JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[charlie Brown]

CB, You said the next couple of sessions would be intense, and would tell how serious the company was about getting this done. While I know you can only say so much, in my opinion, the Association update was once again vague and very generic. They have been terrible. So, as much as you can say, was there any positive movement/talk in regards to scope, and was it as intense this first week as you thought it might be. Finally, did this first week, in your opinion put a positive or negative step on the talks...thanks!

Yes it was a pretty intense week. Once we passed our proposal on Monday there was some very good back and forth conversations on scope. We didn’t expect a written response from the company due to all the conversations and questions that needs to be clarified. Also keep in mind, once they get a scope proposal, they have to go back and cost everything out to see if things are still in their ballpark. So since this has to be done and will take until next meeting, the last day was used to tie up some mechanic issues that were still out there. So the week went about how I expected. Good news is, it didn’t all fall apart, which is always a possibility when it comes to scope.

 

[swamt]

Yes it was a pretty intense week. Once we passed our proposal on Monday there was some very good back and forth conversations on scope. We didn’t expect a written response from the company due to all the conversations and questions that needs to be clarified. Also keep in mind, once they get a scope proposal, they have to go back and cost everything out to see if things are still in their ballpark. So since this has to be done and will take until next meeting, the last day was used to tie up some mechanic issues that were still out there. So the week went about how I expected. Good news is, it didn’t all fall apart, which is always a possibility when it comes to scope.

Thanks again for the updates CB. AANOTOK answered the question about the rumors to me. I forget who, but someone came on here and said he heard scope is done and that the ones that would better benefit from it are the ones who would be leaving with the buy-out package. I told him I thought it was way too early to be done with scope in the first week of nego's about scope. I also do not believe the scope will be done in the next week of scheduled nego's. Too complicated and detailed to get done in a short time frame. Good luck man. Glad to hear the nego's did not all just fall apart like ours do on scope. Our co. showed meaningful movement on scope and when the union told them what it would take to get that kind of scope they yank right off the table, an example of as you say, fell apart. Were back the 18th of this month, hopefully the co. is ready to move this time.

 

[gulfcoast1]

Trump has a spiritual advisor?

Yes it was a pretty intense week. Once we passed our proposal on Monday there was some very good back and forth conversations on scope. We didn’t expect a written response from the company due to all the conversations and questions that needs to be clarified. Also keep in mind, once they get a scope proposal, they have to go back and cost everything out to see if things are still in their ballpark. So since this has to be done and will take until next meeting, the last day was used to tie up some mechanic issues that were still out there. So the week went about how I expected. Good news is, it didn’t all fall apart, which is always a possibility when it comes to scope.

CB can you say if the Powerstows have been brought up? This might be the next big battle on manpower. I think we should have it in writing that we get two people in the belly with them. Can you imagine how many jobs we would lose if the company started making us have one clerk or agent in the belly with the powerstow? It could mean a large amount of losses or not a lot of hiring for a long time if everyone is protected. Either way, I think we need something about powerstows in writing. What do you think?

 

[NYer]

CB can you say if the Powerstows have been brought up? This might be the next big battle on manpower. I think we should have it in writing that we get two people in the belly with them. Can you imagine how many jobs we would lose if the company started making us have one clerk or agent in the belly with the powerstow? It could mean a large amount of losses or not a lot of hiring for a long time if everyone is protected. Either way, I think we need something about powerstows in writing. What do you think?

That ship has sailed being it was the TWU which championed the PowerStow.

When they were tested in MIA, we questioned their use since it seemed they could be used to cut a man from a crew. The Local Officers at that time assured us we wouldn't lose any jobs.

While technically correct since there were no layoffs we immediately lost a crew member on each gate that had a PowerStow. Today, there are about 60 in MIA.

 

[Talos]

In DFW we have 2 belly guys, 3 drivers and a local man. Also a 6th man which I imagine will be eliminated. These powerstow belts are quite tall and a hassle if you are on the side of the belt pulling bags.If you are not 6 foot 3 and work a trip with 4-5 drivers due to late connects it's messy. Not a fan of powerstow.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Also keep in mind, once they get a scope proposal, they have to go back and cost everything out to see if things are still in their ballpark.

given the fact that aa's 'ballpark' is currently fluid in a good way and not stagnant/regressing...do you guys put their feet to the fire and remind them of their constant raising of revenue/profit guidance and parker's boastful "we'll never lose money again, we will be a $5 billion profit a year company"??

if mr glass tells you that aa's 'ballpark' is $9 over the span of a 5 year deal, do you ask him if aa is willing to add $1 to that, as it will now collect an additional $6 over that span?

without me knowing anything, i believe we'll get just about everything we want; save the lus insurance. it's just that parker and co. have decided to make us suffer a bit to get it. good luck.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

In DFW we have 2 belly guys, 3 drivers and a local man.

this was the norm on a narrowbody gate in ord during the late 80s. not only 6 guys and a c/c, but also 2 lunch relief p/t guys.

i don't work gates anymore, but in today's world in ord, there are 3 guys (2 belly/1local) and a c/c for each narrowbody gate. ramp connectors and additional belly guys (if needed) are sent from another area.

this is how united airlines did it's bid many years ago, until they realized they couldn't keep up with banks.

when former american west mangt. comes from sunny and sleepy phx to busy, weather-challenged intl. flight and bank-heavy ord...we'll see how this plays out.

 

[charlie Brown]

given the fact that aa's 'ballpark' is currently fluid in a good way and not stagnant/regressing...do you guys put their feet to the fire and remind them of their constant raising of revenue/profit guidance and parker's boastful "we'll never lose money again, we will be a $5 billion profit a year company"??

if mr glass tells you that aa's 'ballpark' is $9 over the span of a 5 year deal, do you ask him if aa is willing to add $1 to that, as it will now collect an additional $6 over that span?

without me knowing anything, i believe we'll get just about everything we want; save the lus insurance. it's just that parker and co. have decided to make us suffer a bit to get it. good luck.

You are correct, and believe me, we are always far apart on what the company wants to spend and what we feel we need. But it will eventually come together. But you have to always push this management team to spend more. We will get there. But of course they always low ball on every issue.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

keep pushing and if i'm a local leader involved in negotiations, i would harp on the low-balling to my members.

i don't believe that's out of line/outside of protocol. the company will always claim to be looking out for it's shareholders and financial health. to me, it's the angry members who have misplaced their anger, in regards to other issues...and the incumbents usually pay the price.

i'd have a good time in the talks, i would hold their feet to the fire and use parker's own words against them. in private, mr. glass has to be shaking his head as parker keeps undermining his low-ball efforts.

 

[swamt]

I agree with you Crema. I don't think the NC wants any details out on the pay rates as of yet, but I also agree to hold Parker to his words where on pay his words were Delta or United plus 7%, whomever is higher of the two. Matter fact I do believe he said this on film as well. You know we have heard some changes thru-out these nego's. Co. change D or U + 7% down to + 3%, the 4% raise that the mechanics and I believe all in this asso., and now looks as if the co. is trying to balk on the equity thing in some recent updates. When does this crap end??? Parker should be held to the promises he made, but we will see how much wiggle room this asso. allows him to get out of.

 

[Talos]

this was the norm on a narrowbody gate in ord during the late 80s. not only 6 guys and a c/c, but also 2 lunch relief p/t guys.

i don't work gates anymore, but in today's world in ord, there are 3 guys (2 belly/1local) and a c/c for each narrowbody gate. ramp connectors and additional belly guys (if needed) are sent from another area.

this is how united airlines did it's bid many years ago, until they realized they couldn't keep up with banks.

when former american west mangt. comes from sunny and sleepy phx to busy, weather-challenged intl. flight and bank-heavy ord...we'll see how this plays out.

Big operations like ORD amd DFW have lots of complications to sending help from multiple areas to work flights. Gate changes and the size of the AA hub make it hard. We are getting this dynamic manning I believe it's called. From what I've been told about it, DFW is not a good candidate for it. Seems like they try to get rid of jobs and create more instead.

 

[Talos]

You are correct, and believe me, we are always far apart on what the company wants to spend and what we feel we need. But it will eventually come together. But you have to always push this management team to spend more. We will get there. But of course they always low ball on every issue.

The company has enjoyed stretching this out and in the old days when profits were not always there you could accept it. With the way things are now its disgusting. Especially hearing Parker made 19 million.

 

[T5towbar]

That ship has sailed being it was the TWU which championed the PowerStow.

When they were tested in MIA, we questioned their use since it seemed they could be used to cut a man from a crew. The Local Officers at that time assured us we wouldn't lose any jobs.

While technically correct since there were no layoffs we immediately lost a crew member on each gate that had a PowerStow. Today, there are about 60 in MIA.

Yes. Powerstows will be pretty much everywhere. I've seen the first of them coming to my hub. How long they will last working wise will be the issue. But we are still short on manpower, and we have a crap ton of 900's with Telair's, (unless one is broken); that still wont make much of a difference, except working on the 800 and some of the 757-200. (rumor had it they might pull out the Telair out of the 900 - to save weight - so the Powerstow can take it place. We are used to working short anyway, and the Powerstow, who knows how it will affect us, since we work 2 and a Lead, unless the ROC sends additional help for a particular flight. It will probably be a headache for the GSE guys, since our equipment is on the olden variety, with new pieces trickling in every now and again, and equipment gets "dogged". But since we are the 'bastard" hub, It all depends on how well they work and how many they bring in. They will probably send more to the bigger hubs first. But the airlines will be getting more and more of these real soon. The excuse will probably be to reduce OJI's, and have a more "productive" crews to move around to other places where needed. Who knows???

 

[gulfcoast1]

In DFW we have 2 belly guys, 3 drivers and a local man. Also a 6th man which I imagine will be eliminated. These powerstow belts are quite tall and a hassle if you are on the side of the belt pulling bags.If you are not 6 foot 3 and work a trip with 4-5 drivers due to late connects it's messy. Not a fan of powerstow.

I thought it was 2 belly 2 drivers 1 local and the 6th man makes 6.

You are correct, and believe me, we are always far apart on what the company wants to spend and what we feel we need. But it will eventually come together. But you have to always push this management team to spend more. We will get there. But of course they always low ball on every issue.

I would like to know if the poewrstows are being addressed as far as manning goes. I really think we need two clerks or agents up there or should have the right to request that.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I agree with you Crema. I don't think the NC wants any details out on the pay rates as of yet, but I also agree to hold Parker to his words where on pay his words were Delta or United plus 7%, whomever is higher of the two. Matter fact I do believe he said this on film as well. You know we have heard some changes thru-out these nego's. Co. change D or U + 7% down to + 3%, the 4% raise that the mechanics and I believe all in this asso., and now looks as if the co. is trying to balk on the equity thing in some recent updates. When does this crap end??? Parker should be held to the promises he made, but we will see how much wiggle room this asso. allows him to get out of.

yes, the wage guessing game has been played. i'm convinced we will get TOS industry leading wages - i'm not so sure we can get a clause if anyone passes us up with wages - we get that automatic bump up too. not so sure that would happen either - unless ua and dl scale back their profit sharing.

i believe united is tops with TOS $33.30/hr, not counting differential of potentially .51/hr-.61/hr. as far as profits, ua seems cemented as the 3rd most profitable legacy carrrier, sometimes 4th of all carriers, as southwest has earned more in some quarters. given that..

...and now mix in aa's meager profit sharing along with a concession or two (medical, cc/lead language), i'd be disappointed if our TOS isn't around $36.00/hr.

by the way, 7% more than ua ($33.30/hr) comes to apprx. $35.50/hr. i don't feel that TOS $36.00/hr is out of line.