JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[ograc]

I think the word they used was "expedite"

You can interpret that however you want?

Expedite = Hasten in my book. Makes you wonder which party is in greater need of a JCBA. There are a lot of critical Articles and details to be negotiated through. Article language that will affect everyone. Is it wise, at this point, to expedite negotiations with so many Articles and issues unresolved?

 

[WeAAsles]

Expedite = Hasten in my book. Makes you wonder which party is in greater need of a JCBA. There are a lot of critical Articles and details to be negotiated through. Article language that will affect everyone. Is it wise, at this point, to expedite negotiations with so many Articles and issues unresolved?

Don't worry. They know what they're doing.

 

[Albert]

Don't worry. They know what they're doing.

You base this comment on what? Did they earn the benefit of the doubt with you?This time I think you are looking through a half filled glass but your beverage is cloudy.This is the first time I am actually concerned. If I was a negotiator I doubt I would like them dropping in now, unless they are totally frustrated

 

[WeAAsles]

You base this comment on what? Did they earn the benefit of the doubt with you?This time I think you are looking through a half filled glass but your beverage is cloudy.This is the first time I am actually concerned. If I was a negotiator I doubt I would like them dropping in now, unless they are totally frustrated

One more time. Don't worry they know what they're doing.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Cream you may or may not be aware is there is no shortage of agents in CLT with two seniority dates some in the 4 year range, in an industry were even a day makes a difference that's an eternity I.
I fail to see really what you're looking for here to make you happy.I'm beginning to wonder if you think we should have been stapled under all off you

that's unfortunate. i read about the pain in your station and i'll send you 2 sleeping clerks and a disappearing local driver to help if you show me where i said that us air people should have been stapled under legacy aa. if you can't and continue playing follow the leader, all you lose is credibility. i know it's important to you that you let us know what's going on in your station. this stuff is here for all to read, don't make up stuff.

this is what i said:

are you saying you understand my point or that i need to understand my point?

yes, i'm aware of legacy us air PT seniority accrual. yes, that is also a gripe for them. i would be a hypocrite if i said, "who cares".

i've been saying all along, legacy us air clerks acquired seniority in ways that one could not at aa...and now, they will be ahead of legacy aa fscs.



i never said screw the us air guys or wouldn't bother posting absurdly selfish me-me-me posts. what i said is the twu should have fought for it's members. if this guy gets seniority from piedmont or psa, then that guy gets seniority from reno or fueling, etc. to me, that's fair. the aa PTer gets full seniority, then the us air PTer gets the same.

sounds fair to me. you have a problem because the guru has gone to war?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Crema,

Can you explain how and why the LUS agents have "benefitted" more from this merger than the LAA folks? I really would like to know why you think this way.

i'd love to, but weesles convinced me and i'm sure he'll convince you too. remember, he has over 10,000 posts, so he knows what he's talking about. weezels said you guys got more money, in fact, this is what he said:

Since the merger was announced I've gotten around in the 40% range for raises and you've gotten around 50%

Yes we ALL have benefitted from the merger.

Of course they benefitted a bit more.

the first post, weesles was talking to albert, who wants the NC numbers of the planes aa took collateral on...to inflate it's cash just before a chapter 11 filing.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Because either he doesn't completely know what you guys have gone through yourselves when it comes to your contract language or and I'd like to hope not, he doesn't care.

I mean he was already told that your PT Agents only gained half seniority while under that status and he didn't respond to that bit of information at all?

????

not the first time you've done this..you conveniently didn't see these? too busy in the other threads telling the AMTs & pilots their business, especially the pilot seniority issue? $3 bill.

are you saying you understand my point or that i need to understand my point?

yes, i'm aware of legacy us air PT seniority accrual. yes, that is also a gripe for them. i would be a hypocrite if i said, "who cares".

i never said screw the us air guys or wouldn't bother posting absurdly selfish me-me-me posts. what i said is the twu should have fought for it's members. if this guy gets seniority from piedmont or psa, then that guy gets seniority from reno or fueling, etc. to me, that's fair. the aa PTer gets full seniority, then the us air PTer gets the same.

sounds like i want a square deal for all.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

You have to remember his comments about that situation. He doesn't feel that they got screwed at all in the slightest.

He only targets a particular set of people that were part of "HIS" situation that he feels were screwed.

Now he'll eventually come back and say it's me that's twisting "his" words.

of course TWA didn't get screwed. we are talking acquisition, not merger. you do understand? you are the resident fish historian of this small pond.

the twa guys:
- were allowed company seniority. the 1959 twa lead got christmas/new years off and the 1984 aa c/c got national fishing week off.
- aa saved their pensions.
- aa bumped up their pay and the twa geriatric brigade got a pay raise with our 2001 contract.
- the were given station protection, 100% in stl, 25% here and there.

in return, the aa guys got:
2 additional sk days. from 10 to 12, the additional 2 taken away in 2003.

the deal never happens if they get occ. seniority, the company needed the contract ratified for the acquisition to proceed...and everyone except a 4 year fsc named weesly would have voted no way to that.

are you still crying for twa? those guys were rescued. anyways, i wouldn't go around telling aa guys that you believe it was unfair that the twa brigade didn't get their occ. seniority. i don't actually believe you feel that way, you need to do this to protect your pond.

 

[pjirish317]

Crema,

I asked you how and why you thought LUS benefitted more than the LAA agents did. I did not ask weAAsles. If all you have to go on is the seniority and pay, to me those are straw man aguments. LUS agents lost 1/2 of their time while working as a P/T agent. If an agent was P/T for say 2 years prior to getting F/T, that agent only got credit for 1 year as a F/T. Now that all stopped in 1995-96 I think when everything went DOH for everybody hired after that date. Me personaly, I lost about 3 years and 3 months because of this rule. I will never get that time back. So there were people hired after me that are currently senior to me on the seniority list. There will ALWAYS be someone senior to you, unless you're the #1 person on the list. As far as the pay, I think we both made out equally. We were at $24.39 for a topped out agent. What was LAA at? So the pay is also a straw man argument, since both LAA and LUS are at $30.17 topped out. The only difference with pay is the Lead/CC differential. LUS is at $1.50 per hour for Lead premium and isn't LAA at $2.50 for CC premium? So, I really would like to hear why you think we benefitted more than the LAA folks with this merger?

 

[pjirish317]

of course TWA didn't get screwed. we are talking acquisition, not merger. you do understand? you are the resident fish historian of this small pond.

the twa guys:
- were allowed company seniority. the 1959 twa lead got christmas/new years off and the 1984 aa c/c got national fishing week off.
- aa saved their pensions.
- aa bumped up their pay and the twa geriatric brigade got a pay raise with our 2001 contract.
- the were given station protection, 100% in stl, 25% here and there.

in return, the aa guys got:
2 additional sk days. from 10 to 12, the additional 2 taken away in 2003.

the deal never happens if they get occ. seniority, the company needed the contract ratified for the acquisition to proceed...and everyone except a 4 year fsc named weesly would have voted no way to that.

are you still crying for twa? those guys were rescued. anyways, i wouldn't go around telling aa guys that you believe it was unfair that the twa brigade didn't get their occ. seniority. i don't actually believe you feel that way, you need to do this to protect your pond.

So you feel it was OK for the TWA agents to lose their time? One could argue that LUS "rescued" LAA because LAA was in BK. By your way of thinking, LAA should get only "station" protection and 25% after that? You de-value their time because it benefitted you and many others. You do realize that Mccaskill-Bond was put in place because of the LAA-TWA seniority intergration right?

 

[WeAAsles]

Crema says that AA saved the TWA Pensions? Right there is another clue that the guy has no clue what he's talking about.

No AA did not save the TWA Pensions. They were thrown on the PBGC pile with a massive underfunding and those people are going to get cents on the dollar for what they were supposed to get and were promised.

I bet Crema has never even talked to a TWA guy but he thinks he's an expert on them?

 

[WeAAsles]

So you feel it was OK for the TWA agents to lose their time? One could argue that LUS "rescued" LAA because LAA was in BK. By your way of thinking, LAA should get only "station" protection and 25% after that? You de-value their time because it benefitted you and many others. You do realize that Mccaskill-Bond was put in place because of the LAA-TWA seniority intergration right?

Actually we should get 100% in old AA Hubs, 25% in well mixed cities and December 9, 2013 in all other cities.

If I ever wanted to transfer to CLT or PHX my seniority date should be 12/09/13.

Arbitrator Javits made a big mistake and that's how he should have put it in place.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm wondering if Crema looked at the merged seniority list in his city and saw that overall (somehow) by percentage he's actually going down from where he is right now?

I don't know where he works but that's the only reason I could think why he's having such a chit fit about the whole thing? Otherwise and if he didn't go down but went up instead all of his rants are completely ridiculous.

Overall I went up by percentage on the system seniority list. I was in about the 50% range in the total with just AA TWU. Now once it's all done I'm going into around the 40% to the top range.

Again though the only reason that means a hill of beans is if I ever get laid off and have to bump the system. Otherwise it doesn't mean crap.

 

[NYer]

So you feel it was OK for the TWA agents to lose their time? One could argue that LUS "rescued" LAA because LAA was in BK. By your way of thinking, LAA should get only "station" protection and 25% after that? You de-value their time because it benefitted you and many others. You do realize that Mccaskill-Bond was put in place because of the LAA-TWA seniority intergration right?

McCaskill-Bond, which is an extension of Allegheny-Mohawk, was created because of the flight attendant situation, not the TWU-IAM Members.

What happened to the TWA Fleet guys could still happen today since it came out of an arbitration of the seniority integration in which the TWU, the IAM and the airline all participated in.

If you read the award, the decision was based on contractual language that existed in the TWU CBA which protected the Members within that CBA.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

So you feel it was OK for the TWA agents to lose their time? One could argue that LUS "rescued" LAA because LAA was in BK. By your way of thinking, LAA should get only "station" protection and 25% after that? You de-value their time because it benefitted you and many others. You do realize that Mccaskill-Bond was put in place because of the LAA-TWA seniority intergration right?

pjirish,

i worked with former twa guys...1960s-70s seniority and we had many conversations.
what was the alternative for twa? they had none. icahn had stripped the company..this deal was made prior to 9-11 and hanging in the balance after 9-11. after 9-11, twa would have folded by christmas and those guys would have been out on the street with NOTHING. 9-11 happened and we had a contract on the table that most (aa) understood you had to vote in. acquisition confirmed.

for you to tell me that lus rescued aa or this merger is similar to that 2001 acquisition, with lus as aa and laa as 2001 twa is so far from reality and will get you some nasty replies from legacy aa guys.

i'm getting the impression from legacy us air guys that as a legacy aa fsc, i'm not allowed to voice my displeasure about the merger seniority issue. i did not know that this forum appears to be a hardcore lus website. anyways, i blamed the twu and felt the twu should have looked after it's dues-paying members better. that's all. in this forum, you've been led by the pied piper telling you i hate us air, when i have posted that seniority should apply to all, including lus PTers.

if this guy gets seniority today from piedmont or psa than that guy gets seniority from fueling or reno air. if this legacy laa PTer gets full seniority than that legacy lus PTer also gets full seniority. i have posted all that. i can't be anymore clear. do you believe that is so outrageously unfair?? surely that means i hate us air? clearly, this means i only want seniority for myself?? so, most of my posts have been going backwards to defend myself from ridiculous accusations - made to wind you and other lus clerks up, i'm done with that.

mixing the twa acquisition with the merger is a smokescreen and here, in the midst of some legacy aa fscs, you and the the big fish and not doing yourselves any favors by constantly sympathizing with an acquired twa and telling us that twa 'should have' or 'maybe' had their occ. time to try and stick it to me, because i happen to post here and was/am not impressed by the seniority developments.