When did the TWU organize AMW and what was your top out before the merger?

 

[Albert]

The # 2 guy in the TWU.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/tr...nt-give-a-shite-what-you-think-of-him-9820041

Weez do you believe in the theory of evolution?