JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Did you expose yourself in the AMTS post 1911?

Would you care to be more specific?

 

[Albert]

Would you care to be more specific?

Thought you weren't an AA employee?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I worked for American Airlines for over a decade.

My wife is a current employee.

In fact she is third generation American Airlines.

So believe me when I tell you I want you to get the best contract possible.

American Airlines vacation and sick time are horrendous. They are both sub par and outdated. Instead of holidays (8 days a year at best), which are less flexible and in my opinion less important, you should be hammering the UNION on those (sick and vacation) items.

Hell (full time) Walmart employees get better vacation time than you do.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

walmart workers didn't give concessions in 2003 and the parent company didn't file for bk in 2011.

just on vc, all things being equal...we should be on 8 weeks max. we lost 1 week in 1995, 1 week in 2003 and 1 week from the 2011 bk. we were on 12 sk days a year, with accumulating hrs - up to 1,200 hrs i believe, prior to all the nonsense.

now, if the association doesn't increase this and that, sure, i'd blame them. this company is a major beneficiary of the shale revolution and they will tell anyone who'll listen, that going forward, a bad year means less income...not a loss.

i'm willing to give a t/a a chance.

 

[NYer]

walmart workers didn't give concessions in 2003 and the parent company didn't file for bk in 2011.

just on vc, all things being equal...we should be on 8 weeks max. we lost 1 week in 1995, 1 week in 2003 and 1 week from the 2011 bk. we were on 12 sk days a year, with accumulating hrs - up to 1,200 hrs i believe, prior to all the nonsense.

now, if the association doesn't increase this and that, sure, i'd blame them. this company is a major beneficiary of the shale revolution and they will tell anyone who'll listen, that going forward, a bad year means less income...not a loss.

i'm willing to give a t/a a chance.

To get a realistic picture of where we may end up, you'd need to take a look at industry comparisons from today. Unless other groups have 8 weeks and 12 sick days, it will be challenging to reach those heights. It is especially true in a situation of a JCBA where almost every change in language may add cost to the overall CBA.

If the proper expectation isn't part of the JCBA dialogue, then the likelihood of there being opposition to the JCBA are heightened, especially when you consider the possibility of a major change to Scope and Medical on the LUS side.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

walmart workers didn't give concessions in 2003 and the parent company didn't file for bk in 2011.

Walmart is also non skilled labor and non UNIONized.

now, if the association doesn't increase this and that, sure, i'd blame them. this company is a major beneficiary of the shale revolution and they will tell anyone who'll listen, that going forward, a bad year means less income...not a loss.

Not increase, restore.

 

[WeAAsles]

walmart workers didn't give concessions in 2003 and the parent company didn't file for bk in 2011.

just on vc, all things being equal...we should be on 8 weeks max. we lost 1 week in 1995, 1 week in 2003 and 1 week from the 2011 bk. we were on 12 sk days a year, with accumulating hrs - up to 1,200 hrs i believe, prior to all the nonsense.

now, if the association doesn't increase this and that, sure, i'd blame them. this company is a major beneficiary of the shale revolution and they will tell anyone who'll listen, that going forward, a bad year means less income...not a loss.

i'm willing to give a t/a a chance.

The average Walmart Sales Asociate and Cashier pay is in the low $9.00 per hour. I think in that case it's fairly easy and inexpensive to compensate them for more PTO than you and I. But yes I would like to see a strengthening in those areas as well.

But if that didn't wind up being the case then a more robust formula for picking up OT at a premium second day off rate such as the IAM side currently enjoys would allow more financial flexibility to take time off however you feel through Shift Swaps.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Walmart-Salaries-E715.htm

 

[WeAAsles]

UAL Ramp has a total of 6 weeks vacation.
SWA Ramp has a total of 5 weeks vacation.
US Ramp only just secured a 5th week on their standalone CBA in 2014.

AA Agents also have 5 weeks vacation.

But the Agents have an agreement that I like. They have the ability to exchange their Holliday pay for extra DAT days which if all were exchanged gives them an extra 2 weeks vacation.

The choice to do that may not be to everyone's liking but it's a nice contractual flexibility to have.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

To get a realistic picture of where we may end up, you'd need to take a look at industry comparisons from today. Unless other groups have 8 weeks and 12 sick days, it will be challenging to reach those heights. It is especially true in a situation of a JCBA where almost every change in language may add cost to the overall CBA.

If the proper expectation isn't part of the JCBA dialogue, then the likelihood of there being opposition to the JCBA are heightened, especially when you consider the possibility of a major change to Scope and Medical on the LUS side.

yup..

if we don't get 8 or 9 weeks VC, that isn't a deal breaker for me. things happened and now we are at 5 weeks. my post wasn't trying to 'pile on' the union for currently having 5 weeks.

NYer, you know that what the association asks for isn't written in stone. at that level is there protocol, precedent and manners and 3% over 'the best' has been the established norm over decades? maybe it was. we are now talking a new era in the airline industry - the shale oil revolution and collecting ancillary fees, the loudest braggart of this new norm being aa, itself.

i know that aa tried to follow the protocol and precedent of others and showed no manners when they wished to terminate my pension...got some push-back from the pbgc, caved in to the pbgc/govt., and then outrageously tried to spin the developments as aa doing me a favor by freezing and not terminating my pension.

let's check our manners and protocol at the door, as aa has done.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Not increase, restore.

i prefer your terminology to mine, but i know it's not happening. if we don't get an additional 2-3 weeks, that wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The average Walmart Sales Asociate and Cashier pay is in the low $9.00 per hour. I think in that case it's fairly easy and inexpensive to compensate them for more PTO than you and I. But yes I would like to see a strengthening in those areas as well.

But if that didn't wind up being the case then a more robust formula for picking up OT at a premium second day off rate such as the IAM side currently enjoys would allow more financial flexibility to take time off however you feel through Shift Swaps.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Walmart-Salaries-E715.htm

should i take a chance and try to have a dialogue with you? yes, i don't think wal-mart is the greatest comparison to aa and i would guess that the smiley faces would rather earn $30+ and hr and lose 2 weeks VC than work for the generous walton family.

UAL Ramp has a total of 6 weeks vacation.
SWA Ramp has a total of 5 weeks vacation.
US Ramp only just secured a 5th week on their standalone CBA in 2014.

AA Agents also have 5 weeks vacation.

But the Agents have an agreement that I like. They have the ability to exchange their Holliday pay for extra DAT days which if all were exchanged gives them an extra 2 weeks vacation.

The choice to do that may not be to everyone's liking but it's a nice contractual flexibility to have.

yes and yes. i don't expect to have 8 or 9 weeks VC. i'm also aware of the ticket agents' agreement and i don't know anyone in fleet service that doesn't like it.

at a personal level, i hope the CS article is more strict/stringent than it is now. the company seems to be very aware of corruption and is eager to get rid of 'specialized' shifts and seem to believe that if 500 fscs were in a 'pool', they can be as productive as factory workers. to me, the big shooters from america west or us air need to understand that this industry isn't like running a factory and having banks/intl. isn't running a phx operation.

some of these guys are learning on the fly. when they get it right, aa will be in even better shape.

 

[AANOTOK]

Not sure I understand this comment, "at a personal level, i hope the CS article is more strict/stringent than it is now", maybe I'm missing something or just don't understand.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

well, like you need to work at least 50% of your actual bid shift...etc. stuff like that.

what i have seen happen in my station...PTers bid am shifts in good work areas with weekends off. they then promptly corrupt the shift by CSing off 3-4 days a week to a handful of FTers who play the CS roulette wheel very well. those FTers, just by coincidence, seem to be friends with every c/c and also just by chance, always have an additional fresh cup of coffee in their other hand for the c/c.

to me, the company itself, increased corruption by having a very liberal CS policy. the scammers are called out, but they don't care. there's no shame when you want to be at work for 14 hrs a day and then try to sit in a chair all day for those 14 hrs. they have the rules on their side.

 

[WeAAsles]

well, like you need to work at least 50% of your actual bid shift...etc. stuff like that.

what i have seen happen in my station...PTers bid am shifts in good work areas with weekends off. they then promptly corrupt the shift by CSing off 3-4 days a week to a handful of FTers who play the CS roulette wheel very well. those FTers, just by coincidence, seem to be friends with every c/c and also just by chance, always have an additional fresh cup of coffee in their other hand for the c/c.

to me, the company itself, increased corruption by having a very liberal CS policy. the scammers are called out, but they don't care. there's no shame when you want to be at work for 14 hrs a day and then try to sit in a chair all day for those 14 hrs. they have the rules on their side.

Yes we can have a dialogue. And the reason you site is exactly the reason why both the policies and language have gotten more and more tight over the years and are probably going to be even tighter if the rumors are true.

You're 100% correct that people are doing what you said and they don't care at all in the slightest. But they'll be the first ones screaming when changes come. Those changes are their own damn fault.

I'm not going to say that I would welcome a stricter language to come down the pipe but having been a victim of those "brokers" more than once myself, I certainly understand it.

And to the other response. If we had a deal where we could exchange our Hollidays for DAT days I wouldn't be paid for a Holliday for the rest of my career. (Just so long as those DAT's weren't too restrictive)

 

[WeAAsles]

Here's another thing I love about our dear old CS brokers. We have a CS FB page here in MIA. If you put a CS up they will many times scarf it right up.

Next thing you know you're getting a PM telling you that they can no longer work it but they have someone else who can. They want you to take it out of the system so they can give it to this "other" guy.

So you think your CS is gone days in advance and next thing you know some A hole is bothering you personally to go along with his scam.

I don't mind people hustling to try and make cash. But I do get pissed off when they include me in their hustles.

(Oh and you better hope there really is some "other" guy that's going to take it or you're SOOL)