JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

Just curious what’s your definition of a bs contract. The way I see it is that anything offered in any article that is less than what lus has you would call bs. If that’s true, and speaking of pure bs, what the hell was the so called reconciliation process for other than an excuse to eat steak and lobster in las vegas on opm. This Ass group touted how they’d be so beneficial for the entire workforce but from where I sit looks like a complete mess. Week after week it’s the same worthless updates and continual whining about the company. Never have I read about the ASSs lack of ability, unreasonableness, or any accountability for lack of progress. The real problem is that no one in that room has the anecdote to reconcile this. 6 guys already had a better contract and now have the same money as the other 6 guys. So whereas the company may offer something that is quite an improvement to half the room(ie daily, weekly, annual departures of station staffing), the other 6 just shrug their shoulders in discontent and run back to the steakhouse. The Ass was supposedly put together to represent the interest of the majority. But in practice its really just two separate groups that happen to be sitting at the same table only representing their factions. And btw if 90% ratification is the goal maybe you guys need to revisit that disastrous cs policy that was somehow TA’d. other than weasel and a few others, I haven’t met many naatives that are happy about that one. Most call that bs!!!

For me it was about taking that CS policy gun out of the hands of management and putting it into our own hands. In my career I've seen management chop that policy down more than once. And when they started their CS restriction policy that was it for me.

If let's say the CS (Swap shift language) is now pretty much a mirror of what the PSA has it shouldn't be anything that creates a firestorm? I believe it's still 50% of your shift hours so you can basically make up your own schedule by playing with different people's shifts.

I'm not expecting our language to be much different then what we currently have in policy right now?

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW I don't want anyone to misconstrue that I don't think the stalls, red tape, drama, whatever you want to call it didn't wind up working out to our advantage financially. I still say that had this been a smooth ride from day one, us and the other airlines would have our Fleet rates locked in somewhere between the $26 to $27 range. And we wouldn't have known any better or been any wiser that it could have been more.

Now for me it's more about the ideology of what is this Association? Anything above what I have now is just iceing on my cake.

Are we eventually going to have a JCBA that we can give this Association a thumbs up for or will it be an ideological bust where people are going to start that drive to throw out one Union for the other? I really don't want to feel like I should sign that card if it ever comes around?

"Unions should not fight Unions"

 

[NYer]

For me it was about taking that CS policy gun out of the hands of management and putting it into our own hands. In my career I've seen management chop that policy down more than once. And when they started their CS restriction policy that was it for me.

If let's say the CS (Swap shift language) is now pretty much a mirror of what the PSA has it shouldn't be anything that creates a firestorm? I believe it's still 50% of your shift hours so you can basically make up your own schedule by playing with different people's shifts.

I'm not expecting our language to be much different then what we currently have in policy right now?

No make-ups

 

[WeAAsles]

No make-ups

So you're saying that if a person gives away an afternoon shift for a morning shift that won't cancel each other out? He losses whatever hours it was that he traded?

Don't the PSA have the ability to do that?

 

[NYer]

BTW I don't want anyone to misconstrue that I don't think the stalls, red tape, drama, whatever you want to call it didn't wind up working out to our advantage financially. I still say that had this been a smooth ride from day one, us and the other airlines would have our Fleet rates locked in somewhere between the $26 to $27 range. And we wouldn't have known any better or been any wiser that it could have been more.

Now for me it's more about the ideology of what is this Association? Anything above what I have now is just iceing on my cake.

Are we eventually going to have a JCBA that we can give this Association a thumbs up for or will it be an ideological bust where people are going to start that drive to throw out one Union for the other? I really don't want to feel like I should sign that card if it ever comes around?

"Unions should not fight Unions"

You keep going with that fallacy about being tied into a $27 pay rate.

The Association was given the go ahead in May 2015, by the NMB. Delta announced their raises in September 2015 and United in April 2016. If the Association would have been ready to go on day 1, (rather than December 2015) and we project the current 11 month timeline of actual negotiations we could have been at this point in April 2016 rather than November. That is not even considering the time it would take to reach an actual JCBA.

Aside from that, the Company has given the flight attendants two payments beyond their contractual obligations in order to make up for the raises received by other flight attendants groups. Your premise of being stuck in a $27 an hour top out doesn't really hold water.

It has been several times where you predicted a quicker resolution despite others, with experience, telling you otherwise. As a matter of fact, your last prediction was that we'd be done by the end of this year. All of this wouldn't matter but for the fact that you have sold competing theories are being "stupid" or "desperate."

I think we can also detect a little fence jumping on your part, but I'm sure you'd disagree.

 

[WeAAsles]

So you're saying that if a person gives away an afternoon shift for a morning shift that won't cancel each other out? He losses whatever hours it was that he traded?

Don't the PSA have the ability to do that?

Page 6 Paragraph 11

http://american-agents.org/app/uploads/2015/10/Article_5_Hours_of_Service.pdf

Now of course the language doesn't appear to be specific if that Swap has to be with the same person or of the hours can be made up?

It's my belief that the company just wants people like we have it now to actually work here if they are providing benefits. It was a weeding out over the years of "ghost" employees.

If we have TA'd similar language it would probably be wise to gain a letter of intent on exactly how this language is to be applied?

 

[NYer]

So you're saying that if a person gives away an afternoon shift for a morning shift that won't cancel each other out? He losses whatever hours it was that he traded?

Don't the PSA have the ability to do that?

Not really sure about what the PSA's have.

You spoke about the 50%. In your context, those that CSO with frequency don't really gain an advantage by having to pick up others' hours (within a certain window) in order to make up the time.

 

[WeAAsles]

You keep going with that fallacy about being tied into a $27 pay rate.

The Association was given the go ahead in May 2015, by the NMB. Delta announced their raises in September 2015 and United in April 2016. If the Association would have been ready to go on day 1, (rather than December 2015) and we project the current 11 month timeline of actual negotiations we could have been at this point in April 2016 rather than November. That is not even considering the time it would take to reach an actual JCBA.

Aside from that, the Company has given the flight attendants two payments beyond their contractual obligations in order to make up for the raises received by other flight attendants groups. Your premise of being stuck in a $27 an hour top out doesn't really hold water.

It has been several times where you predicted a quicker resolution despite others, with experience, telling you otherwise. As a matter of fact, your last prediction was that we'd be done by the end of this year. All of this wouldn't matter but for the fact that you have sold competing theories are being "stupid" or "desperate."

I think we can also detect a little fence jumping on your part, but I'm sure you'd disagree.

I'm not a Flight Attendant. Neither are you. And had there been no Association (9 month stall waiting for them to get a standalone CBA) and another 9 month waiting for the NMB to certify. Maybe 14 or 15 months would have been shaved off the process and neither Delta or UAL would have gotten their raises over anything a standalone TWU (taking the whole pie) would have secured.

Had we been locked in at $26 or $27 max neither of the other 3 airlines would have leapt over us by such a huge percentage.

It should be extremely easy for you to see that in the fact that we just essentially matched those UAL rates.

 

[WeAAsles]

Not really sure about what the PSA's have.

You spoke about the 50%. In your context, those that CSO with frequency don't really gain an advantage by having to pick up others' hours (within a certain window) in order to make up the time.

NYer are you saying that what has been agreed to is based on Swap Shifts having to be done with the individual you gave your hours to, to not count against the amount you can take off? Meaning you cannot make up hours with others to offset the formula?

If that is the case then honestly some people did not understand the importance of the CS's to our members and any JCBA that has that is going to go down in flames like the Hindenburg. I can pretty much 100% be positive about that.

 

[bob@las-AA]

I am not happy that we are still in negotiations with no true end in sight. I will not accept a bs contract under the conditions we are under, PERIOD!!

P. Rez

Before LAA and USL decided to sleep with each-other, the US side was only making $19/hour, had low cost health ins, and 5 flight a day station scope, not to mention dominating 9 of the 13 co-occupied stations. I think you might have trouble facing that what might be a concession to your group just might be a bonus to the LAA side. In the last update, some key wording has revealed some valuable insight to the direction the negotiations are headed, not to mention some non-related economic indicators, but I will leave that alone for now. The US camp has to date received a 57% increase in pay without anything in return, you should prepare for the approaching storm ahead.

 

[bob@las-AA]

The company is shutting off flex rates.

http://www.twulocal513.org/docs/2016 Flex Pay Rate.pdf

 

[bob@las-AA]

NYer are you saying that what has been agreed to is based on Swap Shifts having to be done with the individual you gave your hours to, to not count against the amount you can take off? Meaning you cannot make up hours with others to offset the formula?

If that is the case then honestly some people did not understand the importance of the CS's to our members and any JCBA that has that is going to go down in flames like the Hindenburg. I can pretty much 100% be positive about that.

Its strange but I don't hear people talking about that as much the stations we are going to reopen. People will listen to anything.

 

[NYer]

I'm not a Flight Attendant. Neither are you. And had there been no Association (9 month stall waiting for them to get a standalone CBA) and another 9 month waiting for the NMB to certify. Maybe 14 or 15 months would have been shaved off the process and neither Delta or UAL would have gotten their raises over anything a standalone TWU (taking the whole pie) would have secured.

Had we been locked in at $26 or $27 max neither of the other 3 airlines would have leapt over us by such a huge percentage.

It should be extremely easy for you to see that in the fact that we just essentially matched those UAL rates.

Your timeline doesn't match up.

 

[NYer]

NYer are you saying that what has been agreed to is based on Swap Shifts having to be done with the individual you gave your hours to, to not count against the amount you can take off? Meaning you cannot make up hours with others to offset the formula?

If that is the case then honestly some people did not understand the importance of the CS's to our members and any JCBA that has that is going to go down in flames like the Hindenburg. I can pretty much 100% be positive about that.

If you're positive, then it probably won't happen.

 

[Albert]

The piece that may cause the PTers to vote for such a thing is the ability to be able to forgo medical and not pay anything (an option given during the BK). When you're young and without a family making less than top rates, that savings is very appealing.

It is also a danger since less people paying into an insurances makes the rates for everyone else to go up, especially if those in the plan are older and more prone to use the insurance at a higher clip.

In that c

Before LAA and USL decided to sleep with each-other, the US side was only making $19/hour, had low cost health ins, and 5 flight a day station scope, not to mention dominating 9 of the 13 co-occupied stations. I think you might have trouble facing that what might be a concession to your group just might be a bonus to the LAA side. In the last update, some key wording has revealed some valuable insight to the direction the negotiations are headed, not to mention some non-related economic indicators, but I will leave that alone for now. The US camp has to date received a 57% increase in pay without anything in return, you should prepare for the approaching storm ahead.

$20,57 Bob you guys were what $22 and change it seems we both benefited from the merger. Unless you are a commuter I don't understand why anyone is in a hurry.