JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[CremaDiLimone]

We are getting this dynamic manning I believe it's called. From what I've been told about it, DFW is not a good candidate for it. Seems like they try to get rid of jobs and create more instead.

it seems as though they wish to eliminate 'specialized' jobs and become top-heavy with huge pools of workers being sent out to make up for the lost specialized shifts.

personally, i prefer to bid a shift where i know i'll be everyday, what c/c, every day centralized locker and cooking area in the same ready room.

the dynamic manning sounds like a lus thing, maybe picked up from america west. i'm of the belief that certain stations can't be run like a phx.

logistics,weather and volume vary.

large pools of workers assigned by one crew chief. too much power, too many slackers and azz-kissers and the new guy who brings in a beef sandwich, will watch the nfl playoff game, while the 30 year guy gets abused. c/c can manipulate the 'puck'...it's not random.

 

[swamt]

yes, the wage guessing game has been played. i'm convinced we will get TOS industry leading wages - i'm not so sure we can get a clause if anyone passes us up with wages - we get that automatic bump up too. not so sure that would happen either - unless ua and dl scale back their profit sharing.

i believe united is tops with TOS $33.30/hr, not counting differential of potentially .51/hr-.61/hr. as far as profits, ua seems cemented as the 3rd most profitable legacy carrrier, sometimes 4th of all carriers, as southwest has earned more in some quarters. given that..

...and now mix in aa's meager profit sharing along with a concession or two (medical, cc/lead language), i'd be disappointed if our TOS isn't around $36.00/hr.

by the way, 7% more than ua ($33.30/hr) comes to apprx. $35.50/hr. i don't feel that TOS $36.00/hr is out of line.

I agree with you 100%. 36 is not out of line and I hope you guys can get it. No reason not to get it at these times of record upon record earnings and now IS the time to get it. Good luck to you and all involved Crema, I hope all of us can get new JCBA and CBA's in 2018.

 

[NYer]

Yes. Powerstows will be pretty much everywhere. I've seen the first of them coming to my hub. How long they will last working wise will be the issue. But we are still short on manpower, and we have a crap ton of 900's with Telair's, (unless one is broken); that still wont make much of a difference, except working on the 800 and some of the 757-200. (rumor had it they might pull out the Telair out of the 900 - to save weight - so the Powerstow can take it place. We are used to working short anyway, and the Powerstow, who knows how it will affect us, since we work 2 and a Lead, unless the ROC sends additional help for a particular flight. It will probably be a headache for the GSE guys, since our equipment is on the olden variety, with new pieces trickling in every now and again, and equipment gets "dogged". But since we are the 'bastard" hub, It all depends on how well they work and how many they bring in. They will probably send more to the bigger hubs first. But the airlines will be getting more and more of these real soon. The excuse will probably be to reduce OJI's, and have a more "productive" crews to move around to other places where needed. Who knows???

You may be correct in that you may not see the PowerStow in large numbers or get them quickly. Since your crews are already down to the less than the minimum it seems the return on investment for them will be zero. In MIA, they cut a crew member from each crew which pays for each PowerStow in about 2 years.

 

[NYer]

yes, the wage guessing game has been played. i'm convinced we will get TOS industry leading wages - i'm not so sure we can get a clause if anyone passes us up with wages - we get that automatic bump up too. not so sure that would happen either - unless ua and dl scale back their profit sharing.

i believe united is tops with TOS $33.30/hr, not counting differential of potentially .51/hr-.61/hr. as far as profits, ua seems cemented as the 3rd most profitable legacy carrrier, sometimes 4th of all carriers, as southwest has earned more in some quarters. given that..

...and now mix in aa's meager profit sharing along with a concession or two (medical, cc/lead language), i'd be disappointed if our TOS isn't around $36.00/hr.

by the way, 7% more than ua ($33.30/hr) comes to apprx. $35.50/hr. i don't feel that TOS $36.00/hr is out of line.

UA is currently at $30.47 and won't make $33.30 until 2021( in Dec. at that).

You may see the wage go to 3% above UA ($31.38), then they'll tell us that the raise is larger because of the additional shift differentials. This is assuming DL doesn't pass everyone before there is a JCBA.

 

[WeAAsles]

yes, the wage guessing game has been played. i'm convinced we will get TOS industry leading wages - i'm not so sure we can get a clause if anyone passes us up with wages - we get that automatic bump up too. not so sure that would happen either - unless ua and dl scale back their profit sharing.

i believe united is tops with TOS $33.30/hr, not counting differential of potentially .51/hr-.61/hr. as far as profits, ua seems cemented as the 3rd most profitable legacy carrrier, sometimes 4th of all carriers, as southwest has earned more in some quarters. given that..

...and now mix in aa's meager profit sharing along with a concession or two (medical, cc/lead language), i'd be disappointed if our TOS isn't around $36.00/hr.

by the way, 7% more than ua ($33.30/hr) comes to apprx. $35.50/hr. i don't feel that TOS $36.00/hr is out of line.

Crema as usual your numbers are quite reasonable even if some people may become confused since you’re speaking about end of agreement rather than DOS.

Ive actually grown to consider that maybe your numbers are now too “measly” to not be reevaluated.

Waiting to get UAL Ramp numbers but DL TOS Ramper makes about the same as me with all the extras so $65,000. They just got a PS formula worth 10% of their gross so about $72,000. Now if the new formula was in place their PS would have been about 15% or $9,000 so $74,500 (Conservative actually)

Our PS formula is so sub par that absolutely the original 7% above line is absolutely reasonable. From there I’d still fly with 2, 2, 2, 2.5, 2.5 on a 5 year deal.

Now if you look at the last Roadshow video for Pilots conversation Parker did discuss the Delta PS changes and DID acknowledge the changes and that AA wages would need to be adjusted to account for that. His intention still being lower PS higher wages (I agree with that formula too)

 

[Jester]

it seems as though they wish to eliminate 'specialized' jobs and become top-heavy with huge pools of workers being sent out to make up for the lost specialized shifts.

personally, i prefer to bid a shift where i know i'll be everyday, what c/c, every day centralized locker and cooking area in the same ready room.

the dynamic manning sounds like a lus thing, maybe picked up from america west. i'm of the belief that certain stations can't be run like a phx.

logistics,weather and volume vary.

large pools of workers assigned by one crew chief. too much power, too many slackers and azz-kissers and the new guy who brings in a beef sandwich, will watch the nfl playoff game, while the 30 year guy gets abused. c/c can manipulate the 'puck'...it's not random.

Based upon my observations of the AA work habits, it is probably an America West thing what's being referred to as "dynamic manning". It has been generally assumed one could be assigned pretty much anywhere, but over time we did eventually bid zones or assignments, but that was subject to change based upon operational needs.

Probably the greatest difference would be the expectation of crew chiefs (leads) to be assigned into teams (crews) to replace part-time agents at the end of their shifts. As leads were full-time, and not enough flights for the number of leads by the afternoon, they were reconstituted into crews on a routine daily basis. That would be a "dynamic" use of staffing resources for which I would expect AA CC's to balk.

 

[Talos]

I thought it was 2 belly 2 drivers 1 local and the 6th man makes 6.



I would like to know if the poewrstows are being addressed as far as manning goes. I really think we need two clerks or agents up there or should have the right to request that.

You're right, the 6th man is the third driver or stays on the gate if there is transfer support or a light trip. Can't be the 6th man if you're the 7th.

 

[Talos]

it seems as though they wish to eliminate 'specialized' jobs and become top-heavy with huge pools of workers being sent out to make up for the lost specialized shifts.

personally, i prefer to bid a shift where i know i'll be everyday, what c/c, every day centralized locker and cooking area in the same ready room.

the dynamic manning sounds like a lus thing, maybe picked up from america west. i'm of the belief that certain stations can't be run like a phx.

logistics,weather and volume vary.

large pools of workers assigned by one crew chief. too much power, too many slackers and azz-kissers and the new guy who brings in a beef sandwich, will watch the nfl playoff game, while the 30 year guy gets abused. c/c can manipulate the 'puck'...it's not random.

Not unfamiliar with that and hate seeing it when some people work twice as much as others. Don't know how this dynamic manning will fit with a place as big as DFW.

 

[T5towbar]

Crema as usual your numbers are quite reasonable even if some people may become confused since you’re speaking about end of agreement rather than DOS.

Ive actually grown to consider that maybe your numbers are now too “measly” to not be reevaluated.

Waiting to get UAL Ramp numbers but DL TOS Ramper makes about the same as me with all the extras so $65,000. They just got a PS formula worth 10% of their gross so about $72,000. Now if the new formula was in place their PS would have been about 15% or $9,000 so $74,500 (Conservative actually)

Our PS formula is so sub par that absolutely the original 7% above line is absolutely reasonable. From there I’d still fly with 2, 2, 2, 2.5, 2.5 on a 5 year deal.

Now if you look at the last Roadshow video for Pilots conversation Parker did discuss the Delta PS changes and DID acknowledge the changes and that AA wages would need to be adjusted to account for that. His intention still being lower PS higher wages (I agree with that formula too)

Don't know what our numbers will be till probably next week.
Hoping that it will be the same or a bit more than last year (5.9%). But we took some big hits this year..........

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Ive actually grown to consider that maybe your numbers are now too “measly” to not be reevaluated.

this nonsense falls on parker. stalling may be a good strategy in a bad cycle, where the unions want stability and may settle for less...stalling during unprecedented boom times only keeps upping the ante, as DL and UA have already forced aa's hand with the FAs/pilots and have and will likely do us the same favor.

looking forward, aa will have no other choice but to double it's dividend and hopefully the BOD will turn the screws on parker to get this done and have fixed costs. i also believe (i hope i'm wrong) that DL is done with wages for awhile. they hit the magical $30/hr mark and have the most generous profit sharing program to cover any whining.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Based upon my observations of the AA work habits, it is probably an America West thing what's being referred to as "dynamic manning". It has been generally assumed one could be assigned pretty much anywhere, but over time we did eventually bid zones or assignments, but that was subject to change based upon operational needs.

Probably the greatest difference would be the expectation of crew chiefs (leads) to be assigned into teams (crews) to replace part-time agents at the end of their shifts. As leads were full-time, and not enough flights for the number of leads by the afternoon, they were reconstituted into crews on a routine daily basis. That would be a "dynamic" use of staffing resources for which I would expect AA CC's to balk.

the company covers itself by including the word, 'flex' in your bid shift. it's rarely invoked...the lus or america west way(s) have already got many laa crew chiefs developing a plan B.

where can i bid where i will not be required to do physical work? the wheels are already turning, as we've been told this c/c-lead language change is a fait accompli.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

UA is currently at $30.47 and won't make $33.30 until 2021( in Dec. at that).

You may see the wage go to 3% above UA ($31.38), then they'll tell us that the raise is larger because of the additional shift differentials. This is assuming DL doesn't pass everyone before there is a JCBA.

we'll see. we may be getting shift differential...as we once knew it and ua gets.

knowing what DL earns and adding in their generous profit sharing, $32.25/hr for us on DOS is a deal breaker. no go. if the company threw in a robust signing bonus, then i'd listen.

 

[Kev3188]

I also believe (i hope i'm wrong) that DL is done with wages for awhile. they hit the magical $30/hr mark and have the most generous profit sharing program to cover any whining.

Nailed it. The company always cites our PS program as a response to wage/working condition issues.

 

[swamt]

this nonsense falls on parker. stalling may be a good strategy in a bad cycle, where the unions want stability and may settle for less...stalling during unprecedented boom times only keeps upping the ante, as DL and UA have already forced aa's hand with the FAs/pilots and have and will likely do us the same favor.

looking forward, aa will have no other choice but to double it's dividend and hopefully the BOD will turn the screws on parker to get this done and have fixed costs. i also believe (i hope i'm wrong) that DL is done with wages for awhile. they hit the magical $30/hr mark and have the most generous profit sharing program to cover any whining.

Not too sure if I would believe that the co. will just automatically do you guys the same favor as they did for the pilots and the F/A's. Our companies excuse to us on retro was "you guys are not pilots". We know we are not pilots, however we are all employees of Southwest and will be treated with the same amount of respect. They already proved they can pay full retro as a bonus with the pilots, and now they will have to do the same with their mechanics. Give us the same respect as they give other employees, period.

 

[WeAAsles]

this nonsense falls on parker. stalling may be a good strategy in a bad cycle, where the unions want stability and may settle for less...stalling during unprecedented boom times only keeps upping the ante, as DL and UA have already forced aa's hand with the FAs/pilots and have and will likely do us the same favor.

looking forward, aa will have no other choice but to double it's dividend and hopefully the BOD will turn the screws on parker to get this done and have fixed costs. i also believe (i hope i'm wrong) that DL is done with wages for awhile. they hit the magical $30/hr mark and have the most generous profit sharing program to cover any whining.

The sad part is that after years now of record profits we still have those not seeing the long term growing Forrest through the trees. Thankfully I don’t believe any of those individuals are at the negotiating table though. And Tax Reform only added more Rocket Fuel to the mix.

Chicken Little has been put on a spit and is being slow roasted.

And no it’s not looking as if Delta is making any further wage announcements perhaps for the rest of this year or at least till we move the needle now.