JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[CremaDiLimone]

Just going by what I can see and understand I would have to vote no. I do not expect a TA with no concessions, but this seems like a job killer for the longterm and I agree with Weez there should be some stations reopened even if just a few. I also think $1600 more in insurance for the average IAM employee is too much.

The TWU people I hear are saying a lot like it so it might pass if we vote. I don't think we will though.

What I do think is it sounds like the company wants to get this done and this could move both sides closer to a deal. The Association letter said it sounded like they were getting close. That is the main positive I see in this. The members are restless. They company is restless. Maybe that is what we need to get this done finally.

What I think will be difficult is resolving the IAM medical. I cannot believe the company mentions $1600 like it is a small amount. I would not find it to be a small amount. I would not know how to recommend a resolution and how to sell it to IAM members. That will be difficult.

Opening up more stations and keeping more jobs might change my no to a yes. I can understand that why an IAM member would feel differently. Of course I will want to see what their final wage offer is. If it is only .74 cents then 2% a year then that would be a no also because DL and UA profit sharing would put them ahead of us on compensation and that is not industry leading.

the company is just pushing back after the negative fall-out from the bad cop. the wages weren't quantified, unlike the company figuring out to the last penny what lus will need to pony up. also, no mention of laa getting their cc vs. lead language. they must have forgotten that part.

personally, i don't like it on the whole (i expect more compensation) and just about every other 25-35 yr. fsc i know, rejected what the company floated out.

ua is big here and we know how ua distributed signing bonuses and that was also a big sticking point. the amount and the fact that a 1 yr fsc will get the same as a 35 yr fsc.

the buyout was also disappointing. they will still have 70 y/o fscs limping to work to an easy shift; earning $80k falling out of bed.

 

[Talos]

Hate to say it but there was more information in that one page summary from the Company than what I have seen from the Association in the past 3 years. Not to say that I will give it a blanket support, but there are some good things, so-so things, and unknown things with the Devil in the details.

I would like to see an actual list of stations to be kept and a list of stations which "potentially" (yeah, right) could be outsourced, along with numbers for eliminating or adding future stations.

I would agree with Tim in saying that if offered to the Membership (assuming no bombshells in the details), it would pass by a sizable majority. I think Management knows this and releasing this information would be a tactic to put pressure on the Association to close the deal.

It was a lot more infromative due to the Johnsen fellows unstable appearance. It's one of the problems this Association has had and that's communication. At DFW I've never heard a good word said about the Association, but plenty of negative remarks. If they communicated better this may not have been the case. Of course you don't negotiate in public but a little bit more info would have been nice. Like you said Jester, some good things some not so good such as outsourcing. Company sending in Johnsen maybe had a unknown purpose. Sure was strange reading about his melt down. That really is strange for the head of labor relations.Maybe they should take him to the sunshine rehab house for treatment.

 

[Talos]

He isn’t labor relations.

Whoever is the head of labor relations has to report to this guy. At least that's what his long list of responsibilities stated. Makes you wonder why he was in the room. Maybe trying to earn his 30 million.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/about-us/leadership-bios/stephen-johnson.jsp

He is head of Corporate Affaires.

Yes... he is head of "Corporate Affaires"... and like most of his kind, he is having an 'affair with the corporation'!

The statement that was sent out, is just the same old message we heard during the BK years -- They just simply want us all to "Lower our expectations"...
so that they may RAISE theirs...

>SPIT<

 

[cltrat]

All they achieved at least on the LUS side is further piss the membership off

 

[WeAAsles]

Did you miss the part where I said I would vote no in the current form? I did not say this would be the final TA and I did say I doubted the Association would even send this out for a vote in the current form. I also said I did not see why an IAM member would vote yes to a $1600 increase. Did you miss that part? I don't know how much extra it actually is, as with my other points, I was quoting the information the company put out.

You don't have to convince me. As it stands again, I am a no vote. There are a lot of TWU who say they like it though. And again, the main thing I think is good is that I think this could move the company closer to a better agreement.

Ok gulfcoast I don’t know where you’re getting your gauge that you say “There are a lot of TWU who say they like it though”?

This “dump” on us was only made yesterday. I haven’t heard one person yet say they like it? I just looked at 3 FB Group pages and only one is even talking about it. All in the negative except one POS who said “Buy me out”

An ex Crew Chief of mine read it on the bus yesterday and when he got to all the outsourcing at the bottom he was a no way.

Topped out Clerks/Agents make $65,000 a year. If any of them are enticed to sign because of the 3 Grand then that’s it. I’m calling them out on here and to their face
“Are you that pathetic”

 

[WeAAsles]

I find your annual income projection for this year highly exaggerated and inflated. Unless your status has changed, I can recall you are a part-timer, even a full-timer working 6 days a week can only work around 64 hours a week under the current policy, and frankly, I just don't see you having the motivation to put in that kind of hours.

That guy also said he works lots of extra hours so he can travel. Even with all the OT you’re not going to make $130,000 and be able to take off to travel. You’re basically going to have to be at work around the clock all the time to come close to that kind of scratch.

A guy working that much? Now that’s the guy who really needs to get a life, sad.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I find your annual income projection for this year highly exaggerated and inflated. Unless your status has changed, I can recall you are a part-timer, even a full-timer working 6 days a week can only work around 64 hours a week under the current policy, and frankly, I just don't see you having the motivation to put in that kind of hours.

Huh? I been getting 80 hours a week just like this week even though im off today. Break 100 hours some weeks.

Dude, im not the only one. There are guys that will break over $150,000 but they live at the airport. I live 3 miles away from ord and dont waste any time on the road and usually take 1 day off.

 

[Kev3188]

That’s what that 3k for everyone is all about
No vote for me on just that
But as weez said I don’t see anything with that tripe ever getting out for a vote

I mean I’m middle ground senority no way I should get what that 35yr guy gets

Respectfully disagree. For a bonus itself, it should be equal...and it shouldn’t be taxed as supplemental income either, but that's a rant for another day.

Let’s say it was a 5 year deal. If you broke it down it would come out to about .29 cents per hour FT 40 hours.

I can’t stand how they’re throwing out the cash grab to try and make us all lift up our skirts and bend over.

And I knew their would be a buyout. I’ve been saying that for awhile now.

Can't fault 'em for trying; it seems to work most of the time.

So the Company “claims” that the average IAM member will see a cost increase on their Medical of $1600.00 per year.

That comes out to .77 Cents per hour.

I have to admit I just love how they write that the Medical costs are “In line” with other large Corporations. Uh who gives a chit?

What kind of “immediate” wage increases are being offfered to offset some of that additional expense Mr Johnsen?

“””””Competitive medical plans consistent with the industry”””””

Association members would participate in the American medical plans as all other team members do. These are highly competitive plans that provide cost sharing that is in line with or better than other large companies. Average annual out-of-pocket costs (what you pay at the doctor + what’s deducted from your paycheck each pay period) for legacy US team members would increase by $1,600/year. All plans have yearly out-of-pocket maximums that cap what team members pay in the event of a catastrophic illness. Moving from the legacy US plans to the American plans, as all other team members have done, provides more contemporary coverage for things like free preventative care/screenings, infertility treatment, behavioral therapy treatment for autistic children (ABA therapy), family/marriage counseling and hearing aids.

Have they shown everyone the different policies at other carriers? There's several at mine (DL) alone.

I would like to see an actual list of stations to be kept and a list of stations which "potentially" (yeah, right) could be outsourced, along with numbers for eliminating or adding future stations.

+1

I keep coming back to the line about "some of the 40..." Well, how many is "some?" In theory, it only needs to be 3-4. Thats a far cry from the tacit implication in the post.

Update

Regarding the 9% into the 401k, 5% auto and 4% if you put 4% in, I must show some math. First, let me say, I personally have a problem with letting the company stuff money back in their pockets and charging us for doing so. As for math. Employee A makes $80,000 and puts in 4% to get 4% company match and gets auto 5% match. In 10 years earning 7% per year, they would add $153749 to their 401k. Employee B continues to get 5.5% of their top out pay into the pension, and makes $80,000 and adds 4% into their 401k, gets no match, doesn't get 5% auto either. Their 401k in 10 years would be $47307 and their pension would have added $750 per month at retirement.

Employee A's $153749 taken out at a 4% clip would get them $512 per month.
Employee B's $47307 taken out at a 4% clip would get them $157 per month plus the $750 per month for the pension. In other words, Employee B would take home $395 per month more than Employee A. Note: Employee A had 13% of their total wages going into their 401k, whereas Employee B only had 5.5% of their wages up to 40 hours per week for the pension and 4% of their total wages into their 401k. The Company put no money back in their pocket for employee B.

P. Rez

All well and good until the IAM decides to adjust payouts again.

Most people would rather have their money now.

The Assoc proposed to protect and OWN ALL WORK currently being performed in the cities where we are doing it now...(40) Their “ snapshot theory”. That’s Keeping catering..and cargo. add cargo to stations, Own regional work, Own deicing,Own Lavs and Water, Own turn and overnight cleaning

IAM sure your NC has made a huge effort/business case to show why having this work done inhouse is better, right P. Rez?

 

[Kev3188]

Huh? I been getting 80 hours a week just like this week even though im off today. Break 100 hours some weeks.

Dude, im not the only one. There are guys that will break over $150,000 but they live at the airport. I live 3 miles away from ord and dont waste any time on the road and usually take 1 day off.

Man, I like planes, and I like money, but not that much!

 

[WeAAsles]

$1,600???? Not sure what plans this is referring to but I believe the AA 80% plan VS the 80% plan the IAM currently has for full family coverage is approx $540 a month MORE. That is over $6,400 more a year out of pocket JUST IN PREMIUMS!!! That is a 10% paycut for full time top of scale LUS employees. The percentage is much much greater as you go throughout the pay scale.
I hope everyone reads and Asks questions of what this letter actually says. But know one thing as you read....this is a company PROPOSAL. It’s NOT a Tentative Agreement.
Contract out catering.....no increase to cargo....keeping cargo in HUBS.....( what about non hub cities where we currently do cargo?). Lose jobs through ATTRITION.....that means...when you leave so does the job or work you were doing. When you leave, a vendor replaces you. They can sub it all out little by little. Piece by piece until All Current employees are gone....then it is entirely done by vendors. No mention of part time cap. Deicing would be gone.
Retirement.....get educated on it. Then decide what you think is best. Ask questions!! And not just from one person. AND THE HEALTHCARE!!!!!
According to what I heard... The Assoc proposed to protect and OWN ALL WORK currently being performed in the cities where we are doing it now...(40) Their “ snapshot theory”. That’s Keeping catering..and cargo. add cargo to stations, Own regional work, Own deicing,Own Lavs and Water, Own turn and overnight cleaning Etc etc Have language for profit share,sign on bonus, buyout, annual pay inceases, top of scale pay, more vacation, more sick, more holidays etc. AND KEEP THE LUS HEALTHCARE FOR ALL ASSOC MEMBERS!!!
Many of this was in the proposal to the company (I believe in bullet point format, with no specifics) that was made in DEC 2015.

AA has been raising the price of their Value option pushing more and more people into optioning for the Standard Plan instead.

 

[WeAAsles]

Have they shown everyone the different policies at other carriers? There's several at mine (DL) alone

All well and good until the IAM decides to adjust payouts again.

Most people would rather have their money now.

Of course not. And why we’ve been using Social Media to great effect to try and find out that information. I just posted our rates (Delivered to me by public US Mail)

True but your 401k adjusts as well and you know that (same chit)

I hate the “most people” comment. Please stop using it as you have no proof of “most people”

And you’re a fool to take your money now unless you have no choice in a 401k. Otherwise you need to leave it alone and let your nest egg grow for its intended purpose, your Retirement.

And BTW I hope we don’t get into this exhausting topic once again but P. Rez has also done calculations with cuts to prove his points. His “””MATH””” has been sound against others “””EMOTIONS”””

And I still subscribe to the idea of as many stool legs as one can find.

 

[WeAAsles]

Man, I like planes, and I like money, but not that much!

That guy just described the “prime” example guy I said I NEVER wanted to be or become when I hired on 23 years ago.

80 to 100 hours a week? 1 day off? 3 miles from the Airport? And he still says he is going to have to work till he’s 70?

Very very very sad.

 

[WeAAsles]

That sounds like a SWA mechanic, I am a lead, worked 400 hours of overtime last year, some of that was double and triple time, and I grossed $136,000.

Exactly. Anyway who cares. The guy is rich and special and has the whole World on a string, sittin on a Rainbow.

 

[Kev3188]

And you’re a fool to take your money now unless you have no choice in a 401k. Otherwise you need to leave it alone and let your nest egg grow for its intended purpose, your Retirement.

My mistake. I assumed everyone here would know I was talking within the context of deferred compensation.

That said, the benefits for a DC plan far outweigh the benefits of a DB plan- especially for those coworkers with a long time horizon.

That guy just described the “prime” example guy I said I NEVER wanted to be or become when I hired on 23 years ago.

80 to 100 hours a week? 1 day off? 3 miles from the Airport? And he still says he is going to have to work till he’s 70?

Very very very sad.

I intentionally live close to mine, but 40/week is plenty.