JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[pjirish317]

Who is thinking with selfish notions? And yes, I am in the group of people that really doesnt care how long this takes, as long as its done right. And yes, I thought the same before we got the raise. The folks on the street, i agree we should try and get them back to work ASAP. Yes, the AGC's handle grievances at the Step 3 and above. The local grievance committee handles the steps 1 and 2, and a shop steward or grievance committee person can handle the verbal step. I just want it done right the first time with no "we will get it next round", "live to fight another day", "this is the best you're gonna get", cliche`s. I have had and always will have faith in our NC, but to many cooks in the kitchen messes things up.

 

[NYer]

Who is thinking with selfish notions? And yes, I am in the group of people that really doesnt care how long this takes, as long as its done right. And yes, I thought the same before we got the raise. The folks on the street, i agree we should try and get them back to work ASAP. Yes, the AGC's handle grievances at the Step 3 and above. The local grievance committee handles the steps 1 and 2, and a shop steward or grievance committee person can handle the verbal step. I just want it done right the first time with no "we will get it next round", "live to fight another day", "this is the best you're gonna get", cliche`s. I have had and always will have faith in our NC, but to many cooks in the kitchen messes things up.

If most Members were getting more robust information, the support would probably be better than it currently is. If they knew the challenges faced by the NC and had a better idea of the differences within each CBA, and also understand the culture of each side, then there would be better results.

As it stands, there is skepticism because too many do not understand or even know the differences between the TWU CBA, the IAM CBA and the ideas the Company has as we move forward. Not having that information makes supporting the process a leap of faith and with what the Members of each union have faced over the last decade and a half, that leap of faith is tough indeed.

 

[AANOTOK]

Heard on a radio station here in Dallas yesterday that of the Fortune 500 companies, AA is No.1 (percentage wise) with employees over 50 at 40%. An aging workforce indeed.

 

[WeAAsles]

Who is thinking with selfish notions? And yes, I am in the group of people that really doesnt care how long this takes, as long as its done right. And yes, I thought the same before we got the raise. The folks on the street, i agree we should try and get them back to work ASAP. Yes, the AGC's handle grievances at the Step 3 and above. The local grievance committee handles the steps 1 and 2, and a shop steward or grievance committee person can handle the verbal step. I just want it done right the first time with no "we will get it next round", "live to fight another day", "this is the best you're gonna get", cliche`s. I have had and always will have faith in our NC, but to many cooks in the kitchen messes things up.

PJ look at what you just wrote.

"Who is thinking with selfish notions? And yes, I am in the group of people that really doesnt care how long this takes"

Of course you're selfish. So am I and there's nothing wrong with that.

And then you say this:

"The folks on the street, i agree we should try and get them back to work ASAP."

So we're back to the longer this takes the longer they're out. I've even had IAM people tell me that they don't care if this drags out all the way into the beginning of Section 6 next year.

Nah, no way, ah ah. I'm tired of having those people come on FB and wanting to get home and having to ignore them. Or telling people to their faces right here in MIA that I don't know when you're going to get back? Probably why I was hoping it would be done last May and then hoping the end of the year.

To these guys there is no such thing as it being done right. They just want to get home.

And maybe you don't have to listen to them asking about that every day? But here in MIA we do.

 

[WeAAsles]

Heard on a radio station here in Dallas yesterday that of the Fortune 500 companies, AA is No.1 (percentage wise) with employees over 50 at 40%. An aging workforce indeed.

That's just there in DFW. It's the senior hub where lots of people transfer in from and never leave.

Before the BK the average age at AA was 51. But with the buyout and all the hiring with the merger I'm sure that number has gone down big time.

Actually CLT is going to become the new "I want to go there" destination from how people are talking here. I even know one guy who already bought a house and has his family there. Now that's putting the cart before the horse.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

If fairness is you goal then please help me with something.

Let's say that PTer that has had his seniority accrual in place for all this time suddenly gets full credit for all years on the clock, despite his CBA saying he only gets 50%, He passes several people on the seniority list that had been ahead of him since the 90's because they reached FT or were hired after the change to the CBA.

How do you explain to those Members he passed them despite the contractual language that gave him the seniority he had, they will now jump ahead after spending 20 years behind them.

How is it fair to that Member that was passed? I know you think it's fair for the PTer to suddenly gain what they never had, but how is it fair to the others?

If this is about fairness, show me how to do it where it is fair to everyone.

i won't pretend to come up with a righteous solution. from the twu side, we had quirks with title groups/seniority that 99.9% understood/accepted without griping and got on with it. that's fine, as long as aa/twu is stand-alone, but merging and integrating seniority, changes the issue (in my opinion).

this issue had to be dealt with prior to agreeing to any association. which was done anyways without the input from local presidents, let alone the rank and file.

in dealing with the issue, the twu would have had to reach out to the iam and explain this seniority vision, going forward. this is what we want regarding seniority, what do you want regarding seniority? if the iam balks or rejects, walk away from any association and we hold an election and we will take our chances representing and collecting the dues of all the combined fscs.

the reality was i don't believe the twu liked their chances, despite the clear plurality of twu members and hastily agreed to the association. the iam had to be on cloud 9.

your question is rhetorical in a sense that you know that no one could come up with a solution to please every single employee.

you understand what my issue is and i appreciate the fact that you can at least acknowledge it.

i want to ask you a question. obviously, VC is contractual...why does the company's view on seniority trump the union's for union bidding? i'd think that the twu would fight tooth and nail to use occupational time to bid VC?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

That is where you made your mistake.

You should have known better.

TWU is obviously going to chase after a new source of dues. They have no fear of losing their current dues paying members.

If you were a business who would you concentrate on, someone you had locked under a (working) lifetime contract or new money?

i believe the association was formed because the twu feared losing everything in a winner-take-all election.

 

[NYer]

i won't pretend to come up with a righteous solution. from the twu side, we had quirks with title groups/seniority that 99.9% understood/accepted without griping and got on with it. that's fine, as long as aa/twu is stand-alone, but merging and integrating seniority, changes the issue (in my opinion).

this issue had to be dealt with prior to agreeing to any association. which was done anyways without the input from local presidents, let alone the rank and file.

in dealing with the issue, the twu would have had to reach out to the iam and explain this seniority vision, going forward. this is what we want regarding seniority, what do you want regarding seniority? if the iam balks or rejects, walk away from any association and we hold an election and we will take our chances representing and collecting the dues of all the combined fscs.

the reality was i don't believe the twu liked their chances, despite the clear plurality of twu members and hastily agreed to the association. the iam had to be on cloud 9.

your question is rhetorical in a sense that you know that no one could come up with a solution to please every single employee.

you understand what my issue is and i appreciate the fact that you can at least acknowledge it.

i want to ask you a question. obviously, VC is contractual...why does the company's view on seniority trump the union's for union bidding? i'd think that the twu would fight tooth and nail to use occupational time to bid VC?

Anything other than how to integrate the two lists would need to be handled within the negotiations process.

Whether he had an Association or not, the seniority questions would still necessitate taking into consideration the same issues dealt with by Neutral Javits.

I disagree with the notion that integrating seniority lists means we need to treat one side different than the other. The recommendation by Javits allows the TWU side to maintain their seniority order, as compared to other TWU Members, the same as it is today. On the IAM side, they have a similar outcome in which they maintain their order about each other and respecting the history of how that list was put together. To try to make any changes in the argument of trying to fix or create a fair process is virtually impossible as any change would modify the order within the TWU group and/or the IAM group.

There is no perfect manner in which to get this done, but it seems the method recommended would be far less intrusive as any other method, and of course this is about the Fleet list and not meant to be an opinion for the Maintenance side.

 

[NYer]

con·tor·tion·ist
kənˈtôrSHənəst

• an entertainer who twists and bends their body into strange and unnatural positions.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

NYer,


Crema,

Seniority is a touchy issue for all of us. Can we agree to disagree on the seniority situation? I know my date isnt changing. It is what it is. The date that Javits went by was the date that was given to him by the COMPANY, not the union. So other than the seniority issue, which we all will have differing opinions on, how/why do you think LUS benefitted more than the LAA folks with this merger?

absolutely, a touchy subject. i'm not clear on what we disagree on? you said you were/are a lus PTer who accrued only 50% seniority? ok, that is an injustice when combined with laa PTers who accrued 100%.

if lus remained a stand-alone airline, ok. you lump it, it was part of the deal when you got hired. who told you it would be part of the deal you had to lump so laa & lus can merge? you were denied the same seniority that laa PTers accrued and now those laa PTers will now use that seniority to get better shifts, days off, VC..etc..etc.

i believe we are in the same boat. at a personal level, each of us believe that the other carrier's fscs (FTers for me, PTers for you) have an unfair advantage over each of us.

if you say that we disagree because you accept this reality and i don't, that isn't exactly true either. i don't plan on contacting javits or my congressman. this is an airline forum, this is the 'new' aa board, i believe i can make a few posts about this issue. a few posts turning into more posts due to ridiculous reasons.

as far as the pay rates prior to and after the govt. OKed the merger, i think that info was/is all over the place. i don't believe we were earning the same wages.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Why the rush for a JCBA now? What information do they have that we don't, that has them intervening now.

this was discussed the other day and some believe that the intl. is smelling it's fingers and wants this done before the trump administration gets rolling with what they fear - more anti-union legislation.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

Actually CLT is going to become the new "I want to go there" destination from how people are talking here. I even know one guy who already bought a house and has his family there. Now that's putting the cart before the horse.

Just make sure you live on the South Carolina side of the line. NC will tax the Shi'ite out of you. As for Charlotte, the city has the personality of a turnip.

 

[WeAAsles]

Just make sure you live on the South Carolina side of the line. NC will tax the Shi'ite out of you. As for Charlotte, the city has the personality of a turnip.

Thanks man but not for me. I'm staying put right here where it's nice and warm.

 

[lax]

WeAAsles,

I just hope that they don't lose sight of the long term gains just for short term gains. My question for them would be this, Why the rush for a JCBA now? What information do they have that we don't, that has them intervening now. I get that the workforce is getting impatient, I do. But we have gotten a considerable raise, the company got the cross utilization that they wanted to get in the 13 cities. So why the rush now?

ughhhh because 80% of the fsc workforce is living under a bankruptcy contract not to mention a myriad of other reasons...

 

[pjirish317]

absolutely, a touchy subject. i'm not clear on what we disagree on? you said you were/are a lus PTer who accrued only 50% seniority? ok, that is an injustice when combined with laa PTers who accrued 100%.

if lus remained a stand-alone airline, ok. you lump it, it was part of the deal when you got hired. who told you it would be part of the deal you had to lump so laa & lus can merge? you were denied the same seniority that laa PTers accrued and now those laa PTers will now use that seniority to get better shifts, days off, VC..etc..etc.

i believe we are in the same boat. at a personal level, each of us believe that the other carrier's fscs (FTers for me, PTers for you) have an unfair advantage over each of us.

if you say that we disagree because you accept this reality and i don't, that isn't exactly true either. i don't plan on contacting javits or my congressman. this is an airline forum, this is the 'new' aa board, i believe i can make a few posts about this issue. a few posts turning into more posts due to ridiculous reasons.

as far as the pay rates prior to and after the govt. OKed the merger, i think that info was/is all over the place. i don't believe we were earning the same wages.

Crema,

I am currently FT at LUS. I started as PT. Back then PT employees accrued 50% of FT seniority. That stopped around 95-96. I stated here before LUS wages were at $24.39 topped out employee, with the lead premium at $1.50. What was LAA at? But it seems you are dodging the question I asked. How/why do you feel the LUS folks benefitted more than the LAA folks did with the merger?