JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[ograc]

How are we supposed to know how it's presented from either side? We're not in the room.

But ograc I can tell you for a 100% certainty that those negotiators absolutely have at least every current station on their minds and then some. As a matter of fact 5 of the 6 Presidents who are negotiating on the TWU side are small station Presidents.

That should give you a small measure of comfort for your station being considered.

 
Let's set the record straight WAAsles. I do not speak about this issue for my own gain. I'm close enough to retirement where it won't affect me one way or another. I speak for those members who have years invested but too far from retirement. We need to carefully consider and secure their jobs. You're right... neither of us are in the room. Hopefully, lessons have been learned, with the original TA between the IAM and UA, and subsequent ratification by the members. Concessionary language, agreed to by the NC and ratified by the membership, that proved to go too far. I have never seen a contract, being opened to negotiations, years prior to the agreed to amendable date. An admission of fault by both parties?    
 

 

[Worldport]

 
Let's set the record straight WAAsles. I do not speak about this issue for my own gain. I'm close enough to retirement where it won't affect me one way or another. I speak for those members who have years invested but too far from retirement. We need to carefully consider and secure their jobs. You're right... neither of us are in the room. Hopefully, lessons have been learned, with the original TA between the IAM and UA, and subsequent ratification by the members. Concessionary language, agreed to by the NC and ratified by the membership, that proved to go too far. I have never seen a contract, being opened to negotiations, years prior to the agreed to amendable date. An admission of fault by both parties?    
 

I think it was a peace offering 

 

[700UW]

It was done because UA's operation went into the toilet and Smisek was replaced with Oscar.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Let's set the record straight WAAsles. I do not speak about this issue for my own gain. I'm close enough to retirement where it won't affect me one way or another. I speak for those members who have years invested but too far from retirement. We need to carefully consider and secure their jobs. You're right... neither of us are in the room. Hopefully, lessons have been learned, with the original TA between the IAM and UA, and subsequent ratification by the members. Concessionary language, agreed to by the NC and ratified by the membership, that proved to go too far. I have never seen a contract, being opened to negotiations, years prior to the agreed to amendable date. An admission of fault by both parties?    
 

More so an admission that the direction that Smisek had taken with the Airline was horrendous and past being tolerated. Probably why those Hedge fund guys were jumping in too. And I've also brought up the fact that for us both sides have much stronger language to work off of then the IAM at UAL had.

But I can of course understand your hesitation with as much as we all have gone through in this industry. It hasn't exactly been a happy Picnic. 

For me I'm going off those negotiation updates to see how things are progressing. So far our negotiators have implied that they have made improvements on 17 out of 17 articles. And they're holding firm on something that I have publicly given an opinion that I don't think is as big a deal as it needs to be which is "Temporary Employees" which they tabled. All temp employees do (which the company will never use from the outside) is cut down excess OT during the peak periods. Anyway.

If they're going to hold firm on an Article like that, how do you think they're going to react when they get to the BIG items like Station Staffing? It should be pretty obvious I'd like to think. 

 

[WeAAsles]

It was done because UA's operation went into the toilet and Smisek was replaced with Oscar.

I hope Smisek goes to prison. Probably the worst airline CEO to come down the pipe since the days of Lorenzo and Ichan? Some of you guys have more time in the industry then I do. Can you recall anyone worse?

I don't think Parker can win this prize personally.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-fagin/why-uniteds-jeff-smisek-i_b_5249902.html

 

[Worldport]

More so an admission that the direction that Smisek had taken with the Airline was horrendous and past being tolerated. Probably why those Hedge fund guys were jumping in too. And I've also brought up the fact that for us both sides have much stronger language to work off of then the IAM at UAL had.

But I can of course understand your hesitation with as much as we all have gone through in this industry. It hasn't exactly been a happy Picnic. 

For me I'm going off those negotiation updates to see how things are progressing. So far our negotiators have implied that they have made improvements on 17 out of 17 articles. And they're holding firm on something that I have publicly given an opinion that I don't think is as big a deal as it needs to be which is "Temporary Employees" which they tabled. All temp employees do (which the company will never use from the outside) is cut down excess OT during the peak periods. Anyway.

If they're going to hold firm on an Article like that, how do you think they're going to react when they get to the BIG items like Station Staffing? It should be pretty obvious I'd like to think. 

On the other hand if they tabled temp employees something I haven't seen in 25 years. How difficult  and how long will it take to negotiate some of the more important issues?

 

[WeAAsles]

On the other hand if they tabled temp employees something I haven't seen in 25 years. How difficult  and how long will it take to negotiate some of the more important issues?

Good question. But look I'm not going to be one of these guys joining the chorus line to rush any of these guys. I really do believe that they have our best interests at heart and this really is the one and only chance that we're going to have for the rest of our careers for this to be done right and have something be left behind at AA that our generation can be proud of. The negotiators in that room are people we voted for so by extension they're us.

Worldport I just really don't want to be like those old timers that were pulling at me to vote for something that screwed people for years so I can say "I got mine" Like I said a ways back I thought those guys were disgusting pigs. But we do deserve ours because we have put in the time to have earned it. There just has to be some level of balance to it.

 

[Worldport]

Good question. But look I'm not going to be one of these guys joining the chorus line to rush any of these guys. I really do believe that they have our best interests at heart and this really is the one and only chance that we're going to have for the rest of our careers for this to be done right and have something be left behind at AA that our generation can be proud of. The negotiators in that room are people we voted for so by extension they're us.

Worldport I just really don't want to be like those old timers that were pulling at me to vote for something that screwed people for years so I can say "I got mine" Like I said a ways back I thought those guys were disgusting pigs. But we do deserve ours because we have put in the time to have earned it. There just has to be some level of balance to it.

 It's a tough call this is life changing money to some.The retirement issue alone could take months and that's infighting. I have to say the troops  here are getting restless. If negotiators are being so meticulous  and they came back with a contract one group or one hub didn't like(which is par in mergers) we are in for fireworks

 

[WeAAsles]

It's a tough call this is life changing money to some.The retirement issue alone could take months and that's infighting. I have to say the troops  here are getting restless. If negotiators are being so meticulous  and they came back with a contract one group or one hub didn't like(which is par in mergers) we are in for fireworks

This is totally just a gut feeling completely but I just don't see it happening? And I really am just as restless as everyone else but I feel it's better just to let it progress to its natural conclusion. It's life changing money to me too but I don't want it to control my thoughts on all the other things that have value to other people for all different reasons.

Take my friend Greg and MEM for example. Going home would be very important to him. He doesn't think it's going to happen but he still has a small amount of hope. I'd like to go visit him when he does get back home? Out of those 13 people a bunch retired and we have one lady here in MIA named Angie who says she won't go back. Hell for all I know my friend could be the only one who does?

 

[ograc]

More so an admission that the direction that Smisek had taken with the Airline was horrendous and past being tolerated. Probably why those Hedge fund guys were jumping in too. And I've also brought up the fact that for us both sides have much stronger language to work off of then the IAM at UAL had.

But I can of course understand your hesitation with as much as we all have gone through in this industry. It hasn't exactly been a happy Picnic. 

For me I'm going off those negotiation updates to see how things are progressing. So far our negotiators have implied that they have made improvements on 17 out of 17 articles. And they're holding firm on something that I have publicly given an opinion that I don't think is as big a deal as it needs to be which is "Temporary Employees" which they tabled. All temp employees do (which the company will never use from the outside) is cut down excess OT during the peak periods. Anyway.

If they're going to hold firm on an Article like that, how do you think they're going to react when they get to the BIG items like Station Staffing? It should be pretty obvious I'd like to think. 

My frustration is the IAM and the membership have not learned from past history to this point.  Both parties, not long ago, we're patting each other on the back about what a great agreement this was at UA. I only hope that lessons have been learned going forward. For the sake of those who have future years of service at stake. Hopefully, any future agreement at AA, will reflect lessons learned from the past. The NC and the combined membership need to hold firm. Long term thinking needs to prevail at this critical juncture.  
 

 

[700UW]

Hadn't learned?

You current CBA was negotiated AFTER the UA debacle, same District.

 

[WeAAsles]

My frustration is the IAM and the membership have not learned from past history to this point.  Both parties, not long ago, we're patting each other on the back about what a great agreement this was at UA. I only hope that lessons have been learned going forward. For the sake of those who have future years of service at stake. Hopefully, any future agreement at AA, will reflect lessons learned from the past. The NC and the combined membership need to hold firm. Long term thinking needs to prevail at this critical juncture.

It was a very different negotiating committee and a VERY different set of circumstances. ograc these are the same guys mostly that held firm and got you your agreement. I'm pretty sure I remember you thinking that was a good deal? Why would you believe they might think any different this time around? And I have 100% faith in the guys on my side because I know some of them personally.

 

[WeAAsles]

Hadn't learned?
You current CBA was negotiated AFTER the UA debacle, same District.

Again over and over this has to be drummed into people's minds. Same District but a different set of negotiators under a VERY different and difficult set of circumstances.

 

[robbedagain]

i believe that when the talks are over with and there's a new JCBA  i think itll be a hell of an improvement over what we have had.   not to mention around 40ish articles      Job protection  scope  higher wages    hopefully theyll grandfather in all current mainline cities in both LAA and LUS

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW ograc I also have a lot of faith in your membership there at US. I think they're very well informed and will make the smart choice when the time comes.

I think the IAM and TWU will do there level best at explaining the TA to all of us when it comes out as well if people get past the $$$$$ and want to be informed.

And aside from that I don't think we'll see any colored brochures where you need a magnifying glass to read the fine print. They're not going to need to do that.